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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by OncePhoenix View Post
    People need a way to justify existence.
    The whole evolution thing is quite a long shot to believe in to, even if it's kinda proven. Just the thought of us coming from some other species, and becoming the destroyer of earth is kind of unfathomable.
    That's the sad truth. I agree but in that case I'd still prefer the evolution theory. I would start listing everything that's wrong with the Bible (imo) but I really can't be bothered right now. (Just in general, not as response to you)
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    I'm not a christian, I was speaking on behalf of the scripture i've read from my religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    The bible was written over a long period, i'm not a christian but people tend to look at the negative parts of scriptures which probably was written by some random.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    -The bible was written over a long period
    -negative parts of scripture which probably was written by some random
    I'd prefer it if you wouldn't lie to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Whats the point? I stated that all scriptures hold truth, but most scriptures also hold some sort of falseness.
    Yet you do not quote these scripture which hold truth, and instead claim all scripture holds truth. Though you then come back with another blanket statement, claiming "most scriptures also hold some sort of falseness". Well, if you acknowledge that most scripture hold some sort of falseness then why do you insist upon following such scripture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    In my view for example, I do not believe that the Earth was created 6000 years ago. If you research Sikhism and read it's scripture you will come across a lot of logical explanations. A lot of things I guarantee you learn will be things you probably already see as the truth.
    Wait, how about no. Instead, why don't you write out for me exactly what it is I see as truth in Sikhism's scripture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Refer back to my point above. [but most scriptures also hold some sort of falseness.] Theres a reason we are born with certain functions and features, let your body be as natural as possible. I do not know agree with the practise of circumcising children.
    Just because it is natural, does not mean it is ideal or justified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This is where you see the less intelligent religious people come into the picture. A good proportion of religious people don't actually read the scriptures or even follow the teachings of their religion most of the time. We have people claiming to be christians or muslims or hindus, sikhs etc... yet, most of these "religious" people are only following the religion because their parents did.
    So you decide who are the true Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs, not those who claim to be such. Forgive me, for you must be the truest of all the Scotsmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    If you usually meet a person who is more aware of what their following and isn't blindly following a religion assigned by their parents you will see them as being more intelligent.
    Aye there's the rub. You must be more intelligent than all others who follow Sikhism because you know that what you believe in is idiocy incarnate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Let me put this out as best as I can, God isn't a literal entity, there is no gender or description of what or who God is.
    Okay, then if you hold no description of God then you hold no idea of what God is. Click, done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    These are individuals or should I say a large number of religious people who simply rely on what others tell them.
    No, the holy scripture reads not to rape or murder and also ask them to mutilate their children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    I think most would say that they don't rape or murder because its against the law and it's a crime. Even morally you know its wrong so you shouldn't do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Again i've never heard a religious person say that they wouldn't rape or murder because it's against their religion. The only answer I would receive is what I mentioned above.
    Ahhh fore if thou hath not seen it with thy own eyes, then it shan't be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Again, you bring up comments that a illogical religious person would say. Just because i'm religious doesn't mean I would use those terms.
    I am afraid my friend that, this way of thinking is quite prominent in religious doctrine. It is this doctrine which claims to be the truth of the universe and shall be tried and tested.
    "A Man Who Is Too Afraid To Admit His Fears Is A Man Who Won't Overcome Them.
    There Is Liberty In Confession And Freedom In Acknowledgment."


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  3. #33
    Shadow's Avatar
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    I'd prefer it if you wouldn't lie to me.
    Lie about?

    Yet you do not quote these scripture which hold truth, and instead claim all scripture holds truth. Though you then come back with another blanket statement, claiming "most scriptures also hold some sort of falseness". Well, if you acknowledge that most scripture hold some sort of falseness then why do you insist upon following such scripture.
    My religious beliefs are written in my scripture which holds the truth of living life in the way I believe is right. Do you want me to quote everything from the scripture? You are free to read through it and quote something you think is false and we can debate it. I said "most", I believe my religion holds the truth and there isn't any falseness, but like I said you can debate that because I don't even consider other religion/atheist to have the same views. Theres means of finding the truth with every religion just not to the full extent. Imagine you are doing a test, you go to the teacher's desk and see two cheat sheets, you see two but one has more answers than the other. Which cheat sheet will you take? Obviously the one with more answers, if you still don't understand my point then I think you shouldn't even debate.

    Wait, how about no. Instead, why don't you write out for me exactly what it is I see as truth in Sikhism's scripture.
    Quote taken from the Guru Granth Sahib, 500 years ago which was written before Galileo discovered our solar system or before galaxies were discovered or known.

    "Many millions are the fields of creation and galaxies. Many millions are the skies and solar systems. Many millions are divine incarnations. He has unfolded Himself in so many ways. He has expanded His expansion of creation many times. Forever and ever, He is the One, the One Universal Creator. Many millions are created in various forms. From God they emanate, and into God they merge once again. His limits are not known to anyone. O Nanak, God exists by Himself." - Guru Nanak Dev Ji

    Got any other quotes you may want to pull and say they are false? I'll gladly debate them with you.

    Just because it is natural, does not mean it is ideal or justified.
    Nature is natural, if you believe in evolution then you would know that we don't just pop out body parts unless theres a need for them. This goes into context with anything else that is considered natural.

    So you decide who are the true Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs, not those who claim to be such. Forgive me, for you must be the truest of all the Scotsmen.
    Did I say that I decide? You honestly don't seem to comprehend what i'm saying. People who follow the teachings of their religion and scripture are those true of their religion. So if i'm a Christian and I don't go to church, don't read the bible and disobey half the stuff written in the bible. I am a true Christian because I identify myself as one according to your point?

    Aye there's the rub. You must be more intelligent than all others who follow Sikhism because you know that what you believe in is idiocy incarnate.
    Theres that, you probably don't know one thing about Sikhism yet you go on and start taking a shit just because its a religion. Proves how naive you really are, mind I ask what you believe in?

    Let me put this out as best as I can, God isn't a literal entity, there is no gender or description of what or who God is.
    God is formless, you experience God yet you cannot put a description on what God is. I've seen religious debates on youtube and what i've seen is that a lot religious people no matter what religion have experienced god. This may sound stupid as it did first to me but before you reply to this you may go and want to watch some videos.

    Watch the full video to get a better point of view or go straight to 9:05 and watch it from there.



    Sikhs wear a turban covering their head, hindus talk about the 7th chakra being located on top of the head and it is practised in yoga, Buddhists talk about the Thousand Petaled Lotus. If you look at different religions theres a mention of feeling some thing up in your head (the brain) where your "spirit" is. These are all experiences about experiencing god.

    No, the holy scripture reads not to rape or murder and also ask them to mutilate their children.
    My religious scripture holds no accounts of mutilation, instead we are encouraged to keep our body as natural (Uncut hair). Our body has a natural regeneration system of shedding of hair like if hair falls out, more hair takes it's place.

    Bhai Taru Singh Ji was matyred by cutting of his scalp when he refused Emperor Zakaria Khan's appeal to let them cut his hair.

    Bhai Mani Singh Ji's body was chopped to pieces joint by joint starting from the extremities after he was asked by the Qazi to choose converting to Islam or face
    death.

    Bhai Sukha Singh Mehtaab Singh: Bhai Mehtaab Singh was publicly broken on the 'wheel'. The 'wheel' an ancient torture device was a most painful mode of killing someone.

    Note that amongst the people above including hundreds of thousands of sikhs under the Mughal reign gave their lives to keep their bodies as natural as possible. Though you may not believe in religion, it's hard to deny that all these people had experienced God and they weren't just throwing their lives away for something "as stupid as hair" as you probably would put it.

    I think before you go around judging me or my beliefs you should read over my scripture and figure out what my point of view is on life. Sikhism is much different than the religions you have read scriptures about.
    Last edited by Shadow; 05-16-2016 at 12:53 AM.

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  4. #34
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    To everyone saying the animals in the Ark could be sick, hungry, require too much attention, and crap...They were put to sleep by Noah's Family (I'm a religious person and I'm not afraid to get Roasted here )

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  5. #35
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    From my theology and lessons with the Bible and being a Christian myself, I have been able to accept that there was a time before us, based on reading the Bible and reconnecting the Old and New Testaments.

    What I have drawn from this is there was always light, I mean the Bible even states that God is light so this isn't a flaw as it clearly has been stated that there can be other forms of light.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cohen View Post

    To add to this, I don't see how they'd be able to have enough food for all of the animals.
    The boat would have been a massacre of most of the animals; you can't expect all animals to be together in one place to just get along.
    Also, I don't see how every animal could be in one place when some animals can only live in certain conditions that would kill most other animals.
    Daniel was thrown into a lion's den and God had shut their mouths.

    Also, meat wasn't eaten back before the flood. Only after did God allow the eating of meat. Before, it was just crops. Look it up

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeRohsoft View Post
    Okay, one Question..
    If the Ark Story is true, God is a Mass Murderer, right?
    Why i should pray for him?
    To Kill me too? I think i get this goal without God, too

    Religion is only for People who are too lazy for using their brains. Thats my oppinion.
    You could think that but there is a reason why he did that. If you actually read the Bible, you will see that the world was sinful, thus he had to reset the earth again
    Last edited by Ahlwong; 05-16-2016 at 05:51 PM.

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  6. #36
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    The bible itself was written over centuries by dozens of authors, if you believe in God then assuming the bible is God's final word is foolish. Many of the authors directly contradict each others words all while saying God spoke through them.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlwong View Post
    ...
    You could think that but there is a reason why he did that. If you actually read the Bible, you will see that the world was sinful, thus he had to reset the earth again
    And in which reason he was able to do it? Beacuse he is "Allmighty"?

    Ok, another Question.. If God is "Allmighty", can he create a Stone which is too large and weight too many God could carry?
    Doesn't matter what you answer on this Question, you will see: Nobody can be "Allmighty", except Chuck Norris.

    I'm sorry, but i have to stop now to answering on this Thread, or i will die by laughing.

  8. #38
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    The Bible is just a fairy tale. Floating people with wings that are controlled by some higher being. And this Ark bullshit.
    We was on it when it weren't real, now the sudden niggas wanna come around. - Meek Mill #DC4




  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeRohsoft View Post
    And in which reason he was able to do it? Beacuse he is "Allmighty"?

    Ok, another Question.. If God is "Allmighty", can he create a Stone which is too large and weight too many God could carry?
    Doesn't matter what you answer on this Question, you will see: Nobody can be "Allmighty", except Chuck Norris.

    I'm sorry, but i have to stop now to answering on this Thread, or i will die by laughing.
    No actually because he is 'holy'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Though you may not believe in religion, it's hard to deny that all these people had experienced God and they weren't just throwing their lives away for something "as stupid as hair" as you probably would put it.
    Although I would find it hilarious to deconstruct some of the points you've made that for some reason seem to make sense in your head, I won't because I'm on mobile. I'd just like to debate this point.

    It is not hard to deny that these people have felt God. If I walked up to you and told you I was touched spiritually by a purple unicorn you'd most likely not believe me. Same goes for the case with God, you may say God has touched you but I'll never believe it. Why?
    Mostly to do with being sane.
    The human mind can make you feel things when in reality it hasn't happened.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlwong View Post
    From my theology and lessons with the Bible and being a Christian myself, I have been able to accept that there was a time before us, based on reading the Bible and reconnecting the Old and New Testaments.
    So in short "I believe what I've spent my life being told". You base your beliefs off of an acient book with so many inaccuracies and expect to be treated as sane.

    You are so deluded I feel sorry for you.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Gray View Post
    I'm not here for a debate. I just wanted to point out a couple of things.

    On the first day God separated light and darkness.
    But on the fourth day God created the sun and the stars, how could any light exist before the Sun and the stars.

    The Adam and Eve story, Adam lived to be 930 years old.

    Cane was married, but the only other people in existence at the time were his parents and brothers.

    The Ark had THOUSANDS of animals, how were all of them tended by just eight people?

    A boat the size of the Ark could never have held two of every animal, the ark would have bigger than the size of four baseball stadiums.

    How did a dove return with an olive leave, when no olive tree could possibly have survived an apocalyptic flood.

    Have a nice day.



    ==Statement==
    (On the first day God separated light and darkness.
    But on the fourth day God created the sun and the stars, how could any light exist before the Sun and the stars.)

    ==Answer==
    You're first statement is wrong, what you say is true but in the wrong order.. maybe its a different version of the bible you're reading, but I recommend the King James version.
    1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    4.And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    So really he created light before the darkness and light were separated.

    ==Statement==
    (The Adam and Eve story, Adam lived to be 930 years old.
    Cane was married, but the only other people in existence at the time were his parents and brothers.)

    ==Answer==
    Lets start off by saying you are correct, Cane was married but he didn't just have his parents and brothers... sure they would of had to marry each other, but to grow the population. So the oldest brother Cane killed his younger Abel (Genesis 4:1-2 ). After Abel's death they had another son named Seth, that was when Adam was 130, after that they continued to have have many sons and daughters for the next 800 years before his death. (Genesis 5:3-4)


    ==Statement==
    (The Ark had THOUSANDS of animals, how were all of them tended by just eight people?
    A boat the size of the Ark could never have held two of every animal, the ark would have bigger than the size of four baseball stadiums.
    How did a dove return with an olive leave, when no olive tree could possibly have survived an apocalyptic flood.)

    ==Answer==
    Now I really have no idea how he built the ark, all we know is that the ark was 300 cubits by 50 by 30, letting it be 520 feet 8 inches long by 86 feet 9.3 inches wide. sitting it at 52 feet 0.8 inches high. I really have no idea how they kept the animals there and how they tended to them with only 8 people. since I'm guessing you aren't much of a religious person, not seeing why you went as far as going right to the boat, when the animals weren't gathered up. they all pretty much just came on their own to Noah.
    Now for the dove and the olive tree, Water levels change all the time, I doubt the whole earth was covered in water for the entire 40 days they were on the boat. so land must of been shown somewhere for the tree to grow. nothing survived the flood that wasn't on the boat or didn't live in the water. not sure if i left anything out but I'm about to leave wifi and this has been a great way to kill some time.

    Have a good day!

  12. #42
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    [QUOTE=Confluency;11636829][FONT="Microsoft Sans Serif"][COLOR="Black"][SIZE="2"]

    [QUOTE]Although I would find it hilarious to deconstruct some of the points you've made that for some reason seem to make sense in your head, I won't because I'm on mobile. I'd just like to debate this point.

    It is not hard to deny that these people have felt God. If I walked up to you and told you I was touched spiritually by a purple unicorn you'd most likely not believe me. Same goes for the case with God, you may say God has touched you but I'll never believe it. Why?
    Mostly to do with being sane.
    The human mind can make you feel things when in reality it hasn't happened.[QUOTE]

    Please deconstruct those points, I would love to see what is so "hilarious" about them. I just love when people try to "debate", but don't actually put up arguments.
    I utterly hate people who say stupid shit like "how do you believe that", in this case "make sense in your head". Clearly you are an atheist, I won't even bring up anything other than it is obvious you don't understand religion. Therefore there's no reason for you to say anything along those lines because bringing that up in a debate is stupid as fuck. If you really think that all religious people that believe in God are mentally ill and nothing makes sense in their brain's then don't even bother debating?

    If I walked up to you and told you I was touched spiritually by a purple unicorn you'd most likely not believe me. Same goes for the case with God, you may say God has touched you but I'll never believe it. Why?
    No I would not believe you, neither am I even attempting to make you believe in the same views as me or believe me. But when it comes to numbers, if large groups of people have experienced it then the chances of it actually being true would be higher? I in no way think that anyone that doesn't believe in a "God" is stupid, I actually respect the views of these people rather than people who follow a religion and don't even know anything about their religion or practise it.

    The human mind can make you feel things when in reality it hasn't happened.
    True, but when you have probably hundreds of millions of people who actually have "experienced" God, do you think its all made up in their mind? I won't say anything about that statement because it is logical in sense.

    Have you ever looked at something and thought why does that exist? Why do I exist? Why does anything exist? What is anything?

    If you take this question and think about it, "Why does anything exist"?

    Theres two answers...
    1) A Creater/God/Divinity
    2) We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here...

    There may be another answer but who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    My religious beliefs are written in my scripture which holds the truth of living life in the way I believe is right.
    You seem to like to talk about Nature, but let's discuss Nurture. You believe your religious views are right because they fall in line with the way you think life should be lived. This is not because you came out of the womb thinking that, but because you were raised being deluded into the teachings of a religion. Although I don't find any serious problems in the Sikh religion (in comparison to other religions) I do personally find problems with believing in an omnipotent being with no reasonable evidence to believe so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Theres means of finding the truth with every religion just not to the full extent. Imagine you are doing a test, you go to the teacher's desk and see two cheat sheets, you see two but one has more answers than the other. Which cheat sheet will you take? Obviously the one with more answers, if you still don't understand my point then I think you shouldn't even debate.
    Cute.
    The cheat sheets offer definitive answers to the questions the students have with years of research to back up those answers.
    Seems we like comparisons..
    If I walk up to a teacher with a test he marked, and for the sake of simplicity one of the questions was "what is 2+2". I answer 4 obviously, but to my surprise he marks it wrong. I confront him and ask him how it could possibly be wrong and his response is "I've been touched by God, and he has told me spiritually the answer is 5."
    I go home and do some research, and no matter what evidence I provide to the teacher that proves otherwise he just responds with "You have to believe".

    Sounds insane doesn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Note that amongst the people above including hundreds of thousands of sikhs under the Mughal reign gave their lives to keep their bodies as natural as possible. Though you may not believe in religion, it's hard to deny that all these people had experienced God and they weren't just throwing their lives away for something "as stupid as hair" as you probably would put it.
    Yes, that is exactly how I would put it. It is absolutely insane to piss away your life for something that there is NO DEFINITIVE EVIDENCE OF.

    Don't get me wrong, I respect the morals that Shikhs have and their tolerance I've witnessed for gays, atheists, for other things. But I will never get behind wilful ignorance is regards to the belief of a supreme being.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confluency View Post


    Although I would find it hilarious to deconstruct some of the points you've made that for some reason seem to make sense in your head, I won't because I'm on mobile. I'd just like to debate this point.

    It is not hard to deny that these people have felt God. If I walked up to you and told you I was touched spiritually by a purple unicorn you'd most likely not believe me. Same goes for the case with God, you may say God has touched you but I'll never believe it. Why?
    Mostly to do with being sane.
    The human mind can make you feel things when in reality it hasn't happened.




    So in short "I believe what I've spent my life being told". You base your beliefs off of an acient book with so many inaccuracies and expect to be treated as sane.

    You are so deluded I feel sorry for you.
    The Bible is the most accurate book about history. I'm sorry if you don't believe what I believe but I didn't believe this my entire life.

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    Confluency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Clearly you are an atheist
    Yes I'm an atheist, I just quoted this because I find it funny that thinking logically automatically makes you an atheist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    But when it comes to numbers, if large groups of people have experienced it then the chances of it actually being true would be higher? I in no way think that anyone that doesn't believe in a "God" is stupid, I actually respect the views of these people rather than people who follow a religion and don't even know anything about their religion or practise it.
    What? Since when does large groups believing in something increase its chances it truthfulness? Large groups of people believed the earth was flat. Once again a stupid, illogical deluded statement. I don't respect your views or opinions, respect isn't to be thrown around and demanded. The only thing I need to do is listen to your views, and THEN tell you how stupid they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Have you ever looked at something and thought why does that exist? Why do I exist? Why does anything exist? What is anything?

    If you take this question and think about it, "Why does anything exist"?

    Theres two answers...
    1) A Creater/God/Divinity
    2) We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here...

    There may be another answer but who knows?
    This is the icing on the cake for me, this is what I find so hilarious about the Religious.
    Yes, I question my existence and the existence of everything else....
    But guess what? I don't jump to the conclusion that I was created by pink elephant gods, why? Because there is nothing to support that belief.
    So No I don't think that the answer could "possibly" be an all knowin "god" or "creator" until I'm presented with something that could allow me to exude that belief.

    That second answer is pretty funny, you downplay the fact that we could be here for no reason by mocking it as some sort of joke. And that's the problem, religion has deluded you so much that it sounds insane to you that we could be here for absolutely no reason.

    Anyways, apologies for any typos or errors. I double checked but it's so hard to elaborate on my points because I'm on mobile unfortunately.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlwong View Post
    The Bible is the most accurate book about history. I'm sorry if you don't believe what I believe but I didn't believe this my entire life.

    https://carm.org/can-we-trust-new-te...rical-document
    Ah yes, I've heard the before.

    You realize when I refer to the inaccuracies in the story I'm talking about the talking snakes, people splitting oceans in half, and those other insane stories. I'm not referring to the times these things might have or might have not taken place.
    Here's something I read that I found to be insightful

    " Also, archeology might support the context of a story. Meaning, the locations of a story may be known and identified. The vocabulary used in the story (such as titles of nobility) may be confirmed. The values of money mentioned in the story might be accurate. But there may be no archeological evidence for the given story itself. "

    P.s : I think actual History books would be considered the most historically accurate.
    Last edited by Confluency; 05-18-2016 at 10:56 PM.

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