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  1. #31
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    2. Choji hasn't developed one bit since ship started. Not that they should dev tobi, but yeah, no one but the three get dev. Not even kakashi.
    3. Giving him a chance? Dude he's introduced, fights, wins or loses, and never heard from again. This is 90% of the cast of naruto.
    4. How it happens isn't really important. No one dies or is even injured anymore. Its utterly uninteresting low-risk fights.
    5. You can't see WHY a villain would be bad? Profit, money, power aren't enough? They have to have some god-awful pathetic sob story about their childhood or being betrayed or some bullshit. Its stupid and not needed. Who wants to feel sorry for the guy who just nuked the village, honestly.*facepalm*.
    6. Because watching fights that have the good guy win "just because" is great entertainment huh.
    ----------------------------

    Best fight ever according to someone who just watches bleach. Not reallly proving your point here but.....:



    There is literally hundreds of other anime fight scenes that top naruto vs pein in buildup, animation, and execution. Sorry, but no, your buddy who likes bleach is wrong.(though to be honest the grimjow fight was better in bleach than this in at least animation).

    Feel free to post the fight you are talking about tho. I'd love to see why you think its the best animation ever.
    Last edited by Empire; 08-05-2012 at 01:04 AM.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    2. Choji hasn't developed one bit since ship started. Not that they should dev tobi, but yeah, no one but the three get dev. Not even kakashi.
    3. Giving him a chance? Dude he's introduced, fights, wins or loses, and never heard from again. This is 90% of the cast of naruto.
    4. How it happens isn't really important. No one dies or is even injured anymore. Its utterly uninteresting low-risk fights.
    5. You can't see WHY a villain would be bad? Profit, money, power aren't enough? They have to have some god-awful pathetic sob story about their childhood or being betrayed or some bullshit. Its stupid and not needed. Who wants to feel sorry for the guy who just nuked the village, honestly.*facepalm*.
    6. Because watching fights that have the good guy win "just because" is great entertainment huh.
    ----------------------------

    Best fight ever according to someone who just watches bleach. Not reallly proving your point here but.....:

    There is literally hundreds of other anime fight scenes that top naruto vs pein in buildup, animation, and execution. Sorry, but no, your buddy who likes bleach is wrong.(though to be honest the grimjow fight was better in bleach than this in at least animation).

    Feel free to post the fight you are talking about tho. I'd love to see why you think its the best animation ever.
    1. I just told you why I think he developed, but alright. Just because Naruto and Sasuke develop MORE than others doesn't mean they're not developed.
    2. I think he's an awesome character that has more than just 2D depth, but oh well. If you think otherwise I guess that's your opinion.
    3. Pretty sure Tobi is getting injured and is going to die by the end of all this....
    4. I do....People who fight for money and power are cowards, and that's why they make bad villains. People like Pain who do what they do because they've been dealt a life of Pain are much better villains that someone who would fight for money and power. Sure, he just nuked the village. But worse has been done to his village over time. I like Naruto and most of the Konoha citizens, but the 5 great villages are corrupt. They're like America towering over the rest of the world, shitting on everyone else to get ahead.
    5. "Just because."? They're obviously going to explain WHY. And yes, seeing the good guy win IS good entertainment. Hence why people like Naruto, DBZ, etc.
    ---------------------------------------
    A. I was talking about the first part of the fight, yeah, we can all take the bad parts of each anime and say "THE WHOLE THING IS BAD BECAUSE OF ONE EPISODE!!".

    and

    B. I never said the animation was the best to begin with. (But the animation from the first part is actually pretty good for it's time.) I said it was a good FIGHT scene.

    The pain fight was awesome, I liked every second of it. (Even the part where he went Kyubi and the animation went down.) And most people agree with me. The only part I didn't like was how when the animation got bad, it didn't seem like they were in Konoha anymore. I know they run away later but for the first few scenes it was like....wtf? Other than that, which is small really, I loved the whole thing.








     





















  3. #33
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    1. They don't dev at all. You do know what character dev is right?
    2. Introduce character, he beats opponent, never seen from again except maybe random and unimportant cameo.
    3. On the good guys side dumbass.
    4. Wow.......you must be the stupidest....just, just wow. They make bad villains because they are Evil? LOLWTFAREYOUON?
    -Lol at the 5 great villages are "corrupt", oh boy, related that to america, here it comes......... What a tool.
    5. Uh naruto may have cloned dbz, but its no where near dbz in fights. In dbz people die, planets explode, and THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO DIE.
    -----------------------------------------
    A. Yeah except every other episode is 10 times worse. The big fights are decent, but lets not kid ourselves and saying they are anywhere near other anime.
    -I tried to watch the mifune fight, i just couldn't. Its 90% talking, and for the majority of it its a single shot with a panning camera.(oh and some crappy leaf effects). I'm not lying when i say if you put a team of 3-4 people this could be accomplished with flash easily within a week.

    B. No, it wasn't good for its time. The only above average animation by comparison the series has ever had has been in its movies and ova. Thats it. The show has not once gone beyond average for animation.
    -----------------------------

    You keep saying this stuff like "most people agree with me" and "my friend said it was one of the best".

    Listen, i know you are still a kid, but no one cares when you say that.

    Example:
    Most people agree with me that naruto has turned into a horrible series. My friend said that it was one of the worse animation seens in anime history.

    You see when you say these things people automatically realize that you are trying to do the "imaginary friends" thing kids do. Its just some statement that has no real relevance to the topic because you made it up.


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    1. They don't dev at all. You do know what character dev is right?
    2. Introduce character, he beats opponent, never seen from again except maybe random and unimportant cameo.
    3. On the good guys side dumbass.
    4. Wow.......you must be the stupidest....just, just wow. They make bad villains because they are Evil? LOLWTFAREYOUON?
    -Lol at the 5 great villages are "corrupt", oh boy, related that to america, here it comes......... What a tool.
    5. Uh naruto may have cloned dbz, but its no where near dbz in fights. In dbz people die, planets explode, and THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO DIE.
    -----------------------------------------
    A. Yeah except every other episode is 10 times worse. The big fights are decent, but lets not kid ourselves and saying they are anywhere near other anime.
    -I tried to watch the mifune fight, i just couldn't. Its 90% talking, and for the majority of it its a single shot with a panning camera.(oh and some crappy leaf effects). I'm not lying when i say if you put a team of 3-4 people this could be accomplished with flash easily within a week.

    B. No, it wasn't good for its time. The only above average animation by comparison the series has ever had has been in its movies and ova. Thats it. The show has not once gone beyond average for animation.
    -----------------------------

    You keep saying this stuff like "most people agree with me" and "my friend said it was one of the best".

    Listen, i know you are still a kid, but no one cares when you say that.

    Example:
    Most people agree with me that naruto has turned into a horrible series. My friend said that it was one of the worse animation seens in anime history.

    You see when you say these things people automatically realize that you are trying to do the "imaginary friends" thing kids do. Its just some statement that has no real relevance to the topic because you made it up.
    1. Shikamaru developed, Choji developed, Kakashi developed (but not as much), you could say Jiraiya developed, plenty of characters outside of Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura have developed. Just not nearly as much.
    2. He has been seen before, and will be seen many more times on TOP of this. He's one of the commanders, and he's leader of the samurai.
    3. You should have specified. Plus, like I said, the war isn't over. It could happen. (Not that it NEEDS to.)
    4. They're CHEAP villains if they're bad just for the sake of being bad. Some villains can pull that off and do it good, but most usually don't. Orochimaru is a dick. They are corrupt, they do war in the land where the rain village is and shit on smaller countries\villages like that just to make themselves stronger. And America does do the same exact shit. I see no counter-argument here other than "I don't like what you're saying, even if it's true, so I'll call you a tool."
    5. I love how you ignore my whole point and fabricate something I didn't even say to respond to. I never said Naruto had better fights than DBZ, where the fuck did you get that? Oh, and just because there's a bigger boom doesn't make the fight better, DBZ has better fights overall for other reasons. Not just because the bang is bigger.
    --------------------------------

    Like we've said before, if you hate the show. Or are "disappointed" in it, then just don't watch it. Simple.

    How was the animation for the first part of the Pain fight not good? What was wrong with it? That was some of the best animation Naruto ever had....If you're going to insult filler episodes and shit like that, fine you're right it's not the best. But there's nothing wrong you could say about the first part of the pain fight. And yeah, movies and OVAs are supposed to be better, but I still don't think the show is bad when it matters. The only time I ever dis-liked the animation during the show was during fillers and stuff that doesn't matter. Just because other anime have BETTER animation doesn't make this animation BAD.
    --------------------------------

    When I say "most people agree with me" I mean every comment on any forum or website anywhere that I've ever read says this. Bringing up my friend was just a way for me to say even someone who HATED the show says this. I didn't really "make it up". It's all true....








     





















  5. #35
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    1. Yeah go watch other anime. Gaining age does not show character dev.
    2. Unimportant samurai are unimportant. Go figure.
    3. Might as well be filler for all the plot relevance or interest it has.
    4. Yup and this is why you are going back on the ignore list. Stupid ignorant kids.
    5. No I ignored your point because you were just wrong. How matters if something changes or is important later. Getting from point A to point B. If something comes into play later, cool. But it doesn't, so......yeah.
    ----------
    Yes it does mean its bad.

    Dear fucking god how do you still not understand this. When its so far behind even older standards of animation, and is just downright painful to watch, its bad.
    -This is standards, not top-tier here. I mean BASIC shit like "don't just put a picture and pan the camera" every 5 seconds or how about "don't take longer than a second with flashy speed-racer backgrounds".

    Sure once in a hundred or fifty episodes you might get some decent animation.*might

    Really? When I say "most people agree with me" I mean every comment on any forum or website anywhere that I've ever read says that naruto sucks. Bringing up my friend was just a way for me to say even someone who LOVED the show says this. I didn't really "make it up". It's all true....
    -Incase you didn't catch this, i just repeated what you said in hopes you realized how stupid you sound. My friend did this, every site i've been on says this. No one fucking cares kid.

    Yeah back to ignore list for you. Wasting time on this ignorant kid. Maybe one day he'll expand his horizons, maybe. But not the day i care.


  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    1. Yeah go watch other anime. Gaining age does not show character dev.
    2. Unimportant samurai are unimportant. Go figure.
    3. Might as well be filler for all the plot relevance or interest it has.
    4. Yup and this is why you are going back on the ignore list. Stupid ignorant kids.
    5. No I ignored your point because you were just wrong. How matters if something changes or is important later. Getting from point A to point B. If something comes into play later, cool. But it doesn't, so......yeah.
    ----------
    Yes it does mean its bad.

    Dear fucking god how do you still not understand this. When its so far behind even older standards of animation, and is just downright painful to watch, its bad.
    -This is standards, not top-tier here. I mean BASIC shit like "don't just put a picture and pan the camera" every 5 seconds or how about "don't take longer than a second with flashy speed-racer backgrounds".

    Sure once in a hundred or fifty episodes you might get some decent animation.*might

    Really? When I say "most people agree with me" I mean every comment on any forum or website anywhere that I've ever read says that naruto sucks. Bringing up my friend was just a way for me to say even someone who LOVED the show says this. I didn't really "make it up". It's all true....
    -Incase you didn't catch this, i just repeated what you said in hopes you realized how stupid you sound. My friend did this, every site i've been on says this. No one fucking cares kid.

    Yeah back to ignore list for you. Wasting time on this ignorant kid. Maybe one day he'll expand his horizons, maybe. But not the day i care.
    All I see here is you getting mad because people LIKE something, and you calling me ignorant.

    A. Saying "ignorant kid" x 500 isn't actually a retort.

    and

    B. How the fuck am I ignorant to my own opinion? I'd love if you could explain this to me.
    Last edited by scotbud123; 08-05-2012 at 03:12 AM.








     





















  7. #37
    Darkness cannot be defeated. It can only be hidden in the form of hatred
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    I gotta agree on Empire with some of his points. Watching something that you know what will happen in the end is BORING. We all know that Tobi will lose and that Naruto will win. FOR me, I don't really care how they win, it does make it more entertaining but the outcome is the most important part. If you keep getting repeated stuff like winning and ALL THE UNIMPORTANT people die and the IMPORTANT don't, it'll just bore the fans. Seeing a important character die such as Sakura would be ENTERTAINING and HOW she dies because it's an important person. Most people expect the main characters to stay alive. I disagree with Empire on the point that Kishimoto is dragging the series but it's a build up, you can't just get all the intense stuff done straight away, it takes the entertainment away. I do find each chapter getting a bit interesting only to find out what Tobi's identity is. The fight is boring and shit if it's like 3 on 1. It just makes it even more obvious who'll win. Personally, I'd like to see Tobi win the war, THAT'LL be entertaining for everyone and HOW he wins. All of us know Tobi will lose, that's what makes it bad.

    On the character development part, it's a mixture of both. They talk about shit that we probably haven't seen in the series and the thing is, the people that develop don't even take part what happens later? They're just in the background getting rid of the unimportant enemies. I'd like to see the developed characters actually TAKE a main roll in one of the fights. Seeing Naruto fight all the time is plain boring and the outcome is obvious. The Choji character development isn't much. He grows wings. That makes it more weird and it isn't much of a development. Seeing a development in the enemy, that's what I'D like to see. Because the same thing is happening, the same people fight and the techniques get boring after some time. The thing that I personally don't like is the enemy, just like Empire said. Even though I've said my point before, I'd think it would be nice if the enemy (in this case Tobi or Madara) to develop a new technoque and actually use it to there advantage. At the moment all Tobi is doing is defending. If he would actually find a new jutsu and use it (preferably a powerful one), it'd bring more intensity into the manga.


    Seeing what has already been seen by predictions gets boring. They need more main fights using the other characters, it actually makes the reader think they have a use of them. Kakashi and Gai might die, that might be good but they die in a 3 v 1 fight which is predictable and then Naruto wants to finish Tobi off blablabla. I want to see More entertaining stuff like Empire has said.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingernig View Post
    I gotta agree on Empire with some of his points. Watching something that you know what will happen in the end is BORING. We all know that Tobi will lose and that Naruto will win. FOR me, I don't really care how they win, it does make it more entertaining but the outcome is the most important part. If you keep getting repeated stuff like winning and ALL THE UNIMPORTANT people die and the IMPORTANT don't, it'll just bore the fans. Seeing a important character die such as Sakura would be ENTERTAINING and HOW she dies because it's an important person. Most people expect the main characters to stay alive. I disagree with Empire on the point that Kishimoto is dragging the series but it's a build up, you can't just get all the intense stuff done straight away, it takes the entertainment away. I do find each chapter getting a bit interesting only to find out what Tobi's identity is. The fight is boring and shit if it's like 3 on 1. It just makes it even more obvious who'll win. Personally, I'd like to see Tobi win the war, THAT'LL be entertaining for everyone and HOW he wins. All of us know Tobi will lose, that's what makes it bad.

    On the character development part, it's a mixture of both. They talk about shit that we probably haven't seen in the series and the thing is, the people that develop don't even take part what happens later? They're just in the background getting rid of the unimportant enemies. I'd like to see the developed characters actually TAKE a main roll in one of the fights. Seeing Naruto fight all the time is plain boring and the outcome is obvious. The Choji character development isn't much. He grows wings. That makes it more weird and it isn't much of a development. Seeing a development in the enemy, that's what I'D like to see. Because the same thing is happening, the same people fight and the techniques get boring after some time. The thing that I personally don't like is the enemy, just like Empire said. Even though I've said my point before, I'd think it would be nice if the enemy (in this case Tobi or Madara) to develop a new technoque and actually use it to there advantage. At the moment all Tobi is doing is defending. If he would actually find a new jutsu and use it (preferably a powerful one), it'd bring more intensity into the manga.


    Seeing what has already been seen by predictions gets boring. They need more main fights using the other characters, it actually makes the reader think they have a use of them. Kakashi and Gai might die, that might be good but they die in a 3 v 1 fight which is predictable and then Naruto wants to finish Tobi off blablabla. I want to see More entertaining stuff like Empire has said.
    I guess the point i'm trying to make on deathsning every fight is that even if they win every fight, it needs some difference to effect the story. DBZ had several main characters sacrifice and such. Even injuries, that thing with rock lee and garaa was pretty decent as well(gave him some dev as a bonus when he fought with garaa again). But seriously, naruto is probably the cleanest out of all the shonen. No one on the good side ever really takes any damage anymore in a fight, and i'm not talking about just naruto here.

    Tobi in my opinion is too much of a "crafty" villain. He fights out in the open, but doesn't display power or force. When you have a "mastermind" character they should always be in the shadows until the end. Putting them out in the open for a boss fight kind of defeats the purpose of having a plan though, especially with what is seemingly little preparation.

    Character dev. is not always in fights. Backstory and such give the character DEPTH(not much though if you have to flashback in a fight), but if you just give character #1 a backstory and then he fights character #2 and wins. Then the next time you see him he's pretty much the same person, nothing developed with the character. When a character changes in whatever way, from such things, its developement. Kishimoto has a really bad habit of introducing (now over a hundred) characters giving them some backstory in a flashback then you never seen any developement. They remain the same character who has the same backstory, who might use a different technique next time or something from training.
    -Naruto's fights are ok, but there is a hundred other ninja with their own techniques and strategy. We very rarely see their own fights against non-cannon fodder enemies, much less they get their own mini-arc. Instead in shippudden you get naruto fighting with his buddies "backing him up". Same thing with sasuke, except his fights are less in quantity.


    Last edited by Empire; 08-05-2012 at 08:45 PM.


  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    I guess the point i'm trying to make on deathsning every fight is that even if they win every fight, it needs some difference to effect the story. DBZ had several main characters sacrifice and such. Even injuries, that thing with rock lee and garaa was pretty decent as well(gave him some dev as a bonus when he fought with garaa again). But seriously, naruto is probably the cleanest out of all the shonen. No one on the good side ever really takes any damage anymore in a fight, and i'm not talking about just naruto here.

    Tobi in my opinion is too much of a "crafty" villain. He fights out in the open, but doesn't display power or force. When you have a "mastermind" character they should always be in the shadows until the end. Putting them out in the open for a boss fight kind of defeats the purpose of having a plan though, especially with what is seemingly little preparation.

    Character dev. is not always in fights. Backstory and such give the character DEPTH(not much though if you have to flashback in a fight), but if you just give character #1 a backstory and then he fights character #2 and wins. Then the next time you see him he's pretty much the same person, nothing developed with the character. When a character changes in whatever way, from such things, its developement. Kishimoto has a really bad habit of introducing (now over a hundred) characters giving them some backstory in a flashback then you never seen any developement. They remain the same character who has the same backstory, who might use a different technique next time or something from training.
    -Naruto's fights are ok, but there is a hundred other ninja with their own techniques and strategy. We very rarely see their own fights against non-cannon fodder enemies, much less they get their own mini-arc. Instead in shippudden you get naruto fighting with his buddies "backing him up". Same thing with sasuke, except his fights are less in quantity.


    Yeah, someone would have to be killed to bring more intensity into it, not a bad guy but one of the good guys. We need something to happen which is unexpected.

    Tobi doesn't fight in the open that much, all he's currently doing is defending their attack, and I'm sure that's pretty much all he could do at this stage. We all know he wouldn't just hide in the shadows because he has to capture Naruto and Killer Bee. I agree on how he doesn't show much power or force, none of us know his true power but I think Kishimoto is building it up to that point or "dragging". Tobi's plan is to capture the Nine tails and Eight, so he has to try and do something to weaken them (in this case fighting them). But if I was Tobi my top priority would be to eliminate Kakashi and Gai. It's always gotta be Naruto's buddies backing him up. Until Pein and Naruto fight, it got boring because there was never any good entertaining 1 on 1 fights.


    You are right about the character dev part, because all he does is pretty much give them a flashback and bang outa nowhere they gotten stronger. It's boring to see the same way of development. They need to find a different way of SHOWING what made them develop but it doesn't have to be the same kinda process if you understand me. They need to develop in some kind of INSIDE way and not just techniques. Their feelings or something as an example or how they view things. The same development idea of finding out a new jutsu only makes them stronger and shows no other point in what they're doing. A development on how they're seeing the 4 shinobi world war would be good if some good guy doesn't want to fight or something like that. Seeing what has already been seen but applying onto different characters isn't much as a development as your said.

  10. #40
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    Guess were different. If I don't like something, I don't bother with it. But Maybe id change my opinion if I followed something for so long.

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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KING View Post
    Guess were different. If I don't like something, I don't bother with it. But Maybe id change my opinion if I followed something for so long.
    Difference is that i just don't like the series now and I did before.

    Kind of like when CoD 5, or teamfortress 2 items, or BFBC1 for me. I liked the series, but after a certain point its got to bring something back to the table if there is any enjoyment to be found.

    Tons of anime do this, its just that naruto is so ungodly slow in getting to an obvious conclusion that its taking a lot longer.

    -Hate to say this but One piece, toriko, and fairy tail might actually pass it in fan count by the time this arc is over.

    Edit: Oh forgot to say "in the western world"

    One piece already surpasses naruto in japan by a long shot.
    Last edited by Empire; 08-06-2012 at 11:55 PM.


  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Difference is that i just don't like the series now and I did before.

    Kind of like when CoD 5, or teamfortress 2 items, or BFBC1 for me. I liked the series, but after a certain point its got to bring something back to the table if there is any enjoyment to be found.

    Tons of anime do this, its just that naruto is so ungodly slow in getting to an obvious conclusion that its taking a lot longer.

    -Hate to say this but One piece, toriko, and fairy tail might actually pass it in fan count by the time this arc is over.
    Well, Naruto and One Piece are always very close on polls, so OP passing it wouldn't surprise me. I doubt Fairy Tale or Toriko would though. :S (Even if I don't know much about Toriko.)








     





















  14. #43
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    I rather not go into comparing other manga's. Each on has it's pros and cons. (and purpose).

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  16. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by KING View Post
    I rather not go into comparing other manga's. Each on has it's pros and cons. (and purpose).
    Eh. To be fair you'd have to read other mangas.


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    You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Eh. To be fair you'd have to read other mangas.
    Sorry if we all don't have the time for that. ^_^

    What he's trying to say, is what I've been trying to say this whole time. There's nothing wrong with people liking a manga\anime. Just because it's not on "Empire's list of worthy anime." doesn't mean we're not allowed to like it.








     





















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