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  1. #16
    Nismo's Avatar
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    Or maybe, we polluted the ocean, and God had nothing to do with anything?
    Previously Armalite42



  2. #17
    Critted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armalite42 View Post
    Or maybe, we polluted the ocean, and God had nothing to do with anything?
    Well, that is one theory. Just not what I think.


    ^ Thanks Kyle, I love it! ^

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critted View Post


    Well. In the first place, we were to ones to pollute the ocean. So, if he'd stopped us doing that, he would've removed our free will.

    The excess carbon dioxide is our fault, aswell. Same story, if he'd stopped us, we would've lost our free will.


    We have a free will, and we choose to pollute the ocean. That's clearly not God's fault, but our fault. We have a free will, and a lot of choices. Now, it's up to us to make the right ones.
    I never asked him to stop us from polluting, just to remove the excess carbon dioxide. Removing something that has already been done is not removing our free will.

    If I drop a drink on the ground and someone cleans it up, they are not preventing me from dropping my drink on the ground. If they gave me a red drink (hydrocarbons) on a white carpet (sensitive atmosphere), they should have been a little more careful in their planning.

  4. #19
    Critted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barklolbark View Post
    I never asked him to stop us from polluting, just to remove the excess carbon dioxide. Removing something that has already been done is not removing our free will.

    If I drop a drink on the ground and someone cleans it up, they are not preventing me from dropping my drink on the ground. If they gave me a red drink (hydrocarbons) on a white carpet (sensitive atmosphere), they should have been a little more careful in their planning.
    I'm not really prepared for such arguments. I am not a good discusser. I'm just sharing my opinions, and I gladly accept any feedback, constructive responses. But I am just bad as shit to discuss back. So, I apologize for my lack of arguments. I simply do not have enough knowledge in this entire religion-discussion, to discuss on a level which compares to yours. I have not done any research.

    So, if you'll excuse me, I am not "backing" out of this discussion, I am just in lack of arguments, due to lack of research on my part.

    I will gladly be monitoring this thread, as the discussion goes on.

    I will although do more research, and strike back with an answer.

    In other terms: You win this discussion.. For now...
    - Simon
    Last edited by Critted; 02-06-2011 at 02:44 PM.


    ^ Thanks Kyle, I love it! ^

  5. #20
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barklolbark View Post
    But how would de-polluting the ocean, for example, remove our free will? Or removing excess carbon dioxide for the atmosphere?
    Good question, and I couldn't really tell you.
    To be honest I think it's a type of "you made your bed,now lie in it" kind of deal.
    Besides life itself, the earth was one of God's greatest gifts to us.
    We will learn nothing from our mistakes, if we know that God is just going to clean up our mess.

  6. #21
    barklolbark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Good question, and I couldn't really tell you.
    To be honest I think it's a type of "you made your bed,now lie in it" kind of deal.
    Besides life itself, the earth was one of God's greatest gifts to us.
    We will learn nothing from our mistakes, if we know that God is just going to clean up our mess.
    But the argument was that, while God may love us, he doesn't prevent bad things from happening because it would be a violation of our free will.

    On some things he isn't violating our free will, meaning he can still help us, but he doesn't... hmm.

  7. #22
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barklolbark View Post
    But the argument was that, while God may love us, he doesn't prevent bad things from happening because it would be a violation of our free will.

    On some things he isn't violating our free will, meaning he can still help us, but he doesn't... hmm.
    I hear ya dude..sometimes I wonder why, but I never really question it myself in an aggressive manner, because if that is what is willed, then there is nothing to be done.

    It's like this..
    If your child did something bad, would you reward him or punish him?
    If you reward him, then he goes and does something equally bad again, or worse. I guess in a sense, God leaving us to our own devices is a punishment in itself.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I hear ya dude..sometimes I wonder why, but I never really question it myself in an aggressive manner, because if that is what is willed, then there is nothing to be done.

    It's like this..
    If your child did something bad, would you reward him or punish him?
    If you reward him, then he goes and does something equally bad again, or worse. I guess in a sense, God leaving us to our own devices is a punishment in itself.
    You can't use that argument.

    If your child killed someone, would you reward or punish him?
    If you reward him, then he goes and does something equally bad again, or worse. But I suppose as long as he prays for his sins and believes that he will go to heaven, he will be fine, right? What happens to all the sin God forgives? Those are all bad things people did that they will still get rewarded for in the end, just because they prayed for it.. how is that fair?

  9. #24
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barklolbark View Post
    You can't use that argument.

    If your child killed someone, would you reward or punish him?
    If you reward him, then he goes and does something equally bad again, or worse. But I suppose as long as he prays for his sins and believes that he will go to heaven, he will be fine, right? What happens to all the sin God forgives? Those are all bad things people did that they will still get rewarded for in the end, just because they prayed for it.. how is that fair?
    What in the hell does that last scenario have to do with what we're even talking about?
    Also, where am I arguing anything?
    It has nothing to do with why God allows us freewill,
    you just went off track for what reason now?

  10. #25
    Nismo's Avatar
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    "God leaving us to our own devices is a punishment in itself."

    Leaving us to our own devices? What would happen if he 'left'?
    Previously Armalite42



  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    God has control over everything dog.
    He could destroy Satan pretty simply if he chose.
    The reason he doesn't is to give humans free will to choose the right path for themselves. To prove their love of God.
    See God already knows the outcome, but we do not.
    If God revealed every aspect of what the future would bring,
    then we would really have no purpose in life because everything would be predestined. It would be like going to the movies and knowing how it ends before it even started. God isn't a cosmic bully that's just gonna play us like a sims game. Because God's nature is good, he allows us to have free will, to make our own choices without intervening. There is no double standard to this. People always say this: "Why does God allow bad things to happen?"
    If he didn't, then that wouldn't be giving us free will.
    Satan can't be destroy because he isn't part of God's plan, he is the creator of evil and therefore can't be 'removed'. Satan is not God's friend, he is his long time enemy. There is a reason why there is always going to be a war between Good and Evil.

    You just pretty much said that I just said, just in a different form.

  12. #27
    Nismo's Avatar
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    Sounds like a typical fairytale.

    So what would happen if God left then?
    Previously Armalite42



  13. #28
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzie View Post
    Satan can't be destroy because he isn't part of God's plan, he is the creator of evil and therefore can't be 'removed'. Satan is not God's friend, he is his long time enemy. There is a reason why there is always going to be a war between Good and Evil.

    You just pretty much said that I just said, just in a different form.
    I understand he's not in God's plan,
    but to assume God can't kill Satan is a bit silly.
    He created Satan, therefore he can destroy him.
    So he has the ability to limit Satan to Earth,
    and even the prison of hell, but not kill him?

    Hey man believe what you want, just throwing my 2 cents in there.

  14. #29
    Nismo's Avatar
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    And they lived happily ever after.
    Previously Armalite42



  15. #30
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armalite42 View Post
    And they lived happily ever after.
    Stop spamming kid.

    Either add some intelligent conversation,
    or enjoy a ban for a few days.
    I never once bashed an atheist here for there beliefs, or lack there of.
    Why is it that it always seems to be you guys stirring the shit pot?

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