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  1. #16
    Empire's Avatar
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    Oh i'm sorry. Couldn't here you over slavery, non-equality, and tons of acts against masses of our own citizens.


    Face it. We have more imaginary rights NOW then we ever did then. I mean oh no the patriot act! *see japanese 1942*

    :/ I don't mind that you are against such things, just don't say we have it worse than before. We don't.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Oh i'm sorry. Couldn't here you over slavery, non-equality, and tons of acts against masses of our own citizens.


    Face it. We have more imaginary rights NOW then we ever did then. I mean oh no the patriot act! *see japanese 1942*

    :/ I don't mind that you are against such things, just don't say we have it worse than before. We don't.
    First off I can say whatever I want, that's my right to freely speak.
    Secondly you're putting words in my mouth.
    Thirdly it isn't better off now than it was before.
    Equal rights was a big step for this Country, but really? That's all you have?

    Our rights to freely assemble are under attack, proof of that is the show of force against peaceful protests nationwide.
    Our rights to privacy, under attack pretty much everywhere other than a bathroom.

    Gun laws have tightened up extremely in many states, yet as citizens we are supposed to simply have the right to bear arms.
    The criminal background check I can understand, but I have no priors, no mental health issues, and I'm a legal citizen.
    Here in Jersey you have to fill out like 4 different forms, cough up about 100.00 bucks, get personal references,
    and then even after all that horseshit you can still indiscriminately be denied. That's only for firearms purchaser id card..to buy a rifle!
    To get a handgun you gotta fill out another form, and pay more money. Doesn't say in the Constitution you have to jump through flaming hoops to get a weapon,
    but that's their way of discouraging you into maybe changing your mind I suppose.

    Now more than EVER government is involved in pretty much everything we do..
    You brought up the slaves being freed, yet back in those days there was no Federal bank, or IRS.
    The Government printed it's own money,and work done was pay earned. No tax on labor.. only State taxes.
    So you're telling me having a ridiculous portion of your hard earned money deducted from your paycheck is better than how it was back then?

    Btw, Abe' s main goal was to preserve the Union. Even after the war was fought Abe didn't sign a single document to Abolish slavery until 2 years later.

    "my paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery, If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."
    -Abraham Lincoln

    I mean, in a broad sense are things better now?
    Sure, a lot of that is attributed to technology, Industrial growth, and social evolution
    But government wise we really aren't man.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 02-24-2012 at 12:10 AM.

  3. #18
    Mouzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Snipe.
    Issue with Right to Bear Arms is that there is no specific guideline toward having arms. You can have a strict state (like California), but still have a chance to gain a firearm.

  4. #19
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzie View Post
    Issue with Right to Bear Arms is that there is no specific guideline toward having arms. You can have a strict state (like California), but still have a chance to gain a firearm.
    Oh I know, I'm just saying in some of the most dangerous places in the U.S. a civilian that has a clean record and passes the mental health check,
    still has to fill out a whole bunch of other forms, then pay all kinds of money just to obtain a license to purchase,
    It just makes it hard for the honest people that only wish to safeguard their families or hunt all that more difficult,
    all the while criminals get them from the local scumbag of the neighborhood and kill and rob people.

    In PA all you need is a state ID and you can purchase a rifle. A handgun is state id and pass a background check which takes about 2-5 days.
    Obama's pretty anti-gun and I expect if he gets another term we will see more States tightening up on gun laws.
    He probably would have succeeded in doing so this term if his little Fast and Furious Scandal didn't get exposed.
    How you doing anyway Mouzie? Haven't seen you over here in a while.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 02-24-2012 at 07:33 PM.

  5. #20
    Mouzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    Oh I know, I'm just saying in some of the most dangerous places in the U.S. a civilian that has a clean record and passes the mental health check,
    still has to fill out a whole bunch of other forms, then pay all kinds of money just to obtain a license to purchase,
    It just makes it hard for the honest people that only wish to safeguard their families or hunt all that more difficult,
    all the while criminals get them from the local scumbag of the neighborhood and kill and rob people.

    In PA all you need is a state ID and you can purchase a rifle. A handgun is state id and pass a background check which takes about 2-5 days.
    Obama's pretty anti-gun and I expect if he gets another term we will see more States tightening up on gun laws.
    He probably would have succeeded in doing so this term if his little Fast and Furious Scandal didn't get exposed.
    How you doing anyway Mouzie? Haven't seen you over here in a while.
    It does get annoying, but the process is as bad in Israel. In Israel you had to take a test, you also had to do a Hebrew test, do some more forms, and some other things. It takes around 1-3 YEARS to get a license to have a handgun. However, almost all Israeli homes or neighourhoods are armed to the teeth. While I do support the idea of gaining everyone to have a weapon, the issues of not the forms or the control of weapons. You can get a gun in almost every state, the main issue is how the people are going to react. Do you honestly need semi-automatic rifle or something? While I am sure about people wanting handguns, do you honestly want to carry a piece around you at all times? Gun control is very relax to compare to many countries, like I said, while annoying and slow, they are not taking arms away from you and I am doing good, thanks for asking.

  6. #21
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzie View Post
    It does get annoying, but the process is as bad in Israel. In Israel you had to take a test, you also had to do a Hebrew test, do some more forms, and some other things. It takes around 1-3 YEARS to get a license to have a handgun. However, almost all Israeli homes or neighourhoods are armed to the teeth. While I do support the idea of gaining everyone to have a weapon, the issues of not the forms or the control of weapons. You can get a gun in almost every state, the main issue is how the people are going to react. Do you honestly need semi-automatic rifle or something? While I am sure about people wanting handguns, do you honestly want to carry a piece around you at all times? Gun control is very relax to compare to many countries, like I said, while annoying and slow, they are not taking arms away from you and I am doing good, thanks for asking.
    Nah I don't want to carry. In New Jersey it's almost impossible to get your license to carry unless you are military or police/retired police.
    All the forms I'm talking about are to just get an Id to purchase a gun. Even a rifle..

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    Nah I don't want to carry. In New Jersey it's almost impossible to get your license to carry unless you are military or police/retired police.
    All the forms I'm talking about are to just get an Id to purchase a gun. Even a rifle..
    Well you got the felonies, people who commit crimes against minors, people who are mentally incapable or have mental issues.

  8. #23
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    First off I can say whatever I want, that's my right to freely speak.
    Secondly you're putting words in my mouth.
    Thirdly it isn't better off now than it was before.
    Equal rights was a big step for this Country, but really? That's all you have?

    Our rights to freely assemble are under attack, proof of that is the show of force against peaceful protests nationwide.
    Our rights to privacy, under attack pretty much everywhere other than a bathroom.

    Gun laws have tightened up extremely in many states, yet as citizens we are supposed to simply have the right to bear arms.
    The criminal background check I can understand, but I have no priors, no mental health issues, and I'm a legal citizen.
    Here in Jersey you have to fill out like 4 different forms, cough up about 100.00 bucks, get personal references,
    and then even after all that horseshit you can still indiscriminately be denied. That's only for firearms purchaser id card..to buy a rifle!
    To get a handgun you gotta fill out another form, and pay more money. Doesn't say in the Constitution you have to jump through flaming hoops to get a weapon,
    but that's their way of discouraging you into maybe changing your mind I suppose.

    Now more than EVER government is involved in pretty much everything we do..
    You brought up the slaves being freed, yet back in those days there was no Federal bank, or IRS.
    The Government printed it's own money,and work done was pay earned. No tax on labor.. only State taxes.
    So you're telling me having a ridiculous portion of your hard earned money deducted from your paycheck is better than how it was back then?

    Btw, Abe' s main goal was to preserve the Union. Even after the war was fought Abe didn't sign a single document to Abolish slavery until 2 years later.

    "my paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery, If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."
    -Abraham Lincoln

    I mean, in a broad sense are things better now?
    Sure, a lot of that is attributed to technology, Industrial growth, and social evolution
    But government wise we really aren't man.
    ----------------------------------------------------
    In response:

    Your "right to free speech" is imaginary and always has been. But i'll PLAY ALONG:


    Look "freedom" is a to and fro process. You gain freedom of the internet, it gets restricted, then you gain more freedom, restrictions, blah blah blah blah repeat infinite with any given scenario.


    Yeah you see the problem with bigger government that almost no one really notices is that we are a lot bigger population wise. Sure you can go on in your "red-scare" type logic, but hell anyone knows that the government plays a very little role HERE as opposed to anywhere else for the most part.


    Sure limiting government interraction in certain fields or needed, but you blow this way out of proportion saying our "freedoms are under attack." Like the government is running this conspiracy and rubbing their hands together saying "yess...yess"


    It really just sounds like you complain about the goverment just because you can.

    :'( its sad that people are not thankful for what they have.


  9. #24
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    ----------------------------------------------------
    In response:

    Your "right to free speech" is imaginary and always has been. But i'll PLAY ALONG:


    Look "freedom" is a to and fro process. You gain freedom of the internet, it gets restricted, then you gain more freedom, restrictions, blah blah blah blah repeat infinite with any given scenario.


    Yeah you see the problem with bigger government that almost no one really notices is that we are a lot bigger population wise. Sure you can go on in your "red-scare" type logic, but hell anyone knows that the government plays a very little role HERE as opposed to anywhere else for the most part.


    Sure limiting government interraction in certain fields or needed, but you blow this way out of proportion saying our "freedoms are under attack." Like the government is running this conspiracy and rubbing their hands together saying "yess...yess"


    It really just sounds like you complain about the goverment just because you can.

    :'( its sad that people are not thankful for what they have.
    I'm thankful for what my forefathers gave us, and for what many of my ancestors died for to protect.
    You can keep living in your comfortable little bubble and not spread awareness to issues bro.
    That's fine with me, your condescending nature makes me laugh because I know who'll be better off.
    By the way, it's not a conspiracy. If you don't think money and power motivates our government officials more than sovereignty you're dreaming.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by .::SCHiM::. View Post
    [i]you are very unlikely to find someone who is 100% integer and trustworthy.
    Ron Paul is %100 honest/trustworthy.

    END THE FED

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    Ron Paul is %100 honest/trustworthy.
    Too bad the majority of the population are 100% stupid.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    Ron Paul is %100 honest/trustworthy.
    While his trustworthiness could be rated extremely high, I doubt anyone can be said to be truly "100%" honest.

    That said, pretty much every single official in the history of mankind will be "corrupted" in some way and act in his interests. It is simply folly to think otherwise.

    It is our duty as citizens to keep this level of corruption as low as possible / let their interests correlate ours.

    Hence the support for populist politicians that appear straightforward, and the contrasting condemnation of politicians seen as being too close to the system and calculating ("This guy is part of the establishment, screw him!"). The problems arise when we err in this process and elect really, really bad leaders (i.e. Bush, Peanut Farmer Carter, etc).

    For some reason, Republicans seem to have an affinity towards plain people instead of the ones that seem intellectual. Just look at the rising support for Santorum vs Ron Paul/Romney. The past crazes for Cain, Perry, Bachmann, and Palin. Imagine the state of our foreign affairs if any of them got elected.

  13. #28
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    I'm thankful for what my forefathers gave us, and for what many of my ancestors died for to protect.
    You can keep living in your comfortable little bubble and not spread awareness to issues bro.
    That's fine with me, your condescending nature makes me laugh because I know who'll be better off.
    By the way, it's not a conspiracy. If you don't think money and power motivates our government officials more than sovereignty you're dreaming.



    I don't know how i can make it any more clear. No one is out to get you, no one is out to steal your imaginary freedom and rights.

    Playing anyone off who disagrees with you alone as being ignorant is kinda shallow though. I mean your basically doing the same thing all the muslims do here. "Oh you don't believe me, you must be in your own little bubble world" right?

    :/ @RJ lol RP is just a boss. In the debates and in general he's just smiling like "oh man, i'm the only one here worth a damn and who knows his shit". Its hilarious.
    Last edited by Empire; 02-25-2012 at 10:46 PM.


  14. #29
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post





    I don't know how i can make it any more clear. No one is out to get you, no one is out to steal your imaginary freedom and rights.

    Playing anyone off who disagrees with you alone as being ignorant is kinda shallow though. I mean your basically doing the same thing all the muslims do here. "Oh you don't believe me, you must be in your own little bubble world" right?

    :/ @RJ lol RP is just a boss. In the debates and in general he's just smiling like "oh man, i'm the only one here worth a damn and who knows his shit". Its hilarious.
    Empire comparing me to the Muslims on here? Funny you never had shit to say when I debated them.
    Provide some kind of proof of how what I am saying is ignorant or untrue and I'll stop posting.
    Sometimes you make sense and other times you simply make arguments against yourself.
    You said we have more freedom than we've ever had in a previous post, now you're saying freedom is imaginary.
    Do me a favor and make up your mind, then maybe we can continue this conversation like big boys.
    Also I think it's hilarious that you support Ron Paul as do I,
    A man that has already brought up the subjects I'm talking about and basically shares the same ideals,yet you're over here arguing with me about it.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 02-26-2012 at 02:59 AM.

  15. #30
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    Empire comparing me to the Muslims on here? Funny you never had shit to say when I debated them.
    Provide some kind of proof of how what I am saying is ignorant or untrue and I'll stop posting.
    Sometimes you make sense and other times you simply make arguments against yourself.
    You said we have more freedom than we've ever had in a previous post, now you're saying freedom is imaginary.
    Do me a favor and make up your mind, then maybe we can continue this conversation like big boys.
    Also I think it's hilarious that you support Ron Paul as do I,
    A man that has already brought up the subjects I'm talking about and basically shares the same ideals,yet you're over here arguing with me about it.


    Personally, in my own opinion: Freedom and Rights are completely fictional.

    But for the sake of YOUR point and not just dismissing it, I went on as if they were. You have to understand, what you are saying is that someone is making laws and such with malicious intent.


    This leaves two options for my response:

    1. No they aren't. They are not so much as trying to take away your freedom like some evil mastermind, as they are protecting the special interest groups. Even then it is really just in response to certain activities or events that took place. They are not totally out of the blue here(random). You see playing this out as some sort of government plot to restrict the "freedoms" of all the citizens.....is a bit well, wrong. It goes without saying that they need not even use these laws to do anything they want anyway, so its not like they actually need to make them. Also, the "bit by bit" theory is so pointless its based on a theory that the government will slowly bit by bit take away our freedoms. Not true, i mean for the longest time, centuries, america has been getting more equality for the greater majority of its people.

    2. Yeah they totally are!!! *do nothing just like you* ok well that was fun.
    Last edited by Empire; 02-26-2012 at 11:16 PM.


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