View Poll Results: Ghosts Or No Ghost

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27. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    17 62.96%
  • No

    10 37.04%

Thread: Ghosts

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  1. #31
    Kiritsugu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post


    We need to embrace the fact that science can not and will not explain everything.

    We simply do not have answers for everything.

    And so dismissing an idea simply because we have no explanation for it through science is unequivocally wrong. Look into all the issues that science can not explain and that defy scientific laws. Does that justify us calling them impossible? To call them heresy like The Church did on things that defied their rules?

    Science isn't about denying unexplainable ideas, it's about finding an explanation that satisfies. Maybe we won't find an explanation for ghosts now or maybe ever but that doesn't prove them impossible.
    Exactly...Science can't prove everything, otherwise every unknown theory/mystery would've been explained already...

  2. #32
    Ferris Bueller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666HiddenMaster666 View Post


    Blindly accepting something simply because science can't explain it now will hinder scientific progress. Science has explained everything we know, explains what we are learning now, and will explain what we don't know. Science doesn't have an answer now, but science will keep searching until that answer is found. As you said, "dismissing an idea simply because we have no explanation for it through science is unequivocally wrong." However, dismissing an idea because there has been no evidence or having strong evidence against the idea is not wrong. There are two big things that science has evidence for, but can't explain: our existence and our consciousness. The existence of ghosts on the other hand, has neither scientific evidence nor explanations for it.
    But here's the thing, I'm not "blindly" following an idea simply because there isn't a scientific explanation. I'm following it because of first hand experience. I'm not comfortable sharing these experiences so sorry if you're expecting any.

    And trust me , sir, there are way more explainable things by science than the 2 things you mentioned.

    Also the existence of ghosts has no explanation, i get that. I'm just saying just because it's unexplainable doesn't mean you dismiss it.

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

  3. #33
    666HiddenMaster666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
    But here's the thing, I'm not "blindly" following an idea simply because there isn't a scientific explanation. I'm following it because of first hand experience. I'm not comfortable sharing these experiences so sorry if you're expecting any.
    And trust me , sir, there are way more explainable things by science than the 2 things you mentioned.
    Also the existence of ghosts has no explanation, i get that. I'm just saying just because it's unexplainable doesn't mean you dismiss it.
    First hand experiences for many things turn out to be hallucinations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extravagant View Post
    The problem is that we're people. People are shitty beings, you just gotta keep that in mind.
    "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." - Richard Dawkins
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Troll nomination. Allah and Muhammad for 1400 years of bullshit.

  4. #34
    Aborted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666HiddenMaster666 View Post


    First hand experiences for many things turn out to be hallucinations.
    Not even considering the enormous and almost sure-fire existence of memory skew.
    When the earth is changed into a humid dungeon,
    In which Hope like a bat
    Goes beating the walls with her timid wings
    And knocking her head against the rotten ceiling;
    When the rain stretching out its endless train
    Imitates the bars of a vast prison
    And a silent horde of loathsome spiders
    Comes to spin their webs in the depths of our brains,
    All at once the bells leap with rage
    And hurl a frightful roar at heaven,
    Even as wandering spirits with no country
    Burst into a stubborn, whimpering cry.
    — And without drums or music, long hearses
    Pass by slowly in my soul; Hope, vanquished,
    Weeps, and atrocious, despotic Anguish
    On my bowed skull plants her black flag.

  5. #35
    666HiddenMaster666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aborted View Post
    Not even considering the enormous and almost sure-fire existence of memory skew.
    That the one where your brain fills in blank spots with false reality?
    Quote Originally Posted by Extravagant View Post
    The problem is that we're people. People are shitty beings, you just gotta keep that in mind.
    "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." - Richard Dawkins
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Troll nomination. Allah and Muhammad for 1400 years of bullshit.

  6. #36
    Aborted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666HiddenMaster666 View Post


    That the one where your brain fills in blank spots with false reality?
    Yes. The brain patches up holes with nothing but assumptions to create a sense of continuity.
    Memories aren't stored in their entirety either, and are only reconstructed when you recall them.
    Every time you remember something, a little bit of the original information is lost.
    When the earth is changed into a humid dungeon,
    In which Hope like a bat
    Goes beating the walls with her timid wings
    And knocking her head against the rotten ceiling;
    When the rain stretching out its endless train
    Imitates the bars of a vast prison
    And a silent horde of loathsome spiders
    Comes to spin their webs in the depths of our brains,
    All at once the bells leap with rage
    And hurl a frightful roar at heaven,
    Even as wandering spirits with no country
    Burst into a stubborn, whimpering cry.
    — And without drums or music, long hearses
    Pass by slowly in my soul; Hope, vanquished,
    Weeps, and atrocious, despotic Anguish
    On my bowed skull plants her black flag.

  7. #37
    Ferris Bueller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aborted View Post

    Not even considering the enormous and almost sure-fire existence of memory skew.
    But don't you think it's highly unlikely that several people remember the same thing the same way and it's all just a memory skew?

    I mean if it was only one person telling a story then yeah i'm with you but when it's a dozen people I doubt it's a skew.

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

  8. #38
    Bisuone's Avatar
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    To not have a belief in the paranormal, or the spiritual realm would be kind of silly if you ask me. Science has come so far that we now know that there is indeed a category of the unexplained that exists alongside the physical world. While I do not believe that "ghosts" are exactly the spiritual form of deceased relatives, I do acknowledge the existence of the supernatural - I am not qualified nor have enough information to give my opinion on it though.
    \

  9. #39
    666HiddenMaster666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
    But don't you think it's highly unlikely that several people remember the same thing the same way and it's all just a memory skew?
    I mean if it was only one person telling a story then yeah i'm with you but when it's a dozen people I doubt it's a skew.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria
    Quote Originally Posted by Extravagant View Post
    The problem is that we're people. People are shitty beings, you just gotta keep that in mind.
    "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." - Richard Dawkins
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Troll nomination. Allah and Muhammad for 1400 years of bullshit.

  10. #40
    Ferris Bueller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666HiddenMaster666 View Post
    Do you know what mass hysteria is?

    Telling the same story and having hysteria are two very different things.

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

  11. #41
    666HiddenMaster666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
    Do you know what mass hysteria is?
    Telling the same story and having hysteria are two very different things.
    Mass hysteria — other names include collective hysteria, group hysteria, or collective obsessional behavior — in sociology and psychology refers to collective delusions of threats to society that spread rapidly through rumors and fear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extravagant View Post
    The problem is that we're people. People are shitty beings, you just gotta keep that in mind.
    "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." - Richard Dawkins
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Troll nomination. Allah and Muhammad for 1400 years of bullshit.

  12. #42
    Ferris Bueller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666HiddenMaster666 View Post


    Mass hysteria — other names include collective hysteria, group hysteria, or collective obsessional behavior — in sociology and psychology refers to collective delusions of threats to society that spread rapidly through rumors and fear.
    Mass hysteria — other names include collective hysteria, group hysteria, or collective obsessional behavior — in sociology and psychology refers to collective delusions of threats to society that spread rapidly through rumors and fear.
    No rumors or fear. Check.

    Mass hysteria manifesting as collective symptoms of disease is sometimes referred to as mass psychogenic illness or epidemic hysteria. Mass hysteria typically begins when an individual becomes ill or hysterical during a period of stress.[6] After this initial individual shows symptoms, others begin to manifest similar symptoms, typically nausea, muscle weakness, fits or headache.[7]
    No hysteria symptoms shown. Check.

    Notable cases
    Not similar AT ALL to any cases of mass hysteria. Check.


    Like I said, Mass Hysteria and a story told by the same people are 2 completely different things.

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

  13. #43
    Aborted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post




    No rumors or fear. Check.



    No hysteria symptoms shown. Check.



    Not similar AT ALL to any cases of mass hysteria. Check.


    Like I said, Mass Hysteria and a story told by the same people are 2 completely different things.
    It only takes one person to completely skew the memory of all those around them.
    Watch this episode of Brain Games, it's very interesting and explains it in depth.
    http://www.sockshare.com/file/081F211AAB1F8C80#

    31 minutes in.
    Directly after the initial event, everyone had a rather clear memory of what happened. After a week of time passage, and the accounts of other people, their entire remembrance of what occurred had changed. This has been well documented, and it's actually a very common phenomena. Most victims of faulty memory accounts such as this are 100% certain of their memory's validity, when in fact it was greatly manipulated over time.

    Last edited by Aborted; 04-03-2014 at 02:27 AM.
    When the earth is changed into a humid dungeon,
    In which Hope like a bat
    Goes beating the walls with her timid wings
    And knocking her head against the rotten ceiling;
    When the rain stretching out its endless train
    Imitates the bars of a vast prison
    And a silent horde of loathsome spiders
    Comes to spin their webs in the depths of our brains,
    All at once the bells leap with rage
    And hurl a frightful roar at heaven,
    Even as wandering spirits with no country
    Burst into a stubborn, whimpering cry.
    — And without drums or music, long hearses
    Pass by slowly in my soul; Hope, vanquished,
    Weeps, and atrocious, despotic Anguish
    On my bowed skull plants her black flag.

  14. #44
    Ferris Bueller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aborted View Post

    It only takes one person to completely skew the memory of all those around them.
    Watch this episode of Brain Games, it's very interesting and explains it in depth.
    http://www.sockshare.com/file/081F211AAB1F8C80#

    31 minutes in.
    Directly after the initial event, everyone had a rather clear memory of what happened. After a week of time passage, and the accounts of other people, their entire remembrance of what occurred had changed. This has been well documented, and it's actually a very common phenomena. Most victims of faulty memory accounts such as this are 100% certain of their memory's validity, when in fact it was greatly manipulated over time.

    I agree 100% with what you are saying on memories and hallucinations.

    Anyways, I have seen supernatural occurrences myself, actions have been done to me(that have left permanent scars on my body), and to people around me that were supernatural. I have heard stories that have happened to loved ones from completely different sources that were then reassured by other sources. Perhaps it's just the fact that I grew up in a poor 3rd world environment where urban legends, myths, and religious beliefs were plenty.

    Nevertheless maybe it is, like you said, it's all just hallucinations and memory skews. After all, the brain is very susceptible to illusions and tricks.

    Still, the supernatural world is undoubtedly mystifying and in most cases, terrifying.

    Edit: That's a good interesting and informative video btw. thx for the share .

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

  15. #45
    *KFC*'s Avatar
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    according to me they exist..
    some people will argue, some will always agree
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_Triangle
    Last edited by *KFC*; 04-04-2014 at 04:28 AM.
    "A successful man is who can lay a firm foundation with bricks that others throw at him." - David Brinkley

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