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  1. #61
    Maddoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    I have no issue accepting that scientist invented some of the worlds greatest killing machines, why would you even assume I would have issue with this? What you seem to not understand is the purposes behind these inventions, read a few books on Alfred Nobel (inventor of dynamite and the Nobel Peace prize) or Robert Oppenheimer (lead scientist of the Manhattan project), these men went out of their way to perfect warfare not so that more wars can be fought, but so that man would see the horrors of war and would never dare to fight ever again. They thought if people would see just how powerful these weapons are, they wouldn't dare to fight ever again. But what happens is fervent nationalism, ideologies and ultimately religion divide the human race. Only when we see ourselves as different do we have an easier time killing each other, when in reality we aren't very different at all.


    Read my post, justifying war and causing war are different.


    Religions do provide a beneficial service but ultimately they don't do anything that secular groups aren't doing, the only reason religious groups are better at it is because they get more money from the congregations. The harm religion causes far out weighs any good that it may cause, this is very well illustrated in one of the Intelligence^2 debates:
    YouTube - The Intelligence Squared Debate, Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry vs The Catholics (1 of 5)
    It's a five part debate so you may want to open it in another window if you watch it (however I doubt any of you will, god forbid you have to listen to people talk for more than 5 minutes)


    Not all scientists are nonbelievers admittedly a disproportionate amount are, relative to the general non-scientist population. It's not that scientists are philanthropists and religious people are all malicious pricks, they both are trying to do what they think is best, science just happens to be a more effective means to achieve improved societal well-being.


    You really have this fantastically diluted understanding of who scientists are.



    I clearly pointed out why this is incorrect and regarding the pro-evolution scientists... you know you just described practically every scientist?
    Level of support for evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Scientists may appear smug to you because it gets amazingly frustrating to have some trucker walk up to you and ask you if you "believe in evilution", then when you tell them "sure", they give you a completely inane, piss-poor argument and expect you to be convinced that the research and rigorous testing done by the entirety of the scientific community is disproven by the crockaduck.






    Wow, talking about completely inane, piss-poor arguments...
    I honestly can't do through two sentences in your post without face-palming because of all the monumental ignorance you spew. Let me introduce you to fractal-wrongness, because you kind sir are the epitome of it.
    Well then you should have corrected me. Wait, you can't, you can't even spell "evolution" right. -_______-

    My POINT is, how many religious people do you see making a nuclear bomb and sharing the technology so that somebody can find out and use it, and now we're in a Nuclear Threat worse than during the war. Even your president (Obama) says that. Science has proved only that there are things that our outside human perspective (ie The exploding of the sun, molecular enhancement). Tell me where the beginning of everything came from. Oh wait, you can't, because they don't KNOW. Religious people know. Their god did it. The Big Bang DID happen, yes, but how was it caused, and whatever caused it, where did that come from? Keep asking yourself this. Also, if you think of what Empire said, he is 100% right; how many scientists live in an apartment and donate all the fuckin money they get to charities? That would, NONE. And you CAN'T SAY that cancers haven't been started from the Nuclear Bombings, because it's TRUE, and YOU KNOW IT. Who made the nuclear bomb? Not the RELIGIOUS GUY, the SCIENTIST. Because of scientists and them sending up countless space ships (and they're building a space port where TOURISTS can go into space), we now live in smog infested cities. And does perfecting, PERFECTING, war make them good people!? People who make war machines are horrible people; to make a war end, you don't need to fire one damn bomb that takes out MILLIONS of people with the Cause and Effect of the Nuke. Religion doesn't dictate "Oh look, he's gonna kill the family I've loved all my life. Do I stop him, or hug him and encourage to do it?" Thats what scientists are doing; people see the weapons they make as a threat to their well-being. If someone had a gun against your head, who made that gun? Scientists. What are you gonna do about it? Give the guy trying to KILL YOU a hug and say "Thanks man. Science is amazing huh? Killing people for no reason." And you CAN'T know what the Scientists were thinking when they made the weapons they have, unless you were them. Who's to say some scientist was acting all good and happy, but inside his fucked up mind some demonic little shit was running around like "Im gonna kill all of those fuckers someday!" Bam.


  2. #62
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    Well then you should have corrected me. Wait, you can't, you can't even spell "evolution" right. -_______-

    My POINT is, how many religious people do you see making a nuclear bomb and sharing the technology so that somebody can find out and use it, and now we're in a Nuclear Threat worse than during the war. Even your president (Obama) says that. Science has proved only that there are things that our outside human perspective (ie The exploding of the sun, molecular enhancement). Tell me where the beginning of everything came from. Oh wait, you can't, because they don't KNOW. Religious people know. Their god did it. The Big Bang DID happen, yes, but how was it caused, and whatever caused it, where did that come from? Keep asking yourself this. Also, if you think of what Empire said, he is 100% right; how many scientists live in an apartment and donate all the fuckin money they get to charities? That would, NONE. And you CAN'T SAY that cancers haven't been started from the Nuclear Bombings, because it's TRUE, and YOU KNOW IT. Who made the nuclear bomb? Not the RELIGIOUS GUY, the SCIENTIST. Because of scientists and them sending up countless space ships (and they're building a space port where TOURISTS can go into space), we now live in smog infested cities. And does perfecting, PERFECTING, war make them good people!? People who make war machines are horrible people; to make a war end, you don't need to fire one damn bomb that takes out MILLIONS of people with the Cause and Effect of the Nuke. Religion doesn't dictate "Oh look, he's gonna kill the family I've loved all my life. Do I stop him, or hug him and encourage to do it?" Thats what scientists are doing; people see the weapons they make as a threat to their well-being. If someone had a gun against your head, who made that gun? Scientists. What are you gonna do about it? Give the guy trying to KILL YOU a hug and say "Thanks man. Science is amazing huh? Killing people for no reason." And you CAN'T know what the Scientists were thinking when they made the weapons they have, unless you were them. Who's to say some scientist was acting all good and happy, but inside his fucked up mind some demonic little shit was running around like "Im gonna kill all of those fuckers someday!" Bam.

    I'm surprised you're still going, some people have this innate feeling when they start saying things they don't have a firm understanding of, they feel a bit awkward and watch what they say because they fear someone might call them an absolute idiot. Apparently you don't experience that, so let me help you. You're a complete and utter idiot. If you truly want me to respond in an ordered manner just reply with "Please supply a retort for my claims." in the next post. Generally I don't take too much time to respond to fools of your magnitude but in this case I'll make an exception.

    I'm waiting to see If that's your final answer:
    Last edited by Paroxysm; 04-21-2010 at 09:19 PM.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  3. #63
    Empire's Avatar
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    watching vid you posted, but i gotta say, i personally think they could have picked a better speaker for the catholics. That and the whole audience is leaning way towards the Chris.

    That being said:
    -Guys quoting people who aren't there. Which is pretty much a gossip thing. really kinda bad move for an argument.
    -Then goes on to insult the other guy, to tell him to ask for apologies? What the fuck? I guess all the athies go "YEAH!" but to me, i'm just like, I thought we were talking about fucking shit here. Not playing the blame game on national(?) telivision.
    -Catholic church is horrible(sums up most of it).

    Woman:
    -Catholics helped in WWII with jews(chris said anti-semmitism).
    -Catholics good.
    -So should these organizations, but they didn't.
    -Aid to poor countries.
    -Message of salvation

    Fry:
    -Omg enough with the fucking Galileo shit. You fucking kidding me. So ONE guy got tortured how many years ago? The only argument this guy has with this is that the Church killed him. Well that would be great, cept its not even an argument. Its just saying that was his cause of death. Back then, things weren't anywhere NEAR as civil as now, but why would that matter? Burn the witch group mentality wasn't uncommon.
    -Catholics made some horrible guy a saint. Well fuck, its wrong, but what do i care. I'm not catholic.
    -Child rape, nope, seriously, Catholics= only real rape religion.
    -Honestly i can't defend this,
    1. I don't care.
    2. *sigh* put something on non-catholics.

    Debate:
    -Homesexual debate, what the fuck. Campaign shit?
    -Fry is kinda like "hey i am bringing up stuff again and again for a reason". Cept i'm just thinking "well because its an easy win-topic for your publicity".

    Really Paroxysm, the channel is called "Ihateallreligion"

    REALLY? like not leaning a certain way here?

    Please put a vid that isn't hating on catholics, i don't give a shit.
    Religion doesn't equal=Catholics.

    Another thing, you do realize the presentation right? The whole show was an attack versus the catholic church, with an audience who already disproved of them in the first place. What the fuck did you expect? That the majority who aren't catholic in the first place, who disprove of it, to somehow come around their beliefs that they already had in 30 minutes?. Stupid shit is basically propaganda.

    Its pointless to defend people you don't associate with, or care about.
    Last edited by Empire; 04-22-2010 at 12:02 AM.


  4. #64
    Synchromanica's Avatar
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    Hows about a question for you non-believers that's just as hard. Serious answers pl0x.

    Why is the Universe here instead of not?

    Off Topic: What the hell? Pl0x is a word? Why doesn't my Mac say it has a spelling error?

  5. #65
    Empire's Avatar
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    pl0x=please for internet slang.


  6. #66
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    watching vid you posted, but i gotta say, i personally think they could have picked a better speaker for the catholics. That and the whole audience is leaning way towards the Chris.

    That being said:
    -Guys quoting people who aren't there. Which is pretty much a gossip thing. really kinda bad move for an argument.
    -Then goes on to insult the other guy, to tell him to ask for apologies? What the fuck? I guess all the athies go "YEAH!" but to me, i'm just like, I thought we were talking about fucking shit here. Not playing the blame game on national(?) telivision.
    -Catholic church is horrible(sums up most of it).

    Woman:
    -Catholics helped in WWII with jews(chris said anti-semmitism).
    -Catholics good.
    -So should these organizations, but they didn't.
    -Aid to poor countries.
    -Message of salvation

    Fry:
    -Omg enough with the fucking Galileo shit. You fucking kidding me. So ONE guy got tortured how many years ago? The only argument this guy has with this is that the Church killed him. Well that would be great, cept its not even an argument. Its just saying that was his cause of death. Back then, things weren't anywhere NEAR as civil as now, but why would that matter? Burn the witch group mentality wasn't uncommon.
    -Catholics made some horrible guy a saint. Well fuck, its wrong, but what do i care. I'm not catholic.
    -Child rape, nope, seriously, Catholics= only real rape religion.
    -Honestly i can't defend this,
    1. I don't care.
    2. *sigh* put something on non-catholics.

    Debate:
    -Homesexual debate, what the fuck. Campaign shit?
    -Fry is kinda like "hey i am bringing up stuff again and again for a reason". Cept i'm just thinking "well because its an easy win-topic for your publicity".

    Really Paroxysm, the channel is called "Ihateallreligion"

    REALLY? like not leaning a certain way here?

    Please put a vid that isn't hating on catholics, i don't give a shit.
    Religion doesn't equal=Catholics.

    Another thing, you do realize the presentation right? The whole show was an attack versus the catholic church, with an audience who already disproved of them in the first place. What the fuck did you expect? That the majority who aren't catholic in the first place, who disprove of it, to somehow come around their beliefs that they already had in 30 minutes?. Stupid shit is basically propaganda.

    Its pointless to defend people you don't associate with, or care about.
    First.
    It doesn't matter whose side has the most people there, what matters is who changed more opinions.

    Second.
    The channel name is completely irrelevant to the message of the debate. Saying that atheists are pro-atheism is a bit redundant. I could have given you an apparently unbiased channel with the same video but that wouldn't change anything.
    This better for you?


    Third.
    You honestly expected Christopher to stay solely contemporary? His point was that history has shown the catholic church as a malicious force in the past. Just recently we've seen that the Pope is far more concerned with keeping the churches image than prosecuting child molesting priests and went out of his way to move priests around.

    Four.
    While religion doesn't = Catholic, Catholic does = Religion. You honestly want to see debates solely about the existence of Gods? I've seen a few here is how they go:
    religious dude: Yo but we don't know where all this shit came from though, so there must be a god...
    nonreligious dude: Logical fallacy nigga, God of the Gaps argument is fail.
    religious dude: Well science doesn't know everything man
    nonreligous dude: No shit, sherlock, but atleast science is trying to find the truth as apposed to just making some shit up and sticking with it.
    religious dude: but we have faith, which is like important and stuff
    nonreligous dude: Yo, faith dun prove shit
    religious dude: ya well your just closed minded
    nonreligious dude: O rely?
    religious dude: Check out the birds and the trees and the clouds, how can there not be a god.
    nonreligious dude: Yo we have explanations for the birds and the trees and the clouds, with shit like evidence and shit.
    religious dude: yo evidence is lies
    nonreligious dude: rely? Seems like every time we find something that doesn't jive with your shit it's a lie, but the birds and the trees and the clouds prove there's a god.
    religious dude: Due, means we're right.
    Moderator: Ok this debate is going no where...
    nonreligious dude: Ok dez niggas had thousands of years to get evidence for their claims and thus far all they gots are anecdotal evidence.
    religious dude: Well that evidence is from god
    nonreligious dude: how do you know that?
    religious dude: because the evidence that says there is a god, says that god made that evidence.
    nonreligious dude: doesn't that sound a bit like circular reasoning?
    religious dude: nuh uh.
    moderator: Ok, 90% of the world is still religious, religion wins.
    religious dude: Yay
    nonreligious dude: urrrrrg

    I encourage you, go ahead and check out some religion vs. non-religion debates, it pretty much boils down to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilInstinct View Post
    [SIZE="2"]Hows about a question for you non-believers that's just as hard. Serious answers pl0x.

    Why is the Universe here instead of not?
    /SIZE]
    Guess what nigga, we don't know. Frankly it's a bit of a silly question like asking what happened before the big bang, you're looking for profound answers where there may not be any. What we do know is that the universe does exist, and that's what matters.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  7. #67
    immortalxgod's Avatar
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    its because he has givin us free will

  8. #68
    Synchromanica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by immortalxgod View Post
    its because he has givin us free will
    QFT! Oh and why does the person in your sig look like he/she has a boner?

  9. #69
    Maddoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    Guess what nigga, we don't know. Frankly it's a bit of a silly question like asking what happened before the big bang, you're looking for profound answers where there may not be any. What we do know is that the universe does exist, and that's what matters.
    Actually, that matters alot right now, because if you can't prove comclusivly that a higher being (god) created everything, including the big bang, then your arguement is based solely on relating it to other sources of how he isn't real. IF god had no use for us, then why make us? We are here to DO something, but scientism and access to more for so long has made the human race greedy; they want more than they've got, or they want what was taken from them. If you got $1000, for example, would you spend it or save it? Most likely spend, because you don't know that maybe a couple weeks later you could need that money because you've been seriously injured. Everything has a beginning, an end, and a purpose. Religious people know the answers to all three of those, while scientists, know none. And quite frankly, your incongruous is a really simple-minded and feeble argument based over facts of evading the beginning question.

    Scientists are masters at evading questions with questions COMPLETELY irrelevent.

  10. #70
    Voltage552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    Bing Bang started by the space in between spaces being twisted epto-mechologically. IN other words, they had a group fuck.



    Umm, have you been drunk for the past 2 YEARS. They KNOW the Big Bang theory is real, because the universe is still exapnding because of that, they found the center of the universe, where it all originated, they KNOW the universe is 14 billion years old. BAM


    (srry for double post)
    rly? I thought it was the Big Bang THEORY not the Law of Big Bang...



    Don't expect any more public hacks from me.

    [SA Public]Voltage552 Hook! UNDETECTED - ALL OS

  11. #71
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    Actually, that matters alot right now, because if you can't prove comclusivly that a higher being (god) created everything, including the big bang, then your arguement is based solely on relating it to other sources of how he isn't real. IF god had no use for us, then why make us? We are here to DO something, but scientism and access to more for so long has made the human race greedy; they want more than they've got, or they want what was taken from them. If you got $1000, for example, would you spend it or save it? Most likely spend, because you don't know that maybe a couple weeks later you could need that money because you've been seriously injured. Everything has a beginning, an end, and a purpose. Religious people know the answers to all three of those, while scientists, know none. And quite frankly, your incongruous is a really simple-minded and feeble argument based over facts of evading the beginning question.

    Scientists are masters at evading questions with questions COMPLETELY irrelevent.
    Are you an imbecile? Have I ever stated that I can disprove the existence of a Gods? No, I can't disprove the existence of a God any better than I can disprove the existence of fairy's or unicorns or elves. It's not my job to disprove your God, you have the burden of proof to supply evidence for your God. All I do is point out that God's are used solely cover up our ignorance. We didn't know why it rained, God's did it. We didn't know why trees grew, God's did it. We didn't know why human beings existed, God's did it. But as our knowledge of the universe grows, God's get pushed further and further out of our focus and we begin to understand not only the workings of the universe, but also ourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    And quite frankly, your incongruous is a really simple-minded and feeble argument based over facts of evading the beginning question.
    I absolutely love this line, the one semi-coherent sentence you wrote and you obviously had to crack open a thesaurus to find "incongruous", who do you think your fooling? It's one thing to use "big words"(as Empire calls them) naturally as a part of your vocabulary, but to use them just to appear intellectual superior is disingenuous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltage552 View Post
    rly? I thought it was the Big Bang THEORY not the Law of Big Bang...
    You're confused because you don't know the difference between laws and theories in the scientific sense, spend five minutes to learn the difference between the two.
    Here I'll help you get started:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
    Last edited by Paroxysm; 04-22-2010 at 10:21 AM.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  12. #72
    Maddoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    Are you an imbecile? Have I ever stated that I can disprove the existence of a Gods? No, I can't disprove the existence of a God any better than I can disprove the existence of fairy's or unicorns or elves. It's not my job to disprove your God, you have the burden of proof to supply evidence for your God. All I do is point out that God's are used solely cover up our ignorance. We didn't know why it rained, God's did it. We didn't know why trees grew, God's did it. We didn't know why human beings existed, God's did it. But as our knowledge of the universe grows, God's get pushed further and further out of our focus and we begin to understand not only the workings of the universe, but also ourselves.


    I absolutely love this line, the one semi-coherent sentence you wrote and you obviously had to crack open a thesaurus to find "incongruous", who do you think your fooling? It's one thing to use "big words"(as Empire calls them) naturally as a part of your vocabulary, but to use them just to appear intellectual superior is disingenuous.



    You're confused because you don't know the difference between laws and theories in the scientific sense, spend five minutes to learn the difference between the two.
    Here I'll help you get started:
    Scientific theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    That's because, technically speaking, god's DID do all of that, because none of that would've happened if God or Alah or whatever made the universe. And I don't have a god, I'm atheist

    You can have an understanding of the universe all you want, it still doesn't change the fact that scientists are natural war-mongering killers in their own way. Prenda una crepa a questa frase, ragazzo.

  13. #73
    Empire's Avatar
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    Ok since there are already walls of text, i won't quote.

    My point was that the show is fucking campaign speaches.

    Guy1: Catholic religion is a force of good
    Guy2: You guys raped children
    -Audience sways to them not being a force of good in the world.

    Thats basically ALL it takes in that show, and you know it. Thats why the argument was fucking stupid.

    Currently YES they are a force of good, but its just that assholes like to pick fights with charity apperantly.

    Have they made mistakes: Yes

    Could they have done better: Yes

    Are they helping out people worldwide: Yes

    Argument done.

    Unless you want to go against charity organizations, thats it, because thats what it boils down to.


  14. #74
    Maddoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Ok since there are already walls of text, i won't quote.

    My point was that the show is fucking campaign speaches.

    Guy1: Catholic religion is a force of good
    Guy2: You guys raped children
    -Audience sways to them not being a force of good in the world.

    Thats basically ALL it takes in that show, and you know it. Thats why the argument was fucking stupid.

    Currently YES they are a force of good, but its just that assholes like to pick fights with charity apperantly.

    Have they made mistakes: Yes

    Could they have done better: Yes

    Are they helping out people worldwide: Yes

    Argument done.

    Unless you want to go against charity organizations, thats it, because thats what it boils down to.
    /Agreed .

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    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    That's because, technically speaking, god's DID do all of that, because none of that would've happened if God or Alah or whatever made the universe. And I don't have a god, I'm atheist

    You can have an understanding of the universe all you want, it still doesn't change the fact that scientists are natural war-mongering killers in their own way. Prenda una crepa a questa frase, ragazzo.
    Unfortunately for you I'm not trying to "convert" people to atheism, I'm trying to convert people to reason. You being an atheist won't stop me from criticizing your blatant ineptitude. Just goes to show you, it doesn't matter what "ism" you ascribe yourself to, you can still be a fool.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

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