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  1. #16
    kublkun's Avatar
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    First, You keep saying that I am saying, that Man should have the ability to just stop and abortion out right if they don't want it to happen. I'm saying that a Man should have some sort of say. Perhaps if the woman's reasons for the abortion are irresponsible, and the man could take full custody afterwards, I don't know. I didn't come on here to claim I had the answer to the problem, all I stated was that there is a problem. You cannot imagine the pain of being told that the egg inside of your girl friend, that will soon be your child, is going to be disposed of, for the simple fact that the child will be a "burden", with out having any way to even have your voice heard. Once again, all I am, at least trying to say, is that there should be a discussion of this topic, because it is an area that few people are even really aware of.

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    Second, I find it kind of ironic that you both say that a man cannot imagine the pain of child birth, but then go on to describe what it feels like. I've had experience with many births (obviously not mine) and it seems 4/5 times, it's only the first one that truly hurts, and like I have said, with the pain killers, and the epidermal, child birth is become less, and less painful. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it *Doesn't* hurt, I'm just saying that, as you said you're self, that "The amount of pain a women goes through during child birth is unimaginable to any man. " and while studies have determined how much pain a woman does feel, this doesn't account for adrenaline, and like I said, painkillers and the epidermal, and if I remember correctly, it only determines the stress a body goes through.

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    I know a few girls who have had children for the benefit of Child support and welfare. It happens a lot more often than you would think.

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    The court of law doesn't just handle criminal cases, it also settles disputes. Now I wouldn't go as far as to say it should be brought to court, I do think there should be good reason if the child can be cared for, to have an abortion, I mean it isn't a child till about 28 weeks, or so, but it has the potential for life, and anything to end that potential prematurely should at least be used cautiously.

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    If I willing give a girl my seed, then she obviously willingly accepted it, unless you are accusing me of rape, which I don't believe you are. So she would have had sex, with out protection, knowing full well of the consequences, and decided to be what some would argue as "irresponsible", and even though we made the same choices, I am the only one who cannot "opt" out of the price for having unprotected sex? If a man doesn't want a child, he can leave and ( hopefully) pay child support, if a woman doesn't want a child, she can just destroy the egg, and the man can do nothing about this.

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    Once again let me just reiterate, I am not complaining, I am not upset, I am just saying that I see there is a problem, and I'm asking that we could perhaps find a solution that is fair, and *Equal* which is kind of what this whole thread is about.

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    P.S "That is the equivalent of saying that because you gave blood to someone that you half-own their body. " This is a horrid comparison. The difference is, the blood I give some one, get filtered through their body and becomes *Their* blood, I mean it's not like you don't make new blood cells, what do you think is in your urine? Dead blood cells. That and the fact that I didn't give this child half their blood, I gave them their entire existence. There is a sort-of saying "Your first god is your parents."

    P.S.S I was never Arguing about C-sections, I was just stating fact, and you can ask for a C-section, so it's not always "are meant to be the last line of defense in child birth to save the baby from future damages or death"


    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Giving birth is a lot harder than impregnating a woman lol. How are you even trying to argue this?
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    Its called responsibility. I understand you use sex for recreation, but you do have to know the consequences of such actions. If you sleep with a woman, usually its assumed that you are in a relationship. If she wants a child, and you don't you have a problem, which you have to take responsibility for when you have sex with her.

    I'm fine with the man wanting an abortion, but if you honestly think that women would sleep with a man, go through childbirth, and all that shit just for child payments? LOL, you have not raised a kid.
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    Listen you can complain about it all you want. Its really just between you and the woman, the law doesn't need to get involved in these scenarios.You telling a women who wants an abortion that she can't simply because you want to keep it is the equivalent of the women telling you that you have to receive a vasectomy without anesthesia because she doesn't want children at all. The amount of pain a women goes through during child birth is unimaginable to any man. Think of being kicked in the balls for hours non stop, that pain doesn't subside for what feels like an eternity, all to spawn something that will set you back physically, mentally, and financially. Then think about the amount of hormones surging throughout the woman's body, fucking with her mind and emotions. If she doesn't want to experience that she does not have to because it is her body.

    Also, saying that because you impregnated her you have equal rights over the child is a terrible exertion of equal rights. That is the equivalent of saying that because you gave blood to someone that you half-own their body.

    The fact remains, you willingly gave her your seed, but even if she did purposefully poke a hole in your condom, that still doesn't mean it is an equal distribution of responsibility.

    C-Sections are necessary to save the babies life. Most women want a natural birth, however if the baby is backwards in the womb then it's head can have the umbilical cord wrapped around it and it could die from the stress of pulling it out feet first. Also, if a baby is not progressing as it should then a natural birth could kill the baby due to the amount pressure being exerted onto its body. C-Sections are meant to be the last line of defense in child birth to save the baby from future damages or death. Arguing that it is not safer or is not "better" is a moot point, it is not meant to be "better", it is meant to save the baby's life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Giving birth is a lot harder than impregnating a woman lol. How are you even trying to argue this?
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    Its called responsibility. I understand you use sex for recreation, but you do have to know the consequences of such actions. If you sleep with a woman, usually its assumed that you are in a relationship. If she wants a child, and you don't you have a problem, which you have to take responsibility for when you have sex with her.

    I'm fine with the man wanting an abortion, but if you honestly think that women would sleep with a man, go through childbirth, and all that shit just for child payments? LOL, you have not raised a kid.
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    Listen you can complain about it all you want. Its really just between you and the woman, the law doesn't need to get involved in these scenarios.
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  2. #17
    Empire's Avatar
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    Lets just finish this.

    You think that a child is a part of or the responsibility of the woman hosting it, correct?

    Then its not your call. That is all there is to it. Just because you are in a "relationship" does not give you ownership of another person's body in any way shape or form.
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    If you do not believe that the child is part of or the responsibility of the woman, then you believe you have ownership because you helped create something. Unfortunately 99.9999999% of the work towards childbirth is the responsibility of the woman, again, so you really aren't a deciding factor in any of this.



    Also, please stop being an idiot and thinking childbirth is something a person should have to suffer through for your selfish desires.


  3. #18
    kublkun's Avatar
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    I never said I would force someone through child birth, please don't assume, and I haven't insulted you, so please don't insult me, just because our view points are different.

    I'm not even really fighting you on the topic I posted about. It seems that this has turned into you taking what I see as a problem, and thinking that I am talking about a solution. Just because the first anwser is to force a woman to go through labor, doesn't mean it is the only anwser, just the easiest. A baby has 1/2 Dna from both parents ( I'm sure you know obv), so both parents "own" ( I wouldn't really use that word my self) at least half that child, and the responsiblity of each parent to insure the survival of their off spring.

    Even after the ad hominem, and not really reading what I am writing about ( I might not just be explaining my self well) I hope we can at least leave this argument with no bitter feelings.
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  4. #19
    Empire's Avatar
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    :/ If you aren't going to debate, then I really couldn't care less.

    The only reason the law gets involved with child-care is because there is a problem between the two parents in the first place.


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