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  1. #1
    Takatsuki's Avatar
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    Post Kizumonogatari Light novel discussion

    @Empire You threw this idea out, but with me now finishing the light novel three days before I had planned, I wanted to go ahead and make it myself.

    Spoilers included. Ah, and sorry for the block of text.


    First and foremost- Holy. Shit

    That's pretty much all I can say. I'm extremely impressed. I've never been a fan of reading and this is my first light novel, so maybe my gratitude towards this seems weak, but I have never felt so pleased with a story. I have so many things I want to comment on, so this will probably be edited quite a bit, but I'll just touch on what my thoughts can perceive right now.

    First off, this trailer.


    After reading the story, it literally touches on EVERY single important aspect of the story. If one thing were to confuse me the most, its the hands that appear behind Hanekawa while she is watching Araragi fight Episode. I can't tie them together with anything, so I can only assume they mean nothing.

    Speaking of Hanekawa, I finally understand what you mean by their relationship. Well, maybe. At first it seems like shes just lonely as well. It starts off the story with them casually talking even though they had just met for the first time and it never really escalated past that. Sure she brought him manga to help with the fights she later learned about, and I'm just as sure that he greatly appreciated that. However, I can't think of something more serious than that. Yeah, she was in danger a few times. Episode almost killed her and he almost killed Episode because of that. Guillotinecutter kidnapped her, and he panicked. But isn't this the same reaction a dear friend would do as well? I'm not sure if I'm just overthinking what you had originally said and I self implied the relationship was deeper than this (He did wanna fondle them breasts) or I'm missing a major point in the story.


    Meme Oshino. Man, I don't have any words. He's sly as shit and the things he pulled off between negotiation and the talk on the roof because he stole her heart, hes easily one of the most interesting characters in the series and, unless I'm mistaken on this as well, I don't think we have his entire story. His motives remain vague, hidden with things such as travelling and receiving money as a means to travel. But Araragi also notices that he seems to be at the right place at the right time. I truly hope they manage to expand on him some more.


    Last but not least, Kiss-Shot Acerola-Orion Heart-Under-Blade, the iron-blooded, hot-blooded, cold-blooded vampire. In all honesty, I had a feeling of pity while reading the last few pages and even more so when I pictured the scenes of her sitting idly in the cram school. Creating a servant and trying to deceive said servant into killing her, which will ultimately end his life as a vampire and her life entirely. Maybe I'm just too emotionally attached to fictional characters but I still feel that sense of sadness. Living for 500 years with the thought of suicide being the only way out, it's tough.

    All in all, I really enjoyed Kizumonogatari and I'm glad I read it. I wish I had the vocabulary to express this more thoroughly but I think you get the point.




    “I will not say it once -- I will bow my head like a servant any number
    of times. So don’t try to have a cool death -- live an awkward life for
    me. Don’t search for a place to die, search for a place to live.”



    “If tomorrow you die my life will last until tomorrow -- if today you
    live, I too will live today.”

    So I vowed aloud.
    And then the story of the damaged goods begins.

  2. #2
    Empire's Avatar
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    SPOILERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickz123 View Post
    @EmpireAfter reading the story, it literally touches on EVERY single important aspect of the story. If one thing were to confuse me the most, its the hands that appear behind Hanekawa while she is watching Araragi fight Episode. I can't tie them together with anything, so I can only assume they mean nothing.
    [/I]
    Yeah idk what's with the hands but it's pretty funny how things work out in the trailer
    >Aragi's first meeting with Kisshot(who's actually de-limbed in that shot)
    >Crosswalk showing both Episode and Dramaturge with their weapons
    >Oshino saving the day
    >Episode's fighting style
    >Oshino holding Kisshot's heart
    >Kisshot devouring Guillotine Cutter
    >Their end speach to each other
    >Their fight with basic attacks.

    Edit: Oh and Guillotine cutters "odd look".

    Honestly it's gotta be the most spoiler-ish trailer I've ever seen lol.




    Quote Originally Posted by Stickz123 View Post
    Speaking of Hanekawa, I finally understand what you mean by their relationship. Well, maybe. At first it seems like shes just lonely as well. It starts off the story with them casually talking even though they had just met for the first time and it never really escalated past that. Sure she brought him manga to help with the fights she later learned about, and I'm just as sure that he greatly appreciated that. However, I can't think of something more serious than that. Yeah, she was in danger a few times. Episode almost killed her and he almost killed Episode because of that. Guillotinecutter kidnapped her, and he panicked. But isn't this the same reaction a dear friend would do as well? I'm not sure if I'm just overthinking what you had originally said and I self implied the relationship was deeper than this (He did wanna fondle them breasts) or I'm missing a major point in the story.
    In the LN's along with Nekomonogatari, they heavily set up a romantic relationship between Koyomi and Hanekawa. In just about any other series, they'd be a couple barring an act of tragedy.

    So it's really odd that Hitagi comes up out of fucking nowhere and becomes Koyomi's girlfrirend. This was addressed at the end of Bakemonogatari, but you don't really get the weight of that scene without having read Kizu/Neko.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickz123 View Post
    Meme Oshino. Man, I don't have any words. He's sly as shit and the things he pulled off between negotiation and the talk on the roof because he stole her heart, hes easily one of the most interesting characters in the series and, unless I'm mistaken on this as well, I don't think we have his entire story. His motives remain vague, hidden with things such as travelling and receiving money as a means to travel. But Araragi also notices that he seems to be at the right place at the right time. I truly hope they manage to expand on him some more.
    Oshino is what in literary terms is called "the wizard", coined after the phrase "a wizard is never early, nor is he late, he arrives precisely at the right time".(LoTR i believe).

    Actually you should be asking yourself why haven't we seen any more of Oshino in monogatari lately?(because there is a reason for that).


    Which is one of the things that I love about monogatari. All the little questions in the back of my mind do get answered, and sometimes it's a very peculiar circumstance in which they do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stickz123 View Post
    Last but not least, Kiss-Shot Acerola-Orion Heart-Under-Blade, the iron-blooded, hot-blooded, cold-blooded vampire. In all honesty, I had a feeling of pity while reading the last few pages and even more so when I pictured the scenes of her sitting idly in the cram school. Creating a servant and trying to deceive said servant into killing her, which will ultimately end his life as a vampire and her life entirely. Maybe I'm just too emotionally attached to fictional characters but I still feel that sense of sadness. Living for 500 years with the thought of suicide being the only way out, it's tough.
    It's odd right? Kisshot in Kizu is this immortal soul that has lived too long.
    (well, she just lost her lover before arriving to Japan, as explained in MSSS)

    Where in Nise/MSSS Shinobu's rather cheerful, at a degree that's really a 180 from what Kisshot is.

    Although in Shinobu Mail...........



    Quote Originally Posted by Stickz123 View Post
    All in all, I really enjoyed Kizumonogatari and I'm glad I read it. I wish I had the vocabulary to express this more thoroughly but I think you get the point.
    I think Kizu is probably the best monogatari story by far, mainly because it has something for everyone and wraps up rather nicely.
    (I can't remember if it was a oneshot or not).


    Personally there are three parts of the monogatari series that I enjoyed the most.
    -Kizu
    -Snake-god arcs.(Otorimonogatari/Koimonogatari)
    -Ougi Dark.


    Favorite scene is still the shinobu time final confrontation.


    Gotta say though, my least favorite of the bunch is Zokuowarimonogatari, which really didn't need to happen and isn't particularly well written.


  3. #3
    Takatsuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Yeah idk what's with the hands but it's pretty funny how things work out in the trailer
    >Aragi's first meeting with Kisshot(who's actually de-limbed in that shot)
    >Crosswalk showing both Episode and Dramaturge with their weapons
    >Oshino saving the day
    >Episode's fighting style
    >Oshino holding Kisshot's heart
    >Kisshot devouring Guillotine Cutter
    >Their end speach to each other
    >Their fight with basic attacks.

    Edit: Oh and Guillotine cutters "odd look".

    Honestly it's gotta be the most spoiler-ish trailer I've ever seen lol.
    Yep. When I first watched it, nothing made sense. After reading the Light Novel, everything makes sense and makes me even more excited for January. I can't wait to see the fights, especially Episodes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    In the LN's along with Nekomonogatari, they heavily set up a romantic relationship between Koyomi and Hanekawa. In just about any other series, they'd be a couple barring an act of tragedy.

    So it's really odd that Hitagi comes up out of fucking nowhere and becomes Koyomi's girlfrirend. This was addressed at the end of Bakemonogatari, but you don't really get the weight of that scene without having read Kizu/Neko.
    I see where you're coming from. Yeah, Hitagi becoming his girlfriend makes little sense. He helped her and she fell in love with him but she also states that if someone else were to do it, she would love them just as equal. Really, I think its just used to push Black Hanekawa out more with the whole stress from love.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Oshino is what in literary terms is called "the wizard", coined after the phrase "a wizard is never early, nor is he late, he arrives precisely at the right time".(LoTR i believe).

    Actually you should be asking yourself why haven't we seen any more of Oshino in monogatari lately?(because there is a reason for that).


    Which is one of the things that I love about monogatari. All the little questions in the back of my mind do get answered, and sometimes it's a very peculiar circumstance in which they do.
    Who would have guessed he had a meaning like that. It fits his character as well. Lord of the rings reference indeed. I've noticed a few from other series as well.

    I have asked where hes been, but I don't want to look it up and spoil myself. If I can find the Light Novel for Owari then I'll start reading it.

    Yep, the way they answer things are satisfying. Another thing they do is when they mention something small such as terrain advantage. Later on, it plays such an important role its almost like without it, he would have lost during the first fight. I've seen it in the series as well when they mention something like courage, but it had a smaller impact or so it seemed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    It's odd right? Kisshot in Kizu is this immortal soul that has lived too long.
    (well, she just lost her lover before arriving to Japan, as explained in MSSS)

    Where in Nise/MSSS Shinobu's rather cheerful, at a degree that's really a 180 from what Kisshot is.

    Although in Shinobu Mail...........
    It took me a while to get used to, but I enjoyed it. Reading that she was depressed was a bit unexpected but understood. And I think Nise/MSSS has her cheerful just due to the relationship she built with Araragi. Her second servant and the one that restored her power, beat her at full power and then forced her to live. Hence the quotes in OP, but I feel this is more direct with their relationship.

    “If tomorrow you die my life will last until tomorrow -- if today you
    live, I too will live today
    .”

    Pointing out Shinbou Mail like that... Gah, I wan't to read the LNs but don't at the same time.





    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    I think Kizu is probably the best monogatari story by far, mainly because it has something for everyone and wraps up rather nicely.
    (I can't remember if it was a oneshot or not).


    Personally there are three parts of the Monogatari series that I enjoyed the most.
    -Kizu
    -Snake-god arcs.(Otorimonogatari/Koimonogatari)
    -Ougi Dark.


    Favorite scene is still the shinobu time final confrontation.


    Gotta say though, my least favorite of the bunch is Zokuowarimonogatari, which really didn't need to happen and isn't particularly well written.
    I don't have a real favorite out of the series but in spite of what I've seen or read thus far:

    >Kizu
    >MSSS
    >Snake-god arc

    Fairly similar to what you have. Snake-god arc was because Kaiki just seemed to execute it so well. I'm not a fan of snake herself (Snail best girl) but still managed to enjoy her character and how it all panned out.

    Favorite scene? It's short, but when Kaiki is first introduced and Hitagi has Araragi chained up in the school to protect him. He gets the text from his sister saying "Help me" and we see his eyes go full vampire as he breaks free from the chains. In a series that has had little to no fighting thus far, I legitimately thought this was the breaking point and he was going to go full berserk. Although this never happens, it made me grin.


    Everyone that mentions the Mono series as a whole seems to not like Zokuowarimonogatari. Is there a particular reason? You say it doesn't need to happen and it's not well written, but is it because it doesn't live up to the Monogatari standards or is there more behind it?

  4. #4
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickz123 View Post
    Everyone that mentions the Mono series as a whole seems to not like Zokuowarimonogatari. Is there a particular reason? You say it doesn't need to happen and it's not well written, but is it because it doesn't live up to the Monogatari standards or is there more behind it?
    Zokuowarimonogatari commit's a "cardinal sin" in writing.

    That is, to introduce an alternate reality for the sake of exposition.

    Now Shinobu Time does it through shinobu herself, so it's excused more or less because it becomes a "companion trip".

    Zokuouwarimonogatari does it through an "artifact" and this is not a standard practice for monogatari.
    (if this were jojo's i'd be ok with it).


    There is a lot of other stuff, including the introduction of dead or alternate reality characters, their "true self" and other shenanigans with "alter egos"/"desires".

    It's just not a good way to show characters and it's really not needed for the series.


    In the terms of the monogatari series you learn 1-2 things that are trivial with relevance and 90% of it is "filler".


  5. #5
    Takatsuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Zokuowarimonogatari commit's a "cardinal sin" in writing.

    That is, to introduce an alternate reality for the sake of exposition.

    Now Shinobu Time does it through shinobu herself, so it's excused more or less because it becomes a "companion trip".

    Zokuouwarimonogatari does it through an "artifact" and this is not a standard practice for monogatari.
    (if this were jojo's i'd be ok with it).


    There is a lot of other stuff, including the introduction of dead or alternate reality characters, their "true self" and other shenanigans with "alter egos"/"desires".

    It's just not a good way to show characters and it's really not needed for the series.


    In the terms of the monogatari series you learn 1-2 things that are trivial with relevance and 90% of it is "filler".
    Well let's hope its never animated then.

  6. #6
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickz123 View Post
    Well let's hope its never animated then.
    Eh, they should just animate it with another season. Otherwise it's the end of the monogatari anime


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Eh, they should just animate it with another season. Otherwise it's the end of the monogatari anime
    I wouldn't want that lol. Monogatari is too good of a series to get shut down because of one season. Well, maybe not as extreme as I'm thinking, but I'm sure a lot of people would hate it.


    Off topic from the thread title here, but Owarimonogatari episode 3 was very nice. I feel slightly sorry for twin tails now. Though I don't know how the fuck she expects a middle schooler to have picked that all up.

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