Thread: Bye MPGH

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  1. #76
    Mr.Magicman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by why06 View Post
    First off plenty if not most "real programmers" don't share code as most of that code is proprietary and intellectual property of the company. Sharing that code would breach copyright laws.

    Though there are opensource communities, they are usually non-profit. Also there are still leechers in business practice they aren't called leechers, but they are just as incompetant. For instance the makers of DivX leeched code from Windows Media Player, which caused it to experience incompatibility problems stopping WMP from working. So leeching isn't always good.

    My stance? I believe in open source. I would be willing to share code as much as possible to the extent that I can still keep an edge in whatever business I'm in. However I share that code not so that others can simply overlook and copy what I did, but IMPROVE it or just learn understand it. It is important that programmers learn from an opensource community instead of just using the code without understanding the knowledge behind it. I would say that has primarily been the problem here.

    Hack source have an added problem in that they play on exploits. We should be teaching people the skills needed to hack. leeching code does not produce a better hack. It has been seen over and over again that it creates a group of inept leechers that are very limited in their abilities outside of a specific game and the tools provided to them by other more skillful programmers. No new site is going to change this. We need to teach techniques, but people are only interested in creating hacks not improving the field as a whole.

    I have witnessed various approaches and have seen that the best learning enviroment come from not stopping leeching entirely, but crediting those who provided the code, as well as knowledgeable people competing to advance techniques and seeking credit among others knowledgeable people. The one problem with these communities is they are against "pay-hacks" and tend to die off. So the most important part of a good learning community is to attract new members willing to learn and continue a tradition. That is why I stay here. It takes several years to gain enough skill to really start advancing the art, but the important part is creating an enviroment in which new people can join and there is reason for others to stay for long enough to advance the art themselves.

    The unfortunate fact is that many people start going up the ladder and just drop off, at the same time I do not see these people reappear in other communities. This means that there is a disconnect between these communities. There is no smooth transition so those who seems like "hot stuff" here become overwhelmed and like-wise give up on their advancement.

    There has yet to be a "pay-hack" community to do exceedingly well at gaining and retaining coders. However MPGH is good at retaining regular members, so I assume it should be possible to do the same with coders. It's just a matter of time. I think people should stay and simply try to improve the community, but I know people will want to create their own community. That may work for a little bit, but then they will want to attract members and will have to deal with the same problems MPGH deals with. I think its because of this sites peculiar position as being a gamehacking site, not focused on "payhacks" or purely learning, but rather community that it has a chance to excel when others can not. This why I will stay here until the coding community matures, and why I think others should do like-wise and try figuring out what they really want.
    Dude that's the best thing i've heard yet. Im very thankfull for this reply and i hope people gets inspired (like me)

    But i have one problem.. I cant seem to find any threads where you have helped..

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post

    Self-sustainable until the provider decides to drop it
    So this "provider" is the only one who is and can keep this community self-sustainable? /:

    Quote Originally Posted by cruizrisner View Post
    yes i mean that it would be best to have an open source hack. a community working together on it. leechers? who cares? they will copy what they can, make a hack then and it would be the exact same as whats in the source section. doesnt make them special at all cuz ppl would know they leeched. the whole point of making it open source is so that it can be made into a hack. doesnt mean one single person has to take all the code and put it in a hack by themselves. why not let everyone do it? the people who would be getting credit would be the ppl adding the code to the sources and making suggestions to edit/improve the code and not the ppl who posted NOTHING in help and yet made a hack. let them do that and ppl will know they leeched and their credit will not be very good. if you create this whole section in devoting to this idea you would slowly but surely lose the "noob leechers" to the fact they have no idea what you are talking about in the midst of all the actual code going around. just my idea for a new way to do things and possibly bring some actual programming to the source coding section
    That was the worst comeback ever /:

  3. #78
    cruizrisner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freedompeace View Post



    That was the worst comeback ever /:
    that was not a comeback. im not playing a childish little game of arguing. im simply making my own suggestions to the site and what i think would be the best idea. i state my point when i feel i should, i dont care what any of you think of me.

  4. #79
    scimmyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by why06 View Post
    First off plenty if not most "real programmers" don't share code as most of that code is proprietary and intellectual property of the company. Sharing that code would breach copyright laws.

    Though there are opensource communities, they are usually non-profit. Also there are still leechers in business practice they aren't called leechers, but they are just as incompetant. For instance the makers of DivX leeched code from Windows Media Player, which caused it to experience incompatibility problems stopping WMP from working. So leeching isn't always good.

    My stance? I believe in open source. I would be willing to share code as much as possible to the extent that I can still keep an edge in whatever business I'm in. However I share that code not so that others can simply overlook and copy what I did, but IMPROVE it or just learn understand it. It is important that programmers learn from an opensource community instead of just using the code without understanding the knowledge behind it. I would say that has primarily been the problem here.

    Hack source have an added problem in that they play on exploits. We should be teaching people the skills needed to hack. leeching code does not produce a better hack. It has been seen over and over again that it creates a group of inept leechers that are very limited in their abilities outside of a specific game and the tools provided to them by other more skillful programmers. No new site is going to change this. We need to teach techniques, but people are only interested in creating hacks not improving the field as a whole.

    I have witnessed various approaches and have seen that the best learning enviroment come from not stopping leeching entirely, but crediting those who provided the code, as well as knowledgeable people competing to advance techniques and seeking credit among others knowledgeable people. The one problem with these communities is they are against "pay-hacks" and tend to die off. So the most important part of a good learning community is to attract new members willing to learn and continue a tradition. That is why I stay here. It takes several years to gain enough skill to really start advancing the art, but the important part is creating an enviroment in which new people can join and there is reason for others to stay for long enough to advance the art themselves.

    The unfortunate fact is that many people start going up the ladder and just drop off, at the same time I do not see these people reappear in other communities. This means that there is a disconnect between these communities. There is no smooth transition so those who seems like "hot stuff" here become overwhelmed and like-wise give up on their advancement.

    There has yet to be a "pay-hack" community to do exceedingly well at gaining and retaining coders. However MPGH is good at retaining regular members, so I assume it should be possible to do the same with coders. It's just a matter of time. I think people should stay and simply try to improve the community, but I know people will want to create their own community. That may work for a little bit, but then they will want to attract members and will have to deal with the same problems MPGH deals with. I think its because of this sites peculiar position as being a gamehacking site, not focused on "payhacks" or purely learning, but rather community that it has a chance to excel when others can not. This why I will stay here until the coding community matures, and why I think others should do like-wise and try figuring out what they really want.
    Your vision is respectable, but flawed because this type of society might not be able to exist. As time progresses, the maturity within the community does increase, but will not be able to become as profound as you say. People come and go, and those who decide to leave, cause the knowledge to fall again.

    Look at the Marxist point of view. His idea of equality among everyone is surely a great idea to approach, but theres one main thing stopping everything...corruption. Corruption is what drags everything and everyone down. So called "leechers" these days care only about the fame and power that they can achieve by posting valuable hacks and code on the forum. Such thinking only hinders your perfect "learning community".

    The problem with MPGH is the vast number of people, and its popularity. There is absolutely no screening when it comes to guests or members that can come in and ruin everything. Most of the leechers don't even have an account here, and thus, no way for us to track them down. What we are lacking, is security.

    The new community that we have created is definitely not in competition with MPGH. It's a place where the selected few of us have found to be somewhere safe and secure. In fact, we want to improve this part of MPGH as much as we wanted our own place to stay. The reason our community exists now is because MPGH was not able to provide us with what we wanted. Our separate minion meant that there would be someone to specially moderate the section, keeping the feeling of security in existence.

    Again, by no means are we in competition in MPGH. Until this society of yours begins to sprout, why06, we will do our work where we see fit. If the Source Code section finally decides to drop the immaturity, and start fresh, then the sense of security will return.

  5. #80
    LightzOut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruizrisner View Post
    yes i mean that it would be best to have an open source hack. a community working together on it. leechers? who cares? they will copy what they can, make a hack then and it would be the exact same as whats in the source section. doesnt make them special at all cuz ppl would know they leeched. the whole point of making it open source is so that it can be made into a hack. doesnt mean one single person has to take all the code and put it in a hack by themselves. why not let everyone do it? the people who would be getting credit would be the ppl adding the code to the sources and making suggestions to edit/improve the code and not the ppl who posted NOTHING in help and yet made a hack. let them do that and ppl will know they leeched and their credit will not be very good. if you create this whole section in devoting to this idea you would slowly but surely lose the "noob leechers" to the fact they have no idea what you are talking about in the midst of all the actual code going around. just my idea for a new way to do things and possibly bring some actual programming to the source coding section
    You do realize that is a terrible idea?

    The core problem to this whole ordeal is people spoonfeeding noobs without them having to learn anything. If their is open source for some amazing hack that everyone has access to, what will happen to VIP's? What will happen to people actually learning to do it themselves, for their own intellectual benefit? Why would anyone new to the hacking scene even need to learn anything about programming when all they have to do is copy and paste some public source put together by a few knowledgeable people?

    Instead of one huge source that can be accessed by anyone, there should be tutorials on how to do those things that would be in that source. Maybe there would be in depth tutorials on reversing, specific to Combat Arms. Or maybe there would be tutorials for C/C++, also a little bit more concentrated on gaming (d3d).

    I'm not saying that sharing source is bad, by all means, it is a good thing. No one can figure everything out themselves (Well some can, but 99% can't). But when the majority of people using that code don't even understand what any of it means or does, that is where the problem lies. There is no easy solution, but until people actually take the initiative and atleast try learning some programming for themselves, nothing will ever change.

  6. #81
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    If their is open source for some amazing hack that everyone has access to, what will happen to VIP's?
    My view: Hacks shouldn't be sold. In every hack there is work from other people in there, so why be so ignorant and sell their work? That is just lame. That's why I believe in free hacks. If you release a good open source hack people would copy it and sell it on their site. Is it that what you want?


  7. #82
    cruizrisner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon` View Post
    My view: Hacks shouldn't be sold. In every hack there is work from other people in there, so why be so ignorant and sell their work? That is just lame. That's why I believe in free hacks. If you release a good open source hack people would copy it and sell it on their site. Is it that what you want?
    not to many ppl would be dumb enough to buy it if they realized they just leeched all the source xD. but yes i agree that there should be no VIP and i think a way to get rid of that is by having a large really good open source hack

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon` View Post
    My view: Hacks shouldn't be sold. In every hack there is work from other people in there, so why be so ignorant and sell their work? That is just lame. That's why I believe in free hacks. If you release a good open source hack people would copy it and sell it on their site. Is it that what you want?
    Companies make money off of "borrowed" ideas. Sure some of that code maybe a technique learned from someone else. However VIPs offer a reason for competition. If ur good at something you should be able to make money off of it. As it usually goes those proprietary techniques are passed down in time. I understand where your coming from, but in that approach the only way to make money is to create your own site not to mention the proliferated use of public VIP's tend to deteriorate the game itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magicman View Post

    But i have one problem.. I cant seem to find any threads where you have helped..
    I don't help in this forum as its too game specific, but I have tried to help in the past in the Programming Section. I haven't helped out much lately though because I've been busy with my own things. In anycase I'm not sure how I would help here.
    Last edited by why06; 10-18-2010 at 10:54 AM.

    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."
    - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  9. #84
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    Ok I think the point has been made. Anybody who can, please close my thread.

  10. #85
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    Well I believe in free hacks too. Hence all of the publics.

    But I also believe in entrepreneurship. If someone can make something that not many other people can, why shouldn't they be rewarded for it? I understand if it's against your principles, but if you had a chance to make $7,000 a month off of selling hacks, like legend, why wouldn't you take it?

    EDIT:
    And when I say $7,000 that is for multiple games of course.
    And I'm talking more in general, if all hacks for every game were to be open source it would be complete chaos. As you can see in WarRock and Combat Arms. Games like soldierfront and such that don't have so much opensource code have hardly any hackers.
    VIPs for CA and WarRock are pretty much pointless now anyways.
    Last edited by LightzOut; 10-18-2010 at 05:44 PM.

  11. #86
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    so ur motivation to keep VIP's is to give someone the chance to make money? how about get a life and a real job instead of making hacks for a free game. if its a free game the hacks should be free as well (im talking about there should be no VIP). they should only be a side project not anything that consumes ones life. if it were a community working together to make hacks then you wouldnt have to worry about spending much time on hacks as many ppl are contributing and the end product goes to everyone which makes everyone happy. yes it would kill combat arms. but then a new game would come along and it would be turn for that one to be hacked. if the game creators didnt want that to happen to them then they would learn from failures like neXon and make a more secure/harder to hack game

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruizrisner View Post
    so ur motivation to keep VIP's is to give someone the chance to make money? how about get a life and a real job instead of making hacks for a free game. if its a free game the hacks should be free as well (im talking about there should be no VIP). they should only be a side project not anything that consumes ones life. if it were a community working together to make hacks then you wouldnt have to worry about spending much time on hacks as many ppl are contributing and the end product goes to everyone which makes everyone happy. yes it would kill combat arms. but then a new game would come along and it would be turn for that one to be hacked. if the game creators didnt want that to happen to them then they would learn from failures like neXon and make a more secure/harder to hack game
    So you're asking all of the coders to use their precious effort and time to make hacks for you for free for your laziness rather than get what they deserve or do something else that may be more productive?

    Just as you work, putting effort and time into your work, we put effort and time into our hacks. If you, and others decide all of a sudden to work 10 hours a day for no pay, then I will create the best VIP hacks you will ever have seen and release it for free as well.

  13. #88
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    Labour costs money. You're lucky you get public hacks for free.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by freedompeace View Post
    So you're asking all of the coders to use their precious effort and time to make hacks for you for free for your laziness rather than get what they deserve or do something else that may be more productive?

    Just as you work, putting effort and time into your work, we put effort and time into our hacks. If you, and others decide all of a sudden to work 10 hours a day for no pay, then I will create the best VIP hacks you will ever have seen and release it for free as well.
    its called get a life and spend less time on making hacks and then it wont be such a hard effort. if your coding them then it means its for your own pleasure. with enough ppl doing the same thing, it will be better then one person not sharing and making a VIP. seriously some VIP makers set up their hack once and have an auto updater or spend like 1 hour of time updating the hacks when need be (once a month or less). yea thats sure alot of hard effort huh? yet they sit back and get paid for this shit xD. i make a private hack for my self and my friends and yea it took like one week to code the whole thing and like 2-3 hours for me to do updates when they come. im ok with them using something i worked on for that short bit of time. i have a life outside of games and game hacking. i am not in a bad financial situation. basically what im doing is just a side past time for my main focus is my college work.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruizrisner View Post
    its called get a life and spend less time on making hacks and then it wont be such a hard effort. if your coding them then it means its for your own pleasure. with enough ppl doing the same thing, it will be better then one person not sharing and making a VIP. seriously some VIP makers set up their hack once and have an auto updater or spend like 1 hour of time updating the hacks when need be (once a month or less). yea thats sure alot of hard effort huh? yet they sit back and get paid for this shit xD. i make a private hack for my self and my friends and yea it took like one week to code the whole thing and like 2-3 hours for me to do updates when they come. im ok with them using something i worked on for that short bit of time. i have a life outside of games and game hacking. i am not in a bad financial situation. basically what im doing is just a side past time for my main focus is my college work.
    If your good at something why do it for free?

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