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  1. #1
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    Refugees ARE a problem.

    Getting a bit tired of people saying refugees are not a problem.

    A big problem is that terrorists can easily hide in with the refugees to infiltrate countries and cause terror. Not sure how pro refugees have argued against this besides saying that they need to be checked... Still easy to infiltrate.

    Another problem is religion. Most of the refugees are Muslims. This means that refugees will be bringing more and more of their religion to non mainly Muslim countries. Most Americans have accepted being gay as a normal thing and most Americans really don't care if you're gay or not. But bringing a community that hates gays into a country that has no problem with gays will NOT end well. As we have seen in Germany Muslim refugees terrorize gays.

    Another problem is economy. Letting people into your country who truly have nothing and need lots of food and shelter will really hurt the economy. Most likely tax payers will start paying for their food and shelter, which will cause an uproar with tax payers.

    And another problem is the Government will take care of them. It's already known that people can easily be lazy as fuck and be taken care of by the government. Since most people who are being taken care of by the government are below middle class, who do you think they're going to influence? When refugees see it's super easy to rely on the government, they'll grow up being lazy as fuck too.

    There are more risks/cons than their are pros. It is truly sad that these people have to flee their country, but it's bringing chaos to countries that let them in and will bring chaos to countries that let them in.

    These are all my opinions anyway, so if you disagree with anything, reply and say why you disagree.

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    I'll be real this time. Refugees are indeed a problem, while some of them are genuine, terrorists can come in as a refugee and basically there goes another shooting or something. It's too much of a risk to have refugees come into our country just for a few people to get out of their country. You need to think of the greater good.

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    I will answer once the movie I´m watching is over.
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    My opinions/replies to statements are as follows:

    1)A big problem is that terrorists can easily hide in with the refugees to infiltrate countries and cause terror. Not sure how pro refugees have argued against this besides saying that they need to be checked... Still easy to infiltrate.

    Sure, theoretically terrorists can come to countries pretending to be refugees. However, as far as I know, every time I hear of a terror attack, mass shooting, etc. the perpetrator always seems to be someone who has been living in the nation for a long time. So I think the idea of refugee terrorists is just an idea that doesn't actually really happen but rather just a scary thought. In other words, if you're scared of Muslim terrorists, be more scared of your Muslim neighbors than the refugees because I have yet to hear a story about someone coming into our nation as a refugee and then turning out to be a terrorist.

    Edit: Nevermind, decided to search for news stories about refugee attacks and there are a few cases.

    2) Another problem is religion. Most of the refugees are Muslims. This means that refugees will be bringing more and more of their religion to non mainly Muslim countries. Most Americans have accepted being gay as a normal thing and most Americans really don't care if you're gay or not. But bringing a community that hates gays into a country that has no problem with gays will NOT end well. As we have seen in Germany Muslim refugees terrorize gays.

    I want to say that it's wrong to assume that all Muslims hate gays. I mean it would make sense to some extent since a couple of Muslim countries still kill you for being gay. But I have never met refugees and all the Muslims up here in the super liberal northeast are fine with gays. So I guess I'm on the fence about that point. You make a good point.

    3) Another problem is economy. Letting people into your country who truly have nothing and need lots of food and shelter will really hurt the economy. Most likely tax payers will start paying for their food and shelter, which will cause an uproar with tax payers.

    That is true. I would hate to pay more taxes though I feel the need to take care of fellow human beings. I like having money but I want to help people. So once again, I'm on the fence on that point too.

    4) And another problem is the Government will take care of them. It's already known that people can easily be lazy as fuck and be taken care of by the government. Since most people who are being taken care of by the government are below middle class, who do you think they're going to influence? When refugees see it's super easy to rely on the government, they'll grow up being lazy as fuck too.

    I always hear the story of how when the government takes care of its people, it makes them lazy. That the whole welfare system makes people lazy. Not 100% sure, but I don't think the government provides a livable income for people. Sure the government may provide support, but I'm pretty sure people will still have to find another way to get money.


    I use to be very pro-refugees because I like to see myself as a humanitarian. I live in the extremely liberal northeast, so. Anyways, once summer rolled around and I have heard the arguments provided by those on the other side, I would say that my point of view has changed and that I now sit on the fence on the issue. As I somewhat mentioned, I want to help these people...but at what costs?
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  6. #5
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    It is without a doubt obvious the "refugees" ARE a problem but the are not THE problem. Problem in this case are the countries who lay waste to people homes from bullshit reasons and politics. These actions are the ones which make refugees such a target for terrorist and hate.
    What i`ve said before is that people can`t blame them or think that they are the ones to blame.

    They did not decide to become refugees. Their lives were robbed from them and now they have to find somewhere to go because their place of living is now completely destroyed. Refugees as definition are a huge problem for the whole world as you stated above @Cursed Terrorist use them for their advantage and many other bad things come from them.

    They never wanted to become refugees, the ones that are to blame are the countries who have done this to them. Of course they are threat and a problem, but refugees as individuals aren`t the ones to blame for all the shit that has happened because of refugees all over the world.

  7. #6
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    Could someone please source the actual cost of providing essential needs to refugees? Or are we just pulling blatant lies out of our asses to make our rhetoric seem more believable? I'd bet that the government spends more money on providing politicians free flights across the world then providing for refugees. In reality it's not effecting the economy very much.

    Once again, I understand the right wing propoganda would make you believe refugees are a terroristic threat but they aren't. Most of these terrorist attacks are done by people who have successfully immigrated into the country or were born in their respective country, in which they have committed the crime.

    Here are stats if you don't believe me.
    http://www.migrationpolicy.org/news/...are-not-threat

    The only valid argument you have presented here is that it is hard to get Islamists to accept our culture. This is a very good point and the only point I can agree with.

    Nothing else you claim is backed up by any sort of evidence besides the headlines you read on the internet and the news.

    So to answer your question.
    Refugees are not the problem, people jumping to conclusions based on their fear of other people are.
    Last edited by Confluency; 07-24-2016 at 09:00 PM.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confluency View Post
    Could someone please source the actual cost of providing essential needs to refugees? Or are we just pulling blatant lies out of our asses to make our rhetoric seem more believable? I'd bet that the government spends more money on providing politicians free flights across the world then providing for refugees. In reality it's not effecting the economy very much.

    Once again, I understand the right wing propoganda would make you believe refugees are a terroristic threat but they aren't. Most of these terrorist attacks are done by people who have successfully immigrated into the country or were born in their respective country, in which they have committed the crime.

    Here are stats if you don't believe me.
    http://www.migrationpolicy.org/news/...are-not-threat

    The only valid argument you have presented here is that it is hard to get Islamists to accept our culture. This is a very good point and the only point I can agree with.

    Nothing else you claim is backed up by any sort of evidence besides the headlines you read on the internet and the news.

    So to answer your question.
    Refugees are not the problem, people jumping to conclusions based on their fear of other people are.
    Highly doubt refugees living cost will be deducted from anything but tax paying dollars. And I'm sure Germany thought refugees weren't a threat too, but stuff ain't going too well there. Germany is your example bud, they let refugees in and 2 terrorist(Refugee) attacks have happened that I know of.
    Last edited by Cursed; 07-24-2016 at 10:15 PM.




     

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  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursed View Post


    Highly doubt refugees living cost will be deducted from anything but tax paying dollars. And I'm sure Germany thought refugees weren't a thread too, but stuff ain't going too well there. Germany is your example bud, they let refugees in and 2 terrorist(Refugee) attacks have happened that I know of.
    You didn't present anything substantial to your argument.

    Everything you say is pure opinion, my point is what evidence do you have that states refugees are causing enough damage to the economy to worry about?

    Also once again, 2 cases (according to you) out of the hundreds of thousands let into europe. Like the link I posted said, out of all the refugees allowed into America THREE have been tied to any terrorist groups. Keep in mind that this stat is since 9/11 where you would expect an increase of refugees being terrorists.

    I ask you this, if I made a thread arguing that guns should be banned due to the many shootings that happen in America would you have the same view point as this issue? What if there were only two shootings in the U.S and I was still calling for guns to be outlawed? It's the same thing.

    Probably not, because the amount of bad people with guns are FAR less than the amount of good people with guns. (P.s this is a comparison, I don't want guns banned lol)

    Refugees are not a problem.
    Last edited by Confluency; 07-24-2016 at 10:24 PM.

  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confluency View Post


    You didn't present anything substantial to your argument.

    Everything you say is pure opinion, my point is what evidence do you have that states refugees are causing enough damage to the economy to worry about?

    Also once again, 2 cases (according to you) out of the hundreds of thousands let into europe. Like the link I posted said, out of all the refugees allowed into America THREE have been tied to any terrorist groups. Keep in mind that this stat is since 9/11 where you would expect an increase of refugees being terrorists.

    I ask you this, if I made a thread arguing that guns should be banned due to the many shootings that happen in America would you have the same view point as this issue? What if there were only two shootings in the U.S and I was still calling for guns to be outlawed? It's the same thing.

    Probably not, because the amount of bad people with guns are FAR less than the amount of good people with guns. (P.s this is a comparison, I don't want guns banned lol)

    Refugees are not a problem.
    So you think bringing mass amounts of people with nothing(poor) into the US will not hurt the economy? And as I stated in OP. This is opinionated.




     

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  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursed View Post


    So you think bringing mass amounts of people with nothing(poor) into the US will not hurt the economy? And as I stated in OP. This is opinionated.
    Im aware it's opinionated. But in my post I asked for stats of it having any major effects on the economy and you didn't provide any.

    I'm not saying that bringing in refugees will/will not effect the economy. I'm asking what evidence have you come across that made you come to the conclusion that it will have a major impact on the economy.

    Edit: The government has given a budget of 265 million dollars to resettle 10,000 refugees. Do you honestly think a country who collected 3.02 trillion in taxes in 2014 will be effected by a couple hundred million?
    Last edited by Confluency; 07-24-2016 at 10:45 PM.

  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confluency View Post


    Im aware it's opinionated. But in my post I asked for stats of it having any major effects on the economy and you didn't provide any.

    I'm not saying that bringing in refugees will/will not effect the economy. I'm asking what evidence have you come across that made you come to the conclusion that it will have a major impact on the economy.
    There is no way of knowing the future. But think about it:
    The people will be put in government paid for projects and be put on welfare which is also government paid for. Now when they come in in bigger masses more money will have to be spent which will add even more debt to the US. Unlikely, but the US may increase tax cuts for money to fund the projects.




     

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  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursed View Post


    There is no way of knowing the future. But think about it:
    The people will be put in government paid for projects and be put on welfare which is also government paid for. Now when they come in in bigger masses more money will have to be spent which will add even more debt to the US. Unlikely, but the US may increase tax cuts for money to fund the projects.
    I edited my last post, and you raise a good point with welfare. But I can almost guarantee the effect of 10,000 extra people on welfare will be negligible. And I highly doubt all of them will live their lives on welfare. They will want to better themselves.

    At the end of the day, as long as you aren't bringing over people in masses like Germany you will be fine. The terrorist threat and economy issues are statistically irrelevant.
    Last edited by Confluency; 07-24-2016 at 10:49 PM.

  15. #13
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    In Australia, people are on welfare at a stupid amount. The amount of 10,000 is seemingly noticeable, but only on the books. We're a high taxed country (GST) and we see more and more people get on what we call "The Dole". The issue I see with this isn't that there's so many refugee's, but in a sense that there's a problem that's already inside many European countries that have had recent attacks lately.

    The last few attacks were people who had already been in the country for more time then the refugee crisis has been going on. These are people that are apart of "Non-integrated" communities. People who refuse to accept the laws and language of the country that is hosting them, and they congregate together in one massive community. The recent Nice attack, showed this. The attacker was known to police, and they were part of one of these communities. Then, recently witth raids on Mosque's in Europe, weapons were found. Refugee's can't just suddenly plant these weapons, no. These were there because people already in the country brought them there.

    The issue I see here, and I think many other people would to, is that the people who refuse to integrate are the issue. Without a doubt, I would happily see these communities broken up, and forceably removed. Australia is a country built on immigration, and we actually have Anti-Muslim protests, with Anti-racism protesters coming out and clashing. These are the people who are believing this dribble about the refugee crisis and that all Muslims and refugees are indeed terrorists. It doesn't take someone more then 5 minutes to realize the numbers game here being blown out of proportion.

    I think it's not about the refugees at all.

    I haven't been on here in 4 years...

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    Well honestly , the refugees are a problem to some countries.I agree with that , but also it's not their fault as you say that they had to flee their countries.
    In the case of my country they're really not a literate problem , they're just passing through it , at least the biggest % of them are.
    People here don't like them as they don't like Muslims , but really don't like Muslims.
    And the government wont take care of them , they let them sleep in parks , and that nonsense how they'll take our jobs , pure bs.

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    I wont attack you because you started a discussion that is important. There are some severe mistakes you made.

    The first mistake isn't realy a mistake but let me explain. You said "terrorists can easily hide in with the refugees to infiltrate countries and cause terror". Thats not wrong but it is wrong the way you put it. An organisation like the ISIS wont need to send their members on a long, dangerous way to europe because they have enough recources and specialist that can fake passports. And almost every terrorists that made an attack in europe lived there for a long time. I heared in Berlin alone there are 2000 muslim extremist that said they would kill for their religion.

    You said "As we have seen in Germany Muslim refugees terrorize gays.". Could you give me a source I dont know what you are talking about.

    Maybie the biggest mistake is that you said that refugees are bad for the economy. Sure at first there needs to be money spend but after that they are, and that might be a bit harsh, cheap worker. You can pay them the minimum wage and you profit.

    The third mistake is that you said that some or a lot refugees are lazy or get lazy. I live in Berlin, we have a ton of refugees here and almost all of them want to work. They cant but they want to.

    As you said that is my opinion reply if you disagree but dont reply if you argument like trump because he arguments on a personal level and the arguments that arent are bad.

    Please dont hate me for mistakes. I wrote it in a rush and its not my native language.


    Oh and what I forgot to say is that refugees arent not a problem at all.

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