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  1. #16
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    Oi, ther was NO conspiracy in 9/11. get over it. The CIA trained Al Qeada among other "terriost" organazations. Ever hear of the school of the americas? look it up, quite intresting. in theory Zien, theres nothing wrong with communism, its the leaders become corrupted and make it more towards a dictatorship. (Ex. USSR in its later years, Cuba, etc) But, the native americans and native africans both were mainly Communist, albiet thats not what they called it but thats what they were. Communism isnt this great evil that everyone needs to fear, communism and "democracy" *Cough* republics *cough* can live in peace together.

    And the reason the USSR (CCCP) fell wasnt because of the wait of the USA, their standing army (Infantry, Mech. Divisions) were to large to support during a time of peace.

    Uk.

  2. #17
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    Sniper, there's a search engine called Google, use it.

    And like Unknown said, we trained them, we equiped them... During the Afganistani/Sovietic War, we messed up big time.

    Yea, I know in the roots, that communism isn't "bad", but their understanding in social economics destroys basically everything in your budget, its just mass spending on welfare projects, while deriving from an income from nowhere. Communism doesn't tax their citizens, which in a way its good for its people, but not for the nation.

    Capitalism works, look at USA, their budget is unmatched, and will be unmatched, for Decades. Until China becomes a Capitalist nation also. Then we will probably beaten by them.

  3. #18
    Zen's Avatar
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    Well, i mean look at our current economy, its kinda fucked up because we did this to ourselves because of the way our system is setup. Now, the best type of society would be some combination of the two. I respect your views zienland, even if we dont agree. because unlike most people ik, you can actually back up your views with facts not crazy shit.

  4. #19
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    *Sighs* I just spent half an hour typing up the specifics on why people hated the US, my browser crashed, I lost everything, I type up a short version and my browser crashed agian.

    So, here are short talking points on why people hate the US. If you have specifics, PM me. I do not want to force my beliefs onto you, this is just my opinion mixed in with facts.

    -Americans are lazy. On TV, a midwestern said 'having women do the housework is just the red-blood American tradition,' and 'fast food is the American meal' If this was true, our social system would be turned back thousands of years and everyone would be fat. Americans will not take nasty jobs in order to put food on the table. I would lick cow shit off of the bottom of someones shoe if it meant that my family could eat tonight. But, America does not think that way, they leave those jobs to illegal imigrants that get payed $1.00 a day.

    -Americans are to nationalistic. Teachers at my school force the kids to say the pledge. I have been suspeneded seven times because I have never said the pledge. I am not proud to be an American. There is a national holiday dedicated to the flag. WTF?!?!?!?!

    -America is to religious. The radical side on almost all political issues are funded by religious groups (Abortion = Church, Gay Mariage = Mormons.) Americans follow the Bible more than their conscience. Americans skip important things to go to church. Skipping one day of church will not kill you.

    -The American people do not get the economy. Trickle down ecenomics does not work. We tried it with Regan and Bush, it did not help the economy. Then, Clinton steped in and fixed the economy, only to make it easier for banks to give out subprime loans. This hurt the economy in the longrun, and Bush did not do anything to stop it. He refered to the old tricke-down theory, which just made the situation even worse. Now, McCain steped in proposing the same theory that had been tried three times, and has never worked and he gets over fourty precent of the vote. Wow. Americans are so stuborn.

    -Americans elect non-qualified people into office. A senator from Texas, whose former job was an exterminator, believes in anarchy (he believs in no taxes. No taxes=no government=anarchy.) and got reelected. A governor from Minesota thinks that there should be an 'expose' of congress-members to see if they have anti-american views. We need to elect smart people to run our country! Sarah Palin. How is this woman qualified to be vice president? She was the mayor of a town with, I am not exactly sure on the number, but around four to six thousand people in it. She is the governor of Alaska with less people in it than my homeTOWN. She believes in torture, is a radical christian and doesn't believe in dinosaurs. She does not even know what magazines or newspapers she reads and thinks our oil problems will be solved by drilling for more oil. We do not need an average American running the white house. Don't you want the smartest person in your country to be president? The most politicaly educated, the one that went to the best college? I do.

    -Bush's foreign policy has left a mark on the world. Gitmo was established so the United States government cound do things on foreign soil because they were deamed inhumane and unjust in the United States. This made other countries hate us, and is the main reason that the United States is shuned by other countries. We tortured people and kept they in a prison without any sort of trial. One of these people was a fourteen year old boy. Another was a man who was going over to Iraq to buy a rug, and stayed in Gitmo for over six years before his trial. When he was released, he went back to Iraq and fought for AlQueda because he was so PO'd at us for what we did to him.

    If you need to talk to me about any of these points, I will be glad to on AIM, which I am currently making an account on right now. My username should be 'ghettounicorns.' Thanks and have a great day!

  5. #20
    Obama's Avatar
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    I was to lazy to read all your bull shit but half of the shit you wrote is completely wrong and 9/10 you probably didnt get your facts straight and copy and pasted from a blogger who puts his opinion, not facts, in his posts.

  6. #21
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    http://www.lifeistravel.org/content/370

    That beats down your theory on "lazy" Americans. In fact, Americans are not lazy, their in the top percentage of being the most hard workers in the world, also... Our Infrastructure was not builded by itself, somebody HAD to build it.

    Yes, this nation THOSE Follow the roots of the Nationalist ideology but... Its not wrong to follow something, that your forefathers did.

    Our Forefathers were radicals too... And they created this nation, Equality for all. Also the term fetus, is just a political term, remove the fetus, and you kill an innocent child, that it cannot defend itself. The Constitution of the United States of America, it states that we have certain unalienable rights, chief among these are "LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    [YOUTUBE]V2CaBR3z85c&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

    Yes, Bush DID try to stop this Economic Crisis, tried it with Lawmakers, but the Lawmakers did not allow it. Basically everybody who says, George Bush is the "Moral" injustifier is wrong.

    The people elect, through a Political process... And that political process is determined by a long series of events. And I mean A LOT.

    And disagree with Obama, and his closing of the GITMO operations... This will allow, the terrorist organizations to train better their soldiers or insurgents, into NOT submiting into torture, as they will already know, all of its procedures. Also, this tortures, prevented another terrorist attack.

  7. #22
    HeadShot911's Avatar
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    yoo yo yo dont even bring russia into this.. we iz bomb
    -russia

  8. #23
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    Ok, I am not even going to try to reason with you because you obviously are a smart person that does not use his intelligence to make smart decisions and come to accurate conclusions. "Our Infrastructure was not builded by itself, somebody HAD to build it." It's built, not builded. "It’s not wrong to follow something, that your forefathers did." Why is there a comma after something? And our forefathers had slavery. Do you think that that is right? The difference between me and you is that we both pay attention in school, but I use my knowledge to come to smart conclusions, it does not seam that you do that. Do you watch Fox News? That is the only conclusion that I can come to. And don't you even give me that shit about how 'Fox News is the least biased news station," which I do not think you will do because you exercise some level of intelligence and do not seam like a zombie follower. If you want to have a civil conversation without beating down every single one of my points, then I will be glad to talk with you.

    Ok, now about the things that you said about my political standings. I will go in chronological order. Lazy Americans. Personally, I thought that page was useless. First of all, the Americans are lazy and they do not work hard, at least over 50% of them. Your page showed me the amount of hours worked each year, that does not tell me anything. I could have a job being a McFlury maker at McDonalds, working ten hours a day, and I would not consider myself to be as hard-working as a journalist. 1 hour of work is not equal to one hour of hard work.
    Secondly, infrastructure does not include jobs like lawyers, bank CEO's, or gardeners, it only includes the necessities, like teachers, electricians and sanitary officers. Someone did build our infrastructure, and those people are motivated by people who want a better life, and they do that by building our infrastructure because people do not want to do it while they are complaining about the fact that they are unemployed. These hard-working, poor Americans build up our infrastructure while they gradually become the middle class. To better understand them, read the poem 'Mother to Son' by Langston Hughes. The link is below. In this poem, her mother uses the metaphor of stairs as her life. She says that she climbed up the stairs of life, splintered stairs (she has been poor for most of her life,) but they were motivated because they knew that they would rise up the social ladder of this country and eventually, there would be a crystal step.

    Langston Hughes' Mother to Son

    'chief among these are "LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.' You forgot to close the quotations. That bogus add that you showed me, it is complete propaganda which twists the facts to suit their own points. When it says 'his father will abandon him,' it implies that his dad abandoned his mother when he was still in the womb. He left when Obama was two! Obama could not have been aborted after he was born. If a one legged woman got raped, was barely surviving on welfare, in so much need that she only ate twice a week, and she found out that she was going to have triplets, having those babies would force her to either eat less, try to find a job or give them up for adoption. If she ate less, she may die which would cause all of her babies to die. If she got a job, her children could be killed because they would be living on the street without any supervision at all. Three stray babies, not a pretty sight. If women gave their babies up to adoption, adoption centers would be completely filled to the roof with no beds for children to sleep in, and kids would barely be fed. Do you want that? The simple alternative is to have an abortion which would actually save lives.

    Now to the economy. Do you believe in trickle-down-economics? I just want you to answer that question, because that theory has been tested three times and failed every single time. Why should we try it a fourth time? It is a waste of our money, time and welfare of American citizens, and no I did not mean the welfare program. If Bush did try to save the economy, why did he try a policy that had failed two times? Why did he not do the smart thing and stick to a proven policy rather than a failed one. Who would you want to hire for a job: Someone who got fired from two jobs because he made the company loose money with his bad ways, or someone who succeeded in a company and made its profit rise out of depression and gave it a huge surplus? Bush chose the first guy. Also, I really doubt that lawmakers would tell Bush that he could not save the economy and they wanted the economy to go down the drain.

    'this will allow, the terrorist organizations.' Another random comma. I do not care if the terrorists know how to deal with torture the best in the world, if we abolish our torture policy all together, that skill would be rendered useless. If we closed Gitmo, that would mean no federal torture in the United States, meaning that the terrorists actually wasted their own time on anti-torture policies.
    You also said that the torture helped protect America from another terrorist attack. No one knows that, the torturers have never told anyone. Also, if the NSA or CIA actually did stop a terrorist attack, the feat would be front page news around the world. "TORTURE PREVENTS IMINENT ATTACK" would be the title. If this did happen, Gitmo would not have been closed down because Obama would know that it saved many lives and would weight the pros and cons and decide that torturing a couple of people is worth saving thousands of American lives.

    Get your facts straight, stop watching Fox if you do, and stop listening to Limbaugh!

  9. #24
    jamesbanks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jussofresh1 View Post
    I was to lazy to read all your bull shit but half of the shit you wrote is completely wrong and 9/10 you probably didnt get your facts straight and copy and pasted from a blogger who puts his opinion, not facts, in his posts.
    Will you please tell me the things that I said wrong so I can completly make you feal like a retarded dumbass when I prove you wrong on everything I wrote. FYI I coppied and pasted nothing of that, all of it was my orignial writing, I confirmed two of my things that I was not sure were correct, and if you do not believe me, I don't give a shit because you are a right-wing radical who probably watches only Fox News with Bill O' the clown.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbanks View Post
    Will you please tell me the things that I said wrong so I can completly make you feal like a retarded dumbass when I prove you wrong on everything I wrote. FYI I coppied and pasted nothing of that, all of it was my orignial writing, I confirmed two of my things that I was not sure were correct, and if you do not believe me, I don't give a shit because you are a right-wing radical who probably watches only Fox News with Bill O' the clown.
    Your posts are all opinionated how do you not see it. Show me facts i dont want opinions. I dont have time or feel like explaining in detail how your wrong so maybe ill pm u later when i feel like typing a page.

  11. #26
    jamesbanks's Avatar
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    Oh my god, my fricking browser shut down right before I was going to press post.

    Quick facts, these are facts:

    -There is no measurement to determine productivity, so you can not say that the American worker is the most productive in the world. Productivity does not equal work time.

    -Infrastructure is not our economy. Our economy includes everything and is very complex. Infrastructure is necessities in a society. I.e. Schools, Electricity and Sewage. Our infrastructure was built partially by illegal immigrants.

    -Abortions are carried out while the baby has no nerves, therefore, you can stab the baby with a butcher knife and dissect it alive, and it can not feel anything. OPINION WARNING: Part of the YouTube ad’s point was that Obama's father left while Obama's mom was pregnant, so she was wondering how she would support her baby alone, so she may had wanted to get an abortion. FACT: Obama's dad left when he was two. You can not have an abortion outside of the womb. That is called murder.

    -Fact: There is no credible evidence once so ever that any of the torture at Gitmo helped the NSA protect our country from another terrorist attack on American soil. Fact: The Gitmo detainees did not receive any form of trial before the presidential primaries. Fact: The United States government set up Gitmo off of US soil because the practices that they wanted to execute upon the detainees was determined inhumane and against international laws.

    -Fact: Under both of the Bushes and Regan, the economy was not better after they left office, it became worse. Fact: Under Clinton, the economy improved. OPINION: It makes no sense why politicians would want to put failed policies into effect rather than proven ones.

    ARE THOSE GOOD ENOUGH FACTS FOR YOU??????????

  12. #27
    Zen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbanks View Post


    -Americans are to nationalistic. Teachers at my school force the kids to say the pledge. I have been suspeneded seven times because I have never said the pledge. I am not proud to be an American. There is a national holiday dedicated to the flag. WTF?!?!?!?!

    -America is to religious. The radical side on almost all political issues are funded by religious groups (Abortion = Church, Gay Mariage = Mormons.) Americans follow the Bible more than their conscience. Americans skip important things to go to church. Skipping one day of church will not kill you.


    -Bush's foreign policy has left a mark on the world. Gitmo was established so the United States government cound do things on foreign soil because they were deamed inhumane and unjust in the United States. This made other countries hate us, and is the main reason that the United States is shuned by other countries. We tortured people and kept they in a prison without any sort of trial. One of these people was a fourteen year old boy. Another was a man who was going over to Iraq to buy a rug, and stayed in Gitmo for over six years before his trial. When he was released, he went back to Iraq and fought for AlQueda because he was so PO'd at us for what we did to him.

    Ok just a few things. First off, An american army base (Gitmo) is soverign USA soil, so technically bush wasnt even right there. There are many rumors coming out of Gitmo like the guy with the rug, but like w/ stories in the middle east they are only half truthes or made up off of a real story. Dont get me wrong im Anti Gitmo as the next Communist/Socialist in line but i still have to point out the fact that some of the stories have been bent.

    You could of sued your school for making you say the pledge if you live within the United States of America. Its within the stutends rights to not say the pledge if you do not wish, however it is not within them to talk/or disrupt other people saying it.

    and yes, thats why gay marrige, abortion etc should be legalized the republics (mostly) have brought church into a country that wants to separate Church and state.

  13. #28
    Zeinland's Avatar
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    U.S. Most Productive Country

    Also, the United Nations MADE a poll regarding Productive countries in the world, the USA being the First... It was regarding to the World Economic Forum. If you don't agree with this, take it up with THEM, the most powerful people in Economics.

    Of Course Infrastructure is not our economy, but it gives it a Major boost regarding productivity in the Services sector. And the services sector is the Economic Sector that makes our Economy run.

    Science has declared, that when their is the conception, immediately the Embryo has DNA. Marking him/her through his/her life. DNA is something unique.

    Regarding GITMO, United States needs to take extraordinary precautions to prevent another terrorist attack. And yes, a Prisoner in GITMO has stated this "If it not for my capture, I would have destroyed the Pentagon". They're was another major historic building, that was gonna be destroyed, but I forgot which one. I would also adopt Inhumane ideas, to prevent any person in the world, from being brutally murdered by some people and their Radical Ideology.

    I cannot say much about Reagan and his economy, as I have built upon research on him. But our economy was in downturn due to massive Foreign aid, during the After-Math of World War II. Over 700 M people were sorely depended on us. Yes, it was going well for President Clinton, but that was until he signed an agreement on 1998, which created this disaster. Not even in his first year, Bush experienced a MAJOR Economic crisis, officially we were in a Recession in 2001.

    [YOUTUBE]1RZVw3no2A4&annotation_id=annotation_918789&featur e=iv[/YOUTUBE]

  14. #29
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    Again, I am going to respond to your points in the same order that I did before - in order.

    First Point: Report conducted by the UN concludes that the United States is the most productive country in the world.

    Counterargument:

    'Many ******s lie. I live in Australia and a ****** done last year said Australians were the most productive and hardest working people in the world. This came as a big surprise to most of us
    Downunda. Most who were aware of this result
    most definitely did not believe it. You’re right Matt,
    what about the Japanese, Koreans , Taiwanese ,
    Chinese and Singaporeans. I think they’re a bit more productive than Westerners, esp. the Chinese.' - Patrick Seery, comment on that article.

    I know that this may not necessarily be true, but it is the only evidence that I can think of as a counterargument. I can not exactly state any facts on this point, all of them are observations that I made in real life here and in other countries, but I am 100% sure that America is not the most productive.

    Argument 2: Infrastructure gives a productivity boost to the Services sector which helps the economy greatly.

    Counterargument:

    'Services may involve the transport, distribution and sale of goods from producer to a consumer.' This means that the Services sector takes goods that have already been made, and selling it, or distributing them for customers. The Services sector does not involve manufacturing the goods, which is one of the major influences on the economy. That's why lots of people wanted to bail out Detroit automakers because there were so many jobs involved in the big three and people were afraid what would happen if they went down. This sector also does not involve construction workers, farmers, Hollywood, Lawyers, Businesspeople, Factory workers and teachers. The services sector only includes pilots, drivers, merchants, and some business owners. While the Services sector does contribute greatly to the economy, it does not contribute as much as other sectors.

    Argument 3: After conception, the Embryo has DNA, which makes it alive.

    Counterargument: Everything that is alive had DNA! The Embryo had DNA when the mother comes out of the womb. It always had DNA.

    Argument 4: A Gitmo detaine said that if he was not captured, he would have destroyed the Pentagon, you would use torture if it meant better national security.

    Counterargument: Uh...state your source please so I can cross check it. Thanks. And most of the terrorists over in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan fought for the Taliban and AlQueda because they knew what torment their soldiers were going through over in Cuba. Some of the innocent detains have been released and fought for AlQueda because of the torture that they went through at the Gitmo facilities. If we shut down Gitmo altogether, there would be a downfall in terrorists. We should give them all military trials based on accurate evidence. If they were proven innocent, we let them go. If they were guilty, we put them into American prisons so they will be in the same environment as mass-murderers.

    I would also adopt Inhumane ideas, to prevent any person in the world, from being brutally murdered by some people and their Radical Ideology.

    We do not know if these people actually wanted to hurt us, for every one guilty person we tortured, we probably tortured three innocent people. Would you join the military if you knew that foreign countries were capturing some of our citizens, most innocent, and torturing them and holding them without trial? Do you think that they would just let it go? This is an unwinnable war. If we storm their country and kill tons of civilians chasing shadows, do you think that that country will be happy at us? No. There will always be people who want to harm other people. I wish it was not like that, it is just the human nature.
    37
    Argument 5: Economy sucked during Regan because we loaned money out to destroyed countries after WWII, so there was no money left. Was that your point?

    Counterargument: Regan took office 37 years after WWII, so it has nothing to do with that. Regan diverted all of the government money to military stuff, which made our economy suck, and what did he do to try to fix it? The failed policy of trickle-down-economics! TRICKE-DOWN-ECENOMICS HAS NEVER WORKED AND IT WILL NEVER WORK IN THIS DAY IN AGE SO PEOPLE STOP TRYING IT BECAUSE IT JUST MAKES OUR ECONOMY SUCK MORE!!! And yes, I know that Clinton signed that thing that made it easier from subprime lenders to get loans, which the banks used to their advantage by jacking up their interest rates a couple years down the road which is causing all of the foreclosures now, so the banks have no more money, but look what Bush did to solve it. Tricke-down-ecenomics, and it didn't work...again! Why does anyone want to try this again? Someone please explain it to me.

    And FYI Bush had the worst environmental policies ever, he made mountaintop removal legal, gutted the Clean Water Act, and pretty much said fuck you to Mother Nature.

    P.S.: I was kind of grumpy last night, so I may have sounded like a bitch. Sorry about that. Hey join my group, intellectual politicians. We can chat some time.

  15. #30
    Zen's Avatar
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    We need a debate group on MPGH lol
    ill post a respnse to all of this wen i get some caffine in me (been up for toooo effin long) plus i need 2 look some things up.

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