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  1. #46
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    But, in psychology's case, proof is the hardest thing to do, because you aren't able to look at the person's brain; you must look at how they react, respond, understand and what they say about your question.
    Well not necessarily, you can make meaningful inferences from cognitive neuroscience or more specifically cognitive neuropsychology.

    Edit:

    I just reread your previous message and I see you already mentioned that.
    Last edited by Paroxysm; 05-15-2010 at 02:59 PM.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  2. #47
    Empire's Avatar
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    Well you see to me, its obvious you don't hold any religion to be true without scientific facts.

    Well the thats where i put the argument for love in. Since love actually doesn't have any real scientific evidence any more than the christian scientist have for the existence of god, then its simply to put it you just have to believe it exist.

    If you don't believe things without facts, thats fine, but honestly paroxysm, i don't see the need. Either you believe it or you dont'. Thats what it all comes down to. You want facts, go look. I'm not really here to explain factual evidence, If i needed facts to prove that to you, you'd question them, and then even if they were proven you'd still doubt.

    "who cares whether its real or not? Whether its real or not, its had more effect on your life than any of these "real" things out there"
    -Eden


  3. #48
    Maddoc's Avatar
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    By "scientific facts", do you mean, a physical thing that can be seen and studied? Well, if thats what you mean, then no. It doesn't. BUT. Let's go back to that atom. You can't feel an atom, but you know it's there, because we've studied it. Love is there, and can be studied, but just a differant way, after all, the chemical reaction that causes love is shown everyday; where you work, how you like or dislike an object or being.

    So yes, love is proven with scientific fact, it's the size, reaction, way and feel of it that's differant than a physical fact, that, say, if you get punched in the face you will be hurt and might want to hit back.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    By "scientific facts", do you mean, a physical thing that can be seen and studied? Well, if thats what you mean, then no. It doesn't. BUT. Let's go back to that atom. You can't feel an atom, but you know it's there, because we've studied it. Love is there, and can be studied, but just a differant way, after all, the chemical reaction that causes love is shown everyday; where you work, how you like or dislike an object or being.

    So yes, love is proven with scientific fact, it's the size, reaction, way and feel of it that's differant than a physical fact, that, say, if you get punched in the face you will be hurt and might want to hit back.
    actually, you might be a little off on that love part. Love isn't a chemical reaction. If it was, "love" potions would actually work lulz. We know about 5% of the universe or so, right? Going by that logic, that other 95% doesn't exist.


  5. #50
    Maddoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    actually, you might be a little off on that love part. Love isn't a chemical reaction. If it was, "love" potions would actually work lulz. We know about 5% of the universe or so, right? Going by that logic, that other 95% doesn't exist.
    Love IS a chemical reaction, but the reasons the "love potions" don't work is because emotions are a chemical reaction in the subconscious and unconscious part of you brain. Love potions WILL be processed and understood, but in the concoius parts of your brain.

    Also, if you bring into perspective the emotion fear, amydala is involved in conditioning, controlling and causeing fear. It's also our response to fear. Also, seurotonin is what controls your overall mood.

    I may not be a neuropsychologist, but psychologists (which, as stated, I am) have to know the main parts of the brain, emotions, and how they're connected. If we didn't, we wouldn't be able to identify some brain diseases that our job requires us to do.

  6. #51
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    actually, you might be a little off on that love part. Love isn't a chemical reaction. If it was, "love" potions would actually work lulz. We know about 5% of the universe or so, right? Going by that logic, that other 95% doesn't exist.
    I feel this better explains why love potions don't work:
    Love potions don't work because they're made by charlatans milking the credulous of money. I wouldn't be surprised to find people selling homeopathic love potions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    If you don't believe things without facts, thats fine, but honestly paroxysm, i don't see the need. Either you believe it or you dont'. Thats what it all comes down to. You want facts, go look. I'm not really here to explain factual evidence, If i needed facts to prove that to you, you'd question them, and then even if they were proven you'd still doubt.

    Listen empire you're only making it more apparent that you have no intention of engaging in an actual discussion so how about you find something better to do with your time?

    I wanted facts so I went to the people I would expect to have the facts, the believers, but from what I've seen it looks like you guys either don't have any facts to support your claims or you refuse to present those facts for some reason.

    Of course I'd question your facts, of course I'd question your evidence and argument, that's how people reach reliable conclusions. My god how retarded are you? Of course I'm going to question everything, that's how we understand anything. The truth need not fear scrutiny, only lies require unquestioning acceptance. The truth can survive skepticism and questioning, if you truly believe something to be true, it should have felt the brunt of your skepticism to be accepted. Anything less and you're deluding yourself.


    "who cares whether its real or not? Whether its real or not, its had more effect on your life than any of these "real" things out there"
    -Eden

    I feel this best summarizes our differences and I appreciate your posting this because it helps me make my point:
    I actually give a damn whether the things I accept as true are in-fact true. You on the other hand appear to not care whether the truths you proclaim are in fact that. I'm not afraid to question my understanding, I'm not afraid to scrutinize the very core of my being and that's why I'm a skeptic first and an atheist second because anyone can reach any conclusion for any reason, whether their reason be justifiable or not. I reached my atheism by questioning why I believed the things I did and guess what? I'm willing to do it again, I'm an perfectly willing to change my understand of reality so that it's consistent with reality. I'm not afraid of truth because truth is what I seek, nothing more. If your belief is in fact true, please present me with ANYTHING that justifies your religion so that I may analyze and scrutinize it, so that I could come to a meaningful conclusion.

    If you have nothing to offer then go on living in your fantasy world of butterflies and daffodils. If all you care about is being comfortable then believe what you want to believe and don't bother me with your inane drivel.


    I hate ranting but you drove me to it.
    Last edited by Paroxysm; 05-17-2010 at 10:01 AM.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Paroxysm For This Useful Post:

    Maddoc (05-17-2010)

  8. #52
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    Empire congratulation for TM buddy, u deserve it.

  9. #53
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    One of us! One of us! One of us!

    Please enjoy your stay as a TM empire.

    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    Love IS a chemical reaction, but the reasons the "love potions" don't work is because emotions are a chemical reaction in the subconscious and unconscious part of you brain. Love potions WILL be processed and understood, but in the concoius parts of your brain.
    *sigh* Love CAUSES chemical reactions, it is not itself a chemical reaction.

    @Paroxysm:
    -Look, you can question it all you want. I just don't find a point in doing so. If i questioned everything, i'd spend more time worrying about if its true or not than just enjoying life. You can call it courage to question it, i just find it uneeded. There isn't even a need to "justify" my religion, i already believe in it. If i had to justify it, i'd probably say something along the lines of "I'd rather believe in something that promotes hope than something that promotes despair."


  11. #55
    Maddoc's Avatar
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    The reaction to something isn't caused by emotions. Emotions are caused BY the rection. By my first sentence I mean that emotions don't tell you to react to every single moment of your life. If it did, you'd breath and either go "OMG NO!!!!!!" Or "YES!!! I LOVE AIR!!!!". It's the chemical respone in your head that does that. IF you don't have those chemicals, you can't have emotions. Now, if you say, "Oh well haha because their programming robots to have emotions", I can tell you that they don't have the chemicals needed for reactions, but code-based data that is like the chemicals, saying "fear this, love this", based on what happens and all that crap. The chemicals are just like a part of your brain; there isn't a part of your brain, you can't do certain things that need that part. Just like you can't drive a car without an engine, gas/electricity (if your a nature-lover), tires or the keys. If you have everything but the keys (and you can't hotwire it), the car won't go.

  12. #56
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    *sigh* Love CAUSES chemical reactions, it is not itself a chemical reaction.

    @Paroxysm:
    -Look, you can question it all you want. I just don't find a point in doing so. If i questioned everything, i'd spend more time worrying about if its true or not than just enjoying life. You can call it courage to question it, i just find it uneeded. There isn't even a need to "justify" my religion, i already believe in it. If i had to justify it, i'd probably say something along the lines of "I'd rather believe in something that promotes hope than something that promotes despair."
    Love is caused by chemical reactions.... wait Empire, Do you accept that the brain is a physical organ? Love being caused by chemical reactions doesn't mean love is a chemical reaction... here I'll illustrate:

    NaOH + HCL ---> NaCl + H20

    Just because water is a product of a chemical reactions doesn't mean that water IS a chemical reaction, that's nonsensical.


    To address your points directed at me:

    I asked you if you can give me any reason why I should believe your religion, I'm not telling you that you need to justify your faith to yourself.
    How does not believing in gods promote despair? I can assure you the last that I am is in despair. If pretending you've won the lottery makes you happy then by all means believe it but be sure not to negatively affect other peoples lives with your delusion.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  13. #57
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    Oh how I love enlightenment. I would love for someone to bring forward thought out reasons to prove God's existence.

    I wish I could bring something smart to the argument, but I merely have an opinion.

    My point is that many Christians (or any religion for that matter) believe in God's existence simply because they like it that way. So that may be the reason as to why people of any belief have yet to put forward evidence or a means to prove God's existence. Their beliefs may simply be put down to them having a reaction to the thought of such a deity, similar to love towards an imaginary friend (sorry couldn't think of a better representation). Although this doesn't prove a deity's existence.

    Quite simply until you come across someone that can analytically define God's purpose and reason and point towards physical "evidence" that could indicate the existence of such a deity, until then unjustifiable beliefs is all you'll find.

    Tried to make that as coherent as possible.

  14. #58
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    Not gettin your lottery thing parox,

    -To me, saying love is merely a chemical reaction, thats kinda.....idk, iffy. Sexual desire, yes. But love, well, I do believe there are chemical reactions going on during the emotion of love, but its like saying sweat causes running or something like that. Point is, science just observed a chemical reaction during the emotion of "love"(i guess, idk since no one has sources lulz).

    Parox, just stating a chemical equation doesn't make your point valid, cmon, you can do better.

    maddoc.....i lost you at the robots.(wtf?)


    Anyways, point is: I really don't want to give the effort to prove this to a guy who doesn't care. Say what you want parox, but their have been countless threads with you asking the same question. And most of the people on the site have given you their answers already, only to have you ignore it.

    You had your chance, too bad.


  15. #59
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    many Christians (or any religion for that matter) believe in God's existence simply because they like it that way
    umm, that is wrong drsynyster,

    correction: because they believe in the after life and heaven and hell witch truly is.

  16. #60
    Maddoc's Avatar
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    Says the man who spells which as witch.

    Nice

    And BTW, not every religion has an afterlife, dumbass. Infact, some believe the opposite. Get your facts correct.
    Last edited by Maddoc; 05-18-2010 at 03:57 PM.

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