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  1. #31
    Mouzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Bawls View Post
    Not really a democracy, just like U.S in no longer a Democracy
    More like a Polyarchy. I would say the majority of the worlds super powers are governed in this fashion.

    I'm sure a lot of people think my outlook is crazy talk..
    But maybe they can tell me who owns the Federal reserve.
    I'll give you a hint: Not any government we know of.
    If I recalled the last time I looked at an Israeli textbook, the United States is a representative republic (in a large sense), which means that states run themselves under the guidance of the national government. There is a congressman/woman from each states for each states. Each states have their own laws and rights, each states got their own military and militia, the national government's arm forces protect the states and fight at home and oversea. The United States is a democracy because of it being said so under the consitution. Be surprised that even countries like the USSR were Republics are well.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear Jew View Post
    If I recalled the last time I looked at an Israeli textbook, the United States is a representative republic (in a large sense), which means that states run themselves under the guidance of the national government. There is a congressman/woman from each states for each states. Each states have their own laws and rights, each states got their own military and militia, the national government's arm forces protect the states and fight at home and oversea. The United States is a democracy because of it being said so under the consitution. Be surprised that even countries like the USSR were Republics are well.
    The Constitution has been getting raped for years now..

    The Patriot act pretty much shits on the 4th and 6th amendment.
    Also show anywhere in the Constitution that states that Americans have to pay federal income tax.

    Here is a little quote from Woodrow Wilson.

    "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve act into existence.

    Mr. Wilson was persuaded to sign the Federal reserve act by an industrialist by the name of J.P. Morgan.

    I think you need to realize that the people that are in control here only serve one master, and that would be money.
    Presidential elections are more like auctions now.
    The highest bidder gets into office. Whoever raises enough money, and has the interest of the banker cartels ideology become Presidents.
    The days of for the people by the people are long gone,
    and the proof of that is our failing world economy.
    Last edited by Assalamu alaikum; 08-07-2011 at 10:27 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alen View Post
    I don't quite recall ever mentioning Slovenia being the best or something nor did I ever even promote it as an exemplary country.



    If movie production becomes the parameter for judging a country's entertainment, then I might as well give up.



    I never took alliances into account, I was just stating that the USA's military domination isn't as great as one might think. It's not what it was after WWII.



    Granted, the US did practically start democracy. But if history is to become a way of judging countries, we might as well start hating on everyone.



    Do you have any clue to what extent religion is incorporated in the USA's educational system, politics, etc.?



    I might just as well leave the debate section until the summer's over or until people start realizing that providing contrasting arguments isn't bitching.
    Neither did I, but you made it look as if we had a bad quality of life.

    How do you judge entertainment then?

    We are still #1

    Not much, when we learned about religion in high school we studied how they were made, what they did, where they are today. That's it, there is no "religious bashing"

    There's a difference between "contrasting arguments" and bashing, you were bashing us.
    Last edited by nevs666; 08-07-2011 at 10:54 PM.
    "If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest."

    -Benjamin Franklin
    ^One of our (our as in American no offence to non Americans) Founding Fathers and one of my personal heroes.

  4. #34
    Mouzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Bawls View Post
    The Constitution has been getting raped for years now..

    The Patriot act pretty much shits on the 4th and 6th amendment.
    Also show anywhere in the Constitution that states that Americans have to pay federal income tax.

    Here is a little quote from Woodrow Wilson.

    "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve act into existence.

    Mr. Wilson was persuaded to sign the Federal reserve act by an industrialist by the name of J.P. Morgan.

    I think you need to realize that the people that are in control here only serve one master, and that would be money.
    Presidential elections are more like auctions now.
    The highest bidder gets into office. Whoever raises enough money, and has the interest of the banker cartels ideology become Presidents.
    The days of for the people by the people are long gone,
    and the proof of that is our failing world economy.

    Maybe, but I think this is what comes in, "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

  5. #35
    Assalamu alaikum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear Jew View Post
    Maybe, but I think this is what comes in, "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
    Oh I would agree with that 100% if the 16th amendment was actually ratified in 1913. There certainly was a campaign to do so, that is all well documented,
    but out of the 48 states at the time, only 2 states truly ratified the 16th amendment. Article V in the constitution states that you need 3/4 states in the union to ratify an amendment.

    As I was saying, the Constitution is pretty much toilet paper.
    Has been for a long time.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevs666 View Post
    Neither did I, but you made it look as if we had a bad quality of life.

    How do you judge entertainment then?

    We are still #1

    Not much, when we learned about religion in high school we studied how they were made, what they did, where they are today. That's it, there is no "religious bashing"

    There's a difference between "contrasting arguments" and bashing, you were bashing us.
    "Entertainment consists of any activity which provides a diversion or permits people to amuse themselves in their leisure time." If you only judge entertainment through movies than the USA is a doomed nation.

    If he were to be bashing the US then who would go beyond the points he was debating against. He was simply identifying the points put across in favor of the US and saying how they could be deemed false. If you think that is bashing then you have much to learn.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alen View Post
    Define "entertainment" and do provide at least some links to back that up, I sincerely doubt that's true
    A simple alliance of three Asian superpowers > American military
    If by freedom you mean religion bashing everything about - sure. More often than not European countries end up being on top of indexes relating to freedom or overall wellbeing.

    And no, standards of living can be just as high in countries with larger populations provided that the country is able to support the larger population in the same manner as is the smaller one supported.

    And I'm not bitching about America, I'm more than happy to admit that it's most definitely one of the best countries to live in, most likely the most influential & powerful one in the "western world" and most certainly the one I would love to end up in. I just don't really like the clearly fucked up & trigger-happy yahoo view RJ was presenting.
    Entertainment?

    Music, Video games, movies, etc. etc.

    No denying that America's entertainment industry is #1 in sales and such. But quality is always opinionated. I prefer japanese anime to american tv, but thats just me.


    Freedom i'd say is better in America because of opportunities and less governmental interference vs. Europe. However in Asia you can start up a country a lot easier, but the censorpship of random content is outrageous.

    Freedom is really specific for which, as restrictions/regulations are neccesary but sometimes overdone.


    America's military is probably #1 by its own, although with the addition of such massive scale weapons / no new massive war upon which developement rapidly occurs, it can only be said that as first strike, America is probably #1.

    Economy........somehow America defies logic with debt.

    I wouldn't say America is #1, I wouldn't say any country is, but its deffinitely at the top.
    Last edited by Empire; 08-08-2011 at 01:12 AM.


  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Entertainment?

    Music, Video games, movies, etc. etc.

    No denying that America's entertainment industry is #1 in sales and such. But quality is always opinionated. I prefer japanese anime to american tv, but thats just me.
    No denying that, but production/sales can't be objectively considered a measure of a country's entertainment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Freedom i'd say is better in America because of opportunities and less governmental interference vs. Europe. However in Asia you can start up a country a lot easier, but the censorpship of random content is outrageous.

    Freedom is really specific for which, as restrictions/regulations are neccesary but sometimes overdone.
    Whilst America may be one of the countries that can be considered to have great civil rights and all, its economical & political scene don't quite reflect the freedom several other countries have. Not to mention that it still doesn't have the same degree of media freedom as several other countries (a few European ones included).

    Also note that you can't compare the US to EU or Europe, we aren't united in the same manner nor do we even have the same laws. There may be some guidelines, set rules etc. but for the most part each country follows its own system leading to a plethora of different laws affecting freedom. Overall though, I believe that there aren't that few indexes with at least a few European countries rival the US levels of different "freedoms", quite a few times also surpassing them. Not saying the US isn't somewhere on top though, ofc it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    America's military is probably #1 by its own, although with the addition of such massive scale weapons / no new massive war upon which developement rapidly occurs, it can only be said that as first strike, America is probably #1.
    I completely agree with that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Economy........somehow America defies logic with debt.

    I wouldn't say America is #1, I wouldn't say any country is, but its deffinitely at the top.
    ...and with that. Though it's on at the top by itself, as many indexes would suggest

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Bawls View Post
    Oh I would agree with that 100% if the 16th amendment was actually ratified in 1913. There certainly was a campaign to do so, that is all well documented,
    but out of the 48 states at the time, only 2 states truly ratified the 16th amendment. Article V in the constitution states that you need 3/4 states in the union to ratify an amendment.

    As I was saying, the Constitution is pretty much toilet paper.
    Has been for a long time.
    It's acutally, the 9th amendment if I recalled.

  10. #40
    Assalamu alaikum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear Jew View Post
    It's acutally, the 9th amendment if I recalled.
    Yes I know what you quoted was the 9th amendment,
    what was attempting to be changed regarding how citizens were taxed federally was the 16th Amendment.
    I was simply using your statement to prove a point.
    Yes the 9th amendment does state that certain laws can be added,
    but the point I was making is that though this is true,
    Article V of the Constitution states that at least 3/4 of the states would have to ratify this certain law in order for it to take affect to be legitimately Constitutional.
    At the time there were 48 states so that would mean at least 36 states would have to vote this law in,
    only 2 states did.
    Last edited by Assalamu alaikum; 08-08-2011 at 02:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post


    "Entertainment consists of any activity which provides a diversion or permits people to amuse themselves in their leisure time." If you only judge entertainment through movies than the USA is a doomed nation.

    If he were to be bashing the US then who would go beyond the points he was debating against. He was simply identifying the points put across in favor of the US and saying how they could be deemed false. If you think that is bashing then you have much to learn.
    The U.S is doomed because of movies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alen View Post
    Congratz on losing your AAA credit rating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alen View Post
    Congratz on being the #1 country in terms of debt. You even surpass the EU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alen View Post
    If by #1 you mean the #1 in terms of obesity ... yeah, I'd agree.
    What he said was completely irrelevant and unneeded, instead of ignoring it he escalated it and blew it out of proportion, RJ didn't even try to escalate the argument he tried to defuse the situation, and if you think that those things aren't bashing us it is YOU that has much to learn.
    "If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest."

    -Benjamin Franklin
    ^One of our (our as in American no offence to non Americans) Founding Fathers and one of my personal heroes.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Bawls View Post
    Yes I know what you quoted was the 9th amendment,
    what was attempting to be changed regarding how citizens were taxed federally was the 16th Amendment.
    I was simply using your statement to prove a point.
    Yes the 9th amendment does state that certain laws can be added,
    but the point I was making is that though this is true,
    Article V of the Constitution states that at least 3/4 of the states would have to ratify this certain law in order for it to take affect to be legitimately Constitutional.
    At the time there were 48 states so that would mean at least 36 states would have to vote this law in,
    only 2 states did.
    Not true, it can be voted by the house too, "Amendments may be proposed by either two-thirds of both houses of the United States Congress or by a national convention. This convention can be assembled at the request of the legislatures of at least two-thirds of the several states. To become part of the Constitution, amendments must then be ratified either by approval of the legislatures of three-fourths of the states or ratifying conventions held in three-fourths of the states. Congress has discretion as to which method of ratification should be used. Any amendment so ratified becomes a valid part of the constitution, provided that no state "shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the senate," without its consent."

  13. #43
    Assalamu alaikum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear Jew View Post
    Not true, it can be voted by the house too, "Amendments may be proposed by either two-thirds of both houses of the United States Congress or by a national convention. This convention can be assembled at the request of the legislatures of at least two-thirds of the several states. To become part of the Constitution, amendments must then be ratified either by approval of the legislatures of three-fourths of the states or ratifying conventions held in three-fourths of the states. Congress has discretion as to which method of ratification should be used. Any amendment so ratified becomes a valid part of the constitution, provided that no state "shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the senate," without its consent."


    trolllolollll 36 states ratified the 16th amendment anyway. Why didn't you just bring that up?
    Would have saved you some typing.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevs666 View Post
    The U.S is doomed because of movies?





    What he said was completely irrelevant and unneeded, instead of ignoring it he escalated it and blew it out of proportion, RJ didn't even try to escalate the argument he tried to defuse the situation, and if you think that those things aren't bashing us it is YOU that has much to learn.
    If that is your only past time then yes USA is doomed.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevs666 View Post
    Neither did I, but you made it look as if we had a bad quality of life.

    How do you judge entertainment then?

    We are still #1

    Not much, when we learned about religion in high school we studied how they were made, what they did, where they are today. That's it, there is no "religious bashing"

    There's a difference between "contrasting arguments" and bashing, you were bashing us.
    I was pointing out objective facts, the interpretation of those facts is up to you. If it seems like I was posting only negative things - guess what - I was. With the intention of trying to provoke RJ into posting some of the positive aspects (which he did not, harr harr). When it comes to bashing: already forgotten the recent case of the kid who didn't want to pray on his graduation day or something? Forgot the case where the father lost custody because he was agnostic? Forgot that pretty much every oath in the US mentions some aspect of religion? Religion is integrated to such a degree in the US that I doubt you would even know what an agnostic / atheistic nation looks like.

    And bashing is by definition "severe criticism" whereas my points never severely criticized, they even admitted to the US being (among) the most influential & powerful countries and most definitely somewhere among the top ones overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by nevs666 View Post
    What he said was completely irrelevant and unneeded, instead of ignoring it he escalated it and blew it out of proportion, RJ didn't even try to escalate the argument he tried to defuse the situation, and if you think that those things aren't bashing us it is YOU that has much to learn.
    What I was doing was trying to get RJ to provide some backed up arguments or some actual facts. No country-ranking index would put the US on the first place overall.

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