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    Naruto 596 Manga + Discusion


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    -.-

    Really naruto? You're going to pull the whole "this technique has a fatal flaw" routine again? It was bade enough with pain(5 second rule). But now the clone/zombie Midara looks like twice the adversary Tobi is.

    Also: Using wormholes and dematerialization in an anime where the main character's attack(and generally most other characters) is just a giant energy punch, is a bit much. The explanation of these techniques is simply "because".

    Going on an explanation of why tobi's technique has a flaw would require an explanation of the technique in the first place. (much less kakashi's eye that no longer requires mana).


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    Here we go again.
    You can use Kamui to hide a jutsu basically. So it's an invisible technique.

    Done.

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    for the first time madara actually gets hit by naruto

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    I think that the techniques seen in the last few episode can make one thing true. Please read my horribad as I try to explain.

    All MS users have an Offensive variant and Defensive variant (more or less) techniques that come from the shanigan.

    Sasuke Uchiha has an offensive Amaterasu (Amaterasu - Narutopedia, the Naruto Encyclopedia Wiki)
    and a Defensive Susanoo (Susanoo - Narutopedia, the Naruto Encyclopedia Wiki)
    Combined just for giggle (Shield of Black Flames - Narutopedia, the Naruto Encyclopedia Wiki)
    Those are more ninjustsu related.

    Here is an example of the genjustu
    Danzo uses Izanagi (Izanagi - Narutopedia, the Naruto Encyclopedia Wiki) basically cast Genjustu on himself (sort of defensive imo) and whatever he wants to happens happens.
    And Itachi uses Izanami (Izanami - Narutopedia, the Naruto Encyclopedia Wiki) basiclly super duper strong genjustu placed on the opponent (offensive)

    This is what I find super duper interesting.
    Kikashi and Tobi teleportation technique mimic each other the same way as as the previous techniques do. Though the relationship isn't the same as Danzo is to Itachi: as compared to Sauske same eyes on the same body.

    And to explain the Itachi and Danzo sharing MS traits, Danzo stole a bunch of eyes, could have taken Itachi fathers eyes or some shit(or Sauske Best friends eyes)...IDK.

    This would help explain why Kikashi MS shares the same dimension as Tobi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    -.-

    Really naruto? You're going to pull the whole "this technique has a fatal flaw" routine again? It was bade enough with pain(5 second rule). But now the clone/zombie Midara looks like twice the adversary Tobi is.

    Also: Using wormholes and dematerialization in an anime where the main character's attack(and generally most other characters) is just a giant energy punch, is a bit much. The explanation of these techniques is simply "because".

    Going on an explanation of why tobi's technique has a flaw would require an explanation of the technique in the first place. (much less kakashi's eye that no longer requires mana).
    Every technique has a flaw, that's pretty obvious. (Itachi said this as well.) If they didn't then there would be no way to really beat them now would there? This is actually something that should have been pretty obvious and should not come as a surprise to anyone. (I actually thought they were both one jutsu to begin with.)

    It's not really "giant energy punches", I mean it is but chakra is spiritual and body energy combined (not including sage chakra that also has natural energy). Even so I see nothing wrong with Tobi's abilities, I've always found them to be really cool.

    There is an explanation....it involves another dimension. Kakashi can send things to that dimension with Kamui. This is probably also the same dimension Tobi has used to store things in the past. Also, Tobi's ability to become intangible is probably just him fading into that other dimension partially, all of this seems pretty obvious to me, it doesn't really NEED an explanation. (Although I'm pretty sure we'll get one.)

    Oh, and Kakashi's ability still requires chakra, he's just used it a lot more so he's a shit ton more proficient at it (which means he uses less chakra with it each time). It also depends on the size of whatever he sends with it. And the fact that his determination could boost his stamina (but that's probably not the biggest contributor.)
    Last edited by scotbud123; 08-02-2012 at 02:02 PM.








     





















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    :/

    I'm still amazed how anyone hasn't cut naruto's arm off by now. Herp derp i'm going to lunge at you with an energy punch that you've seen 100 times by now.

    How has that not been countered?
    -----------------------------

    Simply put doing things with teleportation, alternate dimensions, and wormholes in a shonen is just silly. The use of them always seems to be incredibly stupid. Like kakashi, he fkin made a kurenai dissapear mid flight. WHY NOT JUST MAKE TOBI'S LEG DISSAPEAR. Or better yet Tobi's phasing, since it lasted 5minutes of paper bombing, it seems kinda odd how he gets hit now.
    -----------------------------------

    Even more disturbing: 3v1. So far pein did better given these circumstances, and his technique would work better too.

    On tobi: Who the hell just sits there and lets them figure out an attack plan.

    Man I miss shows where the badguy didn't just sit there and wait for attacks.


  9. #8
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    It has been countered, many times. (Prime example is with Kabuto in part 1.) That's why he made "Odama Rasengan" and "Cho Odama Rasengan" and etc. Also, the reason he hasn't gotten countered that much from sage mode and on (even if it's hard to tell in the manga) is because he's moving at the speed of light.

    I think the teleportation, alternate dimension, and worm whole stuff is fine. But I guess that's just preference. Oh, and he couldn't make Tobi's leg or phasing disappear because: A. Tobi's is more powerful. and B. He just figured out now that they're the same. Also, he gets hit now because Kakashi just figured it out. :S

    I think he just sat there because he wanted to see what they would do. He's probably a cocky mother fucker that is so arrogant he thinks he can't lose. This happens all the time in shonens. (Look at Vageta in DBZ, he did this like 50 fucking times.)








     





















  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    :/

    I'm still amazed how anyone hasn't cut naruto's arm off by now. Herp derp i'm going to lunge at you with an energy punch that you've seen 100 times by now.

    How has that not been countered?
    -----------------------------

    Simply put doing things with teleportation, alternate dimensions, and wormholes in a shonen is just silly. The use of them always seems to be incredibly stupid. Like kakashi, he fkin made a kurenai dissapear mid flight. WHY NOT JUST MAKE TOBI'S LEG DISSAPEAR. Or better yet Tobi's phasing, since it lasted 5minutes of paper bombing, it seems kinda odd how he gets hit now.
    -----------------------------------

    Even more disturbing: 3v1. So far pein did better given these circumstances, and his technique would work better too.

    On tobi: Who the hell just sits there and lets them figure out an attack plan.

    Man I miss shows where the badguy didn't just sit there and wait for attacks.

    Kamui sends people into another dimension. That dimension also is used by Tobi's space-time jutsu. So he can just go back.
    It seems as all space time jutsus used by the Mangekyou Sharingan end up in the same dimension. Also it'd take Kakashi alot of chakra to do that, it would go to waste in the end.

    You're saying chuck someone is a different dimension using alot of their energy when that enemy can simply go back. Tobi has alot of experience with his techniques because some are the techniques he only has. He uses it to benefit himself.

    If Tobi did try and attack, most likely he'll get gangbanged. He doesn't want to waste energy, he wants them to lose energy, thus why he doesn't just go in and kill em.

    He would want to preserve energy because the 5 kages are left still.

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  12. #10
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    The 5 kages are fighting midara. Derp.

    And the whole Tobi doesn't want to lost energy scenario is stupid. Thats 90% of naruto, the bad guy sits there and waits to get attacked or for them to forumulate a plan.

    *woosh* right over your head.
    ------------------------------------------

    What i still can't figure out is how this involves his moon eye plan. If you can beat the kage and stupid hero there seems to be little use for the plan, much less the stuff required for it.

    I'm reminded of a good plot when I think of FMA"s "father" using the huge sacrifice circle, but naruto.......naruto just seems extremely vague on everything and making it up at the last moment.
    Last edited by Empire; 08-02-2012 at 07:11 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    The 5 kages are fighting midara. Derp.

    And the whole Tobi doesn't want to lost energy scenario is stupid. Thats 90% of naruto, the bad guy sits there and waits to get attacked or for them to forumulate a plan.

    *woosh* right over your head.
    ------------------------------------------

    What i still can't figure out is how this involves his moon eye plan. If you can beat the kage and stupid hero there seems to be little use for the plan, much less the stuff required for it.

    I'm reminded of a good plot when I think of FMA"s "father" using the huge sacrifice circle, but naruto.......naruto just seems extremely vague on everything and making it up at the last moment.
    The 5 Kage are fighting Madara, unless you've had some personal conversations with Kishimoto and he told you that the Kage are going to lose, 100%, then saying derp to that is irrelevant. All Tobi knows is, they're still alive, so they're a threat to him. Hell, he knows the Edo Tensei was un-done, so as far as he knows Madara could be gone.

    How is that stupid? Are you implying WASTING energy is smart....?

    His plan applies to everyone, not just the strong people. He still wants the ability to cast a genjutsu on the entire world, weather or not he beats Naruto and the Kage has nothing to do with that. He would still want to go through with it.

    Oh, and vague is not a bad thing, mystery actually intrigues people. (I know, shocking right, some people DON'T want to be told everything by the writer's of what they're reading, some people want to guess for a bit.)








     





















  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotbud123 View Post
    Oh, and vague is not a bad thing, mystery actually intrigues people. (I know, shocking right, some people DON'T want to be told everything by the writer's of what they're reading, some people want to guess for a bit.)
    Mystery and making up powers on the spot are two different things my friend.

    Mystery is who is tobi.

    Bullshit is when a badguy has a plan, anounces it(because ninja are so outspoken these days), and the plan would somehow work because......magic?

    :/ Remember when energy usage actually tired out the people using it, the techniques were explained on how they are actually possible in the world giving the readers kind of the "limits" to a technique, and when the badguy didn't start a war to play defense?

    Yeah those were the days.
    ---------------------------------------------

    Just saying(and this isn't in JUST naruto ok, there are a lot of shonen with this): When blackholes and other dimensions are involved, and its not explained in almost any way, its just silly.

    Naruto doesn't have any real spell mechanics. Nothing is explained or consistent. You could give naruto the power to create a sun and it really wouldn't be inconsistent with the rest of the show.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Mystery and making up powers on the spot are two different things my friend.

    Mystery is who is tobi.

    Bullshit is when a badguy has a plan, anounces it(because ninja are so outspoken these days), and the plan would somehow work because......magic?

    :/ Remember when energy usage actually tired out the people using it, the techniques were explained on how they are actually possible in the world giving the readers kind of the "limits" to a technique, and when the badguy didn't start a war to play defense?

    Yeah those were the days.
    ---------------------------------------------

    Just saying(and this isn't in JUST naruto ok, there are a lot of shonen with this): When blackholes and other dimensions are involved, and its not explained in almost any way, its just silly.

    Naruto doesn't have any real spell mechanics. Nothing is explained or consistent. You could give naruto the power to create a sun and it really wouldn't be inconsistent with the rest of the show.
    Giving Naruto the power to create a sun .-. .... .-. That is just... .-.

    He's starting a war and playing defensively. It's one of the options he has. He doesn't have the biggest army, he has him and Kabuto who is useless at the moment and Madara. MADARA can fade away at any moment because the Edo tensei has been stopped. Am I right? But Madara must have a connection? That was my theory on Tobi is Obito, if Tobi is Madara, Madara wouldn't fade away.

    Anyway off from that.

    Tobi want to COMPLETE his moon eye plan. And the easiest way to do that is to defeat the enemy. He hasn't got alot of jutsu's himself so one way he does beat alot of his enemies is by wasting their energy. You think he'll just go in and attack Naruto, Kakashi and Gai?

    HE'S also playing defensively so he can complete his moon eye plan. He wants to waste their time and benefit it for himself. The weaker they are the more easier they are to capture.


    BUT WE all know it's gonna be a good ending.
    That's the thing that doesn't entertain me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Mystery and making up powers on the spot are two different things my friend.

    Mystery is who is tobi.

    Bullshit is when a badguy has a plan, anounces it(because ninja are so outspoken these days), and the plan would somehow work because......magic?

    :/ Remember when energy usage actually tired out the people using it, the techniques were explained on how they are actually possible in the world giving the readers kind of the "limits" to a technique, and when the badguy didn't start a war to play defense?

    Yeah those were the days.
    ---------------------------------------------

    Just saying(and this isn't in JUST naruto ok, there are a lot of shonen with this): When blackholes and other dimensions are involved, and its not explained in almost any way, its just silly.

    Naruto doesn't have any real spell mechanics. Nothing is explained or consistent. You could give naruto the power to create a sun and it really wouldn't be inconsistent with the rest of the show.
    Well, it's a Shonen. Things are bound to get out of hand at some point. The only way to counteract this is if they pull something like in Bleach where he gets nerfed the second he uses his strongest form. But that would be kind of lame, I would rather have super OP characters with some things that aren't 100% explained (even if you can assume an answer on your own) then having Naruto get nerfed every time he wants to get serious.

    The show was originally supposed to be about mages, not ninja, so that's why some things are the way they are. I agree, when it comes to JUST being a ninja, very few characters in Naruto ACTUALLY did that properly.

    Energy still tires people out, just not nearly as much. I guess you could say that's cheap writing but I see that more as they've just become much more proficient at what they do. (Or, in Naruto's case, the fox is working with him 100% now so he has a MUCH bigger chakra pool to work with.)

    Techniques are still explained for the most part, I'm pretty sure by the time the war comes to an end most of the things your asking now will be explained.

    The playing defense thing isn't a bad thing at all, if you want "ninja" related tactics, that's one of the prime things right there.

    Naruto getting the power to make the sun wouldn't make sense, since it would be pretty pointless. :S But it could happen, the sage of six paths made the moon. I don't see that as a BAD thing, it depends how it would be introduced and why.








     





















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    Quote Originally Posted by scotbud123 View Post
    Well, it's a Shonen. Things are bound to get out of hand at some point. The only way to counteract this is if they pull something like in Bleach where he gets nerfed the second he uses his strongest form. But that would be kind of lame, I would rather have super OP characters with some things that aren't 100% explained (even if you can assume an answer on your own) then having Naruto get nerfed every time he wants to get serious.

    The show was originally supposed to be about mages, not ninja, so that's why some things are the way they are. I agree, when it comes to JUST being a ninja, very few characters in Naruto ACTUALLY did that properly.

    Energy still tires people out, just not nearly as much. I guess you could say that's cheap writing but I see that more as they've just become much more proficient at what they do. (Or, in Naruto's case, the fox is working with him 100% now so he has a MUCH bigger chakra pool to work with.)

    Techniques are still explained for the most part, I'm pretty sure by the time the war comes to an end most of the things your asking now will be explained.

    The playing defense thing isn't a bad thing at all, if you want "ninja" related tactics, that's one of the prime things right there.

    Naruto getting the power to make the sun wouldn't make sense, since it would be pretty pointless. :S But it could happen, the sage of six paths made the moon. I don't see that as a BAD thing, it depends how it would be introduced and why.
    Why not?
    if goku can make spirite bomb, why cant naruto make the sun? /duh

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