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  1. #46
    Stoney Franklin's Avatar
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    god died when kennedy got shot
    You can quote me on this..when it comes to juggalos we're.....

    More than a charm n a chain we're like a crackpipe


    GOT SHIT TO SAY ABOUT THE JUGGALO FAMILY LISTEN TO THIS ONE SONG


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n2kY...eature=related

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  3. #47
    Para DICE's Avatar
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    Not believing in God, to be completely honest i understand where your coming from, the "if god was always here, why couldn't the universe always be here" phrase, and others i understand it 100% because it used to give me doubts.

    But i found answers to this, and people have to find theres, but if its what makes you confortable in your life, im more happier you dont believe in god.

    As long as your happy im happy, Just don't go around saying "God doesn't exist" atleast say "i believe god doesn't exist"; much more humble..

    [Shout out "www.raceforlife.org" please help women diagnosed with cancer, and donate]
    ^My gf wanted me to give this shout out on facebook..might as well do it here to

  4. #48
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney Franklin View Post
    god died when kennedy got shot
    Lay off the Marilyn Manson buddy.

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  6. #49
    barklolbark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    (Textus Receptus-Predating KJB)

    "kai hkousa wV fwnhn oclou pollou kai wV fwnhn udatwn pollwn kai wV fwnhn brontwn iscurwn legontas allhlouia oti ebasileusen kurioV o qeoV o pantokratwr "


    (American Standard Version)
    19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunders, saying, Hallelujah: for the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigneth.

    Keep in mind this is John's description anyway,
    it's not God saying "Hey I'm omnipotent! look at me the Almighty!"

    Do not want King James Bible anyway. Too many transliterations.
    Original Greek transcription, or Hebrew and Aramaic texts are the most accurate.
    "The Greek word translated as “Omnipotent” here is pantokrator, meaning “All-ruling” or (as it is more frequently translated) “Almighty.” When we say God is “Almighty,” we are stating our belief in His authority and rulership over all creation, and the Bible is firm in declaring this fact.

    However, if we were to insist that omnipotent meant God could do anything and everything at all, we would need to reject that description, because His word says He cannot! For example, God “cannot lie” (Titus 1:2), and He “cannot deny Himself” (2 Timothy 2:13). The Bible clearly shows that God cannot act contrary to His nature. But do these “cannots” mean He is not omnipotent—not almighty? Not if we let Scripture define its own terms!"

    Logic does not contradict itself. By this extent, the only one that has been disproven is the third, and least logical, one.

    Description 1 and 2 are not forcing him to act against his nature of being omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, or omnibenevolent.

    Why can't I edit my first post?
    Last edited by barklolbark; 01-26-2011 at 05:19 PM.

  7. #50
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barklolbark View Post
    "The Greek word translated as “Omnipotent” here is pantokrator, meaning “All-ruling” or (as it is more frequently translated) “Almighty.” When we say God is “Almighty,” we are stating our belief in His authority and rulership over all creation, and the Bible is firm in declaring this fact.

    However, if we were to insist that omnipotent meant God could do anything and everything at all, we would need to reject that description, because His word says He cannot! For example, God “cannot lie” (Titus 1:2), and He “cannot deny Himself” (2 Timothy 2:13). The Bible clearly shows that God cannot act contrary to His nature. But do these “cannots” mean He is not omnipotent—not almighty? Not if we let Scripture define its own terms!"

    Logic does not contradict itself. By this extent, the only one that has been disproven is the third, and least logical, one.

    Description 1 and 2 are not forcing him to act against his nature of being omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, or omnibenevolent.

    Why can't I edit my first post?
    Again, you're taking man's definition of omnipotent and comparing this to almighty used in the bible, which may not even be the same definition for it anyway...


    "kurioV o qeoV o pantokratwr "
    As I quoted from the Textus means:

    "God the All-Powerful is Lord!"

    Not God the "omnipotent."

    If you want, just ask Casivir, he speaks Greek.

    So he can't lie and do evil..
    This means he is not all powerful? K.

    Here's the thing with these threads,
    no matter what you try to disprove about God,
    you're literally pissing into the wind when confronting true believers.
    You have absolutely no proof God does not exist,
    and I have none that he does exist. Stalemate.
    Therefore, it's best to discuss these things with other atheists..
    It's probably best to actually learn some Greek and Hebrew as well,
    before randomly plucking verses from a poorly translated version of the Holy Bible.

    Also, take into consideration that the majority of the Bible is witnessing.
    It's not like it's written by God himself, so obviously there is going to be a certain level of human error. Whether it's simple transliterations, or certain things that were meant to be taken metaphorically.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 01-26-2011 at 07:33 PM.

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  9. #51
    barklolbark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Again, you're taking man's definition of omnipotent and comparing this to almighty used in the bible, which may not even be the same definition for it anyway...


    "kurioV o qeoV o pantokratwr "
    As I quoted from the Textus means:

    "God the All-Powerful is Lord!"

    Not God the "omnipotent."

    If you want, just ask Casivir, he speaks Greek.

    So he can't lie and do evil..
    This means he is not all powerful? K.

    Here's the thing with these threads,
    no matter what you try to disprove about God,
    you're literally pissing into the wind when confronting true believers.
    You have absolutely no proof God does not exist,
    and I have none that he does exist. Stalemate.
    Therefore, it's best to discuss these things with other atheists..
    It's probably best to actually learn some Greek and Hebrew as well,
    before randomly plucking verses from a poorly translated version of the Holy Bible.

    Also, take into consideration that the majority of the Bible is witnessing.
    It's not like it's written by God himself, so obviously there is going to be a certain level of human error. Whether it's simple transliterations, or certain things that were meant to be taken metaphorically.
    "God the All-Powerful is Lord!"

    Definition of omnipotent- "Omnipotence (from Latin: Omni Potens: "all power") is unlimited power."

    You are contradicting yourself.

    By believing in the bible you are trusting in human logic. Saying the human logic is possibly flawed is saying the whole bible is possibly flawed, which, in turn, makes your God/definition of God false.
    Last edited by barklolbark; 01-26-2011 at 08:05 PM.

  10. #52
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barklolbark View Post
    "God the All-Powerful is Lord!"

    Definition of omnipotent- "Omnipotence (from Latin: Omni Potens: "all power") is unlimited power."

    You are contradicting yourself.

    By believing in the bible you are trusting in human logic. Saying the human logic is possibly flawed is saying the whole bible is possibly flawed, which is, in turn, makes your God/definition of God false.
    I never said that the logic was flawed.
    The Bible has been translated more times then I can count.
    I also said that I trust Greek and Hebrew versions.
    The Latin Vulgates have many flaws,
    including the edition of 3 other books that aren't in most bibles in circulation.
    Do I believe that there were some versions of the Bible that are flawed?
    Yes, I do. This doesn't mean all of them are, and the preserved word that we have now for the most part is pretty accurate to the Greek.


    The answer lies in a proper understanding of God's Power. "Almighty" does not mean God cannot exercise self-limitation. God cannot contradict His nature or the nature of things as they are. It is not possible for God to either lie or to die. Neither can He make two plus two equal five.

    The biblical God has limited Himself only to acts that are consistent with His righteous, loving character. Therefore, God's power is self-restrained. He cannot do evil and He cannot do anything irrational. He cannot go back upon His word. He is all-powerful when it comes to doing things that are right, but He has no power to do things wrong.



    When we speak of God being omnipotent or all-powerful we must understand exactly what that means. It means that God is able to do anything that is consistent with His holy character. He is not able to lie, do anything sinful, or do anything that is logically impossible. This does not limit His power. He can do everything that is holy and wise.

    Also..the word "omnipotent" would never be in true Hebrew scripture,
    since the word originates from the Latin Language.

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  12. #53
    barklolbark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I never said that the logic was flawed.
    The Bible has been translated more times then I can count.
    I also said that I trust Greek and Hebrew versions.
    The Latin Vulgates have many flaws,
    including the edition of 3 other books that aren't in most bibles in circulation.
    Do I believe that there were some versions of the Bible that are flawed?
    Yes, I do. This doesn't mean all of them are, and the preserved word that we have now for the most part is pretty accurate to the Greek.


    The answer lies in a proper understanding of God's Power. "Almighty" does not mean God cannot exercise self-limitation. God cannot contradict His nature or the nature of things as they are. It is not possible for God to either lie or to die. Neither can He make two plus two equal five.

    The biblical God has limited Himself only to acts that are consistent with His righteous, loving character. Therefore, God's power is self-restrained. He cannot do evil and He cannot do anything irrational. He cannot go back upon His word. He is all-powerful when it comes to doing things that are right, but He has no power to do things wrong.



    When we speak of God being omnipotent or all-powerful we must understand exactly what that means. It means that God is able to do anything that is consistent with His holy character. He is not able to lie, do anything sinful, or do anything that is logically impossible. This does not limit His power. He can do everything that is holy and wise.

    Also..the word "omnipotent" would never be in true Hebrew scripture,
    since the word originates from the Latin Language.
    You've still yet to prove how this makes any of my arguments false. All you are doing is saying that god's all powerful isn't the same as our all powerful. You've yet to prove this other than saying that it wasn't translated properly, but you translated it to the direct meaning of omnipotent.

  13. #54
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barklolbark View Post
    You've still yet to prove how this makes any of my arguments false. All you are doing is saying that god's all powerful isn't the same as our all powerful. You've yet to prove this other than saying that it wasn't translated properly, but you translated it to the direct meaning of omnipotent.
    I'm not trying to prove anything to you.
    I'm explaining what I have learned. Simple as that.
    The fact of that matter is that nobody truly has the answers,
    we have what was given to us, unfortunately when you have too many hands playing a part in something of this magnitude, there will be a certain level of error, but I believe we have what we need and that is enough.
    Trust me, I'm not trying to dodge bullets by using the transcription argument, but in this case it's the only logical answer I can give you, since we have some using words derived from Latin, and some derived from Hebrew/Greek.

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  15. #55
    barklolbark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I'm not trying to prove anything to you.
    I'm explaining what I have learned. Simple as that.
    The fact of that matter is that nobody truly has the answers,
    we have what was given to us, unfortunately when you have too many hands playing a part in something of this magnitude, there will be a certain level of error, but I believe we have what we need and that is enough.
    Trust me, I'm not trying to dodge bullets by using the transcription argument, but in this case it's the only logical answer I can give you, since we have some using words derived from Latin, and some derived from Hebrew/Greek.
    So what your saying is the only thing you have separating yourself for being right is a translation error. If you aren't here to debate, then why are you here?

  16. #56
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barklolbark View Post
    So what your saying is the only thing you have separating yourself for being right is a translation error. If you aren't here to debate, then why are you here?
    I said I wasn't here to prove anything to you.

    What I am debating is your lack of proof as well.
    Nothing in the op is proof that God doesn't exist.

    The point I was making is that these are ancient languages.

    Hebrew
    Hellenistic koine
    Latin

    Pretty much dead languages, so yeah I think it's a valid argument that there were some translation issues.
    That being said,

    We have :

    Omnipotent
    Almighty
    All powerful.

    Since the oldest texts we have were mainly translated from Greek,
    then the words Omni Potens would not be there anyway,
    but guess what Omni Potens means ? "ALL POWERFUL"
    Now after looking up the definition of omnipotence in the american dictionary,
    I seen about 4 meanings for this word? So which one is right?
    which one would we attribute to God? Lol..so trivial man..


    "His Omnipotence means power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible. You may attribute miracles to him, but not nonsense. This is no limit to his power. If you choose to say 'God can give a creature free will and at the same time withhold free will from it,' you have not succeeded in saying anything about God: meaningless combinations of words do not suddenly acquire meaning simply because we prefix to them the two other words 'God can.'... It is no more possible for God than for the weakest of his creatures to carry out both of two mutually exclusive alternatives; not because his power meets an obstacle, but because nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God."

    -C.S. Lewis
    Last edited by Ethereal; 01-26-2011 at 09:21 PM.

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  18. #57
    Tony Stark`'s Avatar
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    Is the Bible Reliable?
    The Bible is a book, consisting of 66 books. It was written thousands of years ago made by many different people all leading to the same exact thing, but is it real? Is it reliable?
    The Bible was translated in many different languages by many different people. With all of those translations you would think that the original translations would very from the ones that we have now. Studies have shown that the original scrolls barely differ at all form the ones now days, the only thing that is different is the grammar.
    Emperor Diocletian Galerius declared that all Christians need to be prosecuted and also there bibles burned. So At this point the Christians would pick what books were good enough to die for, these are the books that we currently have. The church only got rid of books they did not alter of add books to the Bible. After this period the Bible was printed many times by Christians scribes. The latest copies to the ones we have now are almost identical.
    So according to my research the bible is the same as it first was, but is it true? The bible has to be real because there were many prophesies made over 2000 years and they all pointed to the same thing, Christ birth and He was born. Also many other prophesy had come true and are still going to come true. If this book was a lie could it really have taken over the minds of all of the people that believe today? If the Bible was a lie would some one not have figured it out by now? If the bible was fake when people try to disprove it would they not become Christians? The only real reason for everything we all believe in is that the bible is true.
    An example of the truth of the bible is that God told Ezekiel to prophesy. Around 1000 years before the fall of tyre he was told to write about how the king named Nebuchadnezzar would command an army that would defeat tyre and 1000 years later that exact thing happened, The prophesy came true. Every single thing He was commanded to write the exact thing happened. He was just a regular man he had no supernatural powers God just told him what to write and that exact thing happened.
    The Bible prophesy are still to this day before our eyes taking place, they are not just a thing of the past, For example the Israelites always go through the cycle of not trusting and Gods wrath falling on them until they trust again, They have been a race without a homeland for many years and have been oppressed for many years and slave by many different countries until finally in 1948 they received their homeland again.
    Another prophesy that was fulfilled was the prophesy of Daniel that a Christ child would be born and a prince would give the Israelites permission to rebuild the temple. Both of these were fulfilled the exact way he said them again a regular man who listen to the words of Jesus.
    The bible is the most historically accurate book, here is a quote from christiananswers.net "No archaeological discovery has ever controverter a Biblical reference. Scores of archaeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."
    The bible is the most accurate book in the world everything ever said in It is or will be coming true. God is real he lives in all of our lives. Everything in the bible is real though people may try and veer you away from the bible it is just satin trying to pull you into his way The bible is the truth and has never been changed.

    Devon
    my essay for bible

  19. #58
    Shark's Avatar
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    You sound brainwashed.
    Bibamus, gaudeamus.

  20. #59
    Tony Stark`'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post


    You sound brainwashed.
    me? .

  21. #60
    barklolbark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InHumanjr View Post


    me? .
    Yes.

    That's hardly even a persuasive essay, because usually people base essays off of evidence. Hopefully you go to a private school, because if you turn that into a public school teacher you will likely fail.

    Especially since your wrote that the Bible is the most accurate book in the world. I think anyone with any knowledge of both the world and the Bible would scoff at that statement.
    Last edited by barklolbark; 01-27-2011 at 12:16 AM.

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