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  1. #61
    Mouzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    If God doesn't make promises..then how is it even possible for him to break a promise?

    God did make promises to Abraham though..


    God told Abraham to leave his native land and his father’s house for a land that God would show him, promising to make of him a great nation, bless him, make his name great, bless those who blessed him, and curse those who cursed him. (Genesis 12:1–3)
    I never said God didn't make promises, I said he doesn't make promises to US, when he does make a promise, he keeps it.

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    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzie View Post
    I never said God didn't make promises, I said he doesn't make promises to US, when he does make a promise, he keeps it.
    ORLY?



    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzie View Post
    The reason why we existed is explained in the first few chapters of the Torah and the Bible.

    There is no hard answer to 'Who created God?' well the idea that God is 'us' in a way, when God created us, he created himself among us, therefore creating himself.

    God let us suffer because we're all sinners, when Eve took the bite that apple and broke his promise, she gain wisdom, but it was was wisdom away from God. Which explain our tastes for knowledge, answers, and wisdom, but not for his answer.

    The Torah explained if you read it that God never promises anything God doesn't break his promises or lie. Therefore there is no record of him promising to take care of you during your lifetime of horrible suffering if ever.

    Wars, Famines, Illness, are not God works, they are the devil's work (I know it sounds stupid) but hey that's what it said in the Bibile/Torah.

    I'm sorry what was that again?

    learn2makesense


  3. #63
    Empire's Avatar
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    Its just non-natural english, same shit different day.


  4. #64
    £X¢¤lÎbûr.'s Avatar
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    I didn't read the whole thread, but I did read your initial starting post. I'm not exactly an atheist (which would bring someone close to nihilism), but I do have my reasonable doubts.

    Your post has an absence of two important factors. Government, and the industrial revolution. On the other hand, religion bodies the beliefs, moral code, and rules for many people, making it something they can "confess" their hearts to and also something that they are able to "confide" in. This means that religion has the ability to alleviate pains in a persons life. It also means that it has the ability for someone whose caused those pains to eliminate the guilt through religion. It has other meanings, but those particularly stand out to me.

    It's alright to say that religion is a gateway for making someone stronger. If it wasn't named religion, it would be named something else. It'd exists whether we want it to or not, whether it be tagged with god or not.

  5. #65
    Mouzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    ORLY?






    I'm sorry what was that again?

    learn2makesense

    learn2understand

    I explained he doesn't make promises, because if he does he'll never break them, I am speaking in a GENERAL SENSE, not saying that God NEVER EVER make promises.

    I also explained again of what I am talking about, I even clarified.
    Last edited by Mouzie; 03-31-2011 at 07:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzie View Post
    learn2understand

    I explained he doesn't make promises, because if he does he'll never break them, I am speaking in a GENERAL SENSE, not saying that God NEVER EVER make promises.

    I also explained again of what I am talking about, I even clarified.
    I underlined what you typed. It's cut and dry..but w/e
    Also, you are making very little sense.
    Everything that God said he would do for the nations of the Earth would be a promise..don't you think? He wouldn't just say he would do something and not honor it..therefore it's a promise. Not too hard to comprehend..


    1 Samuel 2:30

    "Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: 'I promised that your house and your father's house would minister before me forever.' But now the LORD declares: 'Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained."

    A promise is a promise, but the above passage clearly shows one broken.



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    666HiddenMaster666's Avatar
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    Armageddon

    Faith keeps one going mentally
    Technology keeps one going physically

    Even if one becomes insane, Nature's code will always make one do anything for survival, including KILLING others
    Quote Originally Posted by Extravagant View Post
    The problem is that we're people. People are shitty beings, you just gotta keep that in mind.
    "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." - Richard Dawkins
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Troll nomination. Allah and Muhammad for 1400 years of bullshit.

  8. #68
    Mouzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I underlined what you typed. It's cut and dry..but w/e
    Also, you are making very little sense.
    Everything that God said he would do for the nations of the Earth would be a promise..don't you think? He wouldn't just say he would do something and not honor it..therefore it's a promise. Not too hard to comprehend..


    1 Samuel 2:30

    "Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: 'I promised that your house and your father's house would minister before me forever.' But now the LORD declares: 'Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained."

    A promise is a promise, but the above passage clearly shows one broken.


    You're not getting it, you're so ignorant. ._.

    There is no points in arguring with you, because you're just going to repeat yourself.

    I said for the last time that God doesn't make promises IN GENERAL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzie View Post
    The reason why we existed is explained in the first few chapters of the Torah and the Bible.

    There is no hard answer to 'Who created God?' well the idea that God is 'us' in a way, when God created us, he created himself among us, therefore creating himself.

    God let us suffer because we're all sinners, when Eve took the bite that apple and broke his promise, she gain wisdom, but it was was wisdom away from God. Which explain our tastes for knowledge, answers, and wisdom, but not for his answer.

    The Torah explained if you read it that God never promises anything, God doesn't break his promises or lie. Therefore there is no record of him promising to take care of you during your lifetime of horrible suffering if ever.

    Wars, Famines, Illness, are not God works, they are the devil's work (I know it sounds stupid) but hey that's what it said in the Bibile/Torah.
    You say that God created himself when he was creating us. But you need something in order to create another thing. You can't create ''something'' out of ''nothing''.

    Not everybody is a sinner. Well, in my opinion. Your opinion says that everybody is a sinner. Then tell me, how can the Buddhists that went into Nirwana be sinners? You can only reach the highest level of purity by being pure yourself, if you've reached that state - you can get into nirwana. Yet again, several lands have been struck upon by ''Gods'' wrath - the lands which contain the Buddhists also.

    God doesn't exist and never has - therefor, he can't make promises.
    If I were to time-travel thousands of years back, and I were to create a ''Holy'' book, bury it, get some people/friends together, find the book, and begin my own religion - I could create anything I want.

  10. #70
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzie View Post
    You're not getting it, you're so ignorant. ._.

    There is no points in arguring with you, because you're just going to repeat yourself.

    I said for the last time that God doesn't make promises IN GENERAL.
    I'm ignorant?

    Right bro..because I have no understanding of theology.

    Also you're the one repeating yourself,
    I'm bringing facts, and you're just bringing idiocy.
    You've lost, now go away.

  11. #71
    Super Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I'm ignorant?

    Right bro..because I have no understanding of theology.

    Also you're the one repeating yourself,
    I'm bringing facts, and you're just bringing idiocy.
    You've lost, now go away.
    Take it easy mate.. He's only level 1..

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadskulz View Post
    TLR

    no religion = chaos

    everyone knows that would happend to people back 100-400 years ago, but now ppl are smarter than that
    .
    Says the atheist.


    Being capable of something and actually acting up on it are two different things. If God is permitting evil, there is a reason for it. There is nothing to indicate that he will allow evil to continue indefinitely.
    One theory is that He allows it to exist to give us a choice and that He wants us to come to him by choice rather than to force us to love Him. Another is that good and evil must coexist otherwise there would be no difference.
    God loves us enough to give us the capability to make choices on our own. man became sinners by nature after adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit. do any of us think that we are being loved when someone tries to control our every thought or action. there is no freedom in that in my opinion. sure, God could prevent evil in the world but then we all be robots so to speak. we choose whether we will do good or evil. as a believer i’m no longer a slave to sin. sin has no power over me anymore but that doesn’t mean i don’t sin in weak moments cause i do.
    It is important to understand what evil really is. God has given humanity a free will to choose to obey or not to obey. Once a person chooses to disobey God, they are free to make further choices about their actions. If God would prevent their choices there would no longer be free will, and we would all be puppets of God. Evil is the result of disobedience. There are only two ways for God to remove evil from this world. One way would be to remove the freedom of choice from each human being. The other way would be to have a testing period where people become so strong in their faith that they can resist evil.

    We need to view our earthly life as that of a toddler learning how to walk. A toddler may fall and hurt themselves, but eventually they will learn how to walk. When that child grows up and becomes an adult, they remember little about those bumps and scrapes and tears — they are just happy that they can walk properly. Sufferings, persecutions, and troubles help to build our faith so we can learn how to spiritually walk. What God has in mind for us after this brief earthly life, I don’t know. But I do know that it will be for an eternity. Certainly a few decades of bumps and scrapes are worth it if it prepares us for an eternity of working for God!

    The best answer at ‘Yahoo. answers’ was:

    "Why did God create the devil"? God didn’t create him as the Devil. This person who became a Devil was at one time a beautiful righteous angel who went bad on his own [Ezekiel 28:13-15]. The angel became Satan [which means Resister] and Devil [meaning Slanderer or Accuser] when he rebelled against his Creator and slandered him.

    The answer to other questions: Why doesn’t God just come down and stop famines, war and diseases and destroy the Devil? Well think about it this way: If a teacher is teaching the classroom and you have that one rebellious student who thinks that he can teach the class better than the teacher, the teacher could easily throw him out the class. But he allows the student to state his case in front of the students. What would happen if the teacher got mad and threw the student out? The other students might wonder if the student actually had a point. In the end the teacher proves otherwise. The Devil challenged Jehovah’s ruler-ship in the Garden of Eden, insinuating that he was a better ruler for Eve and in effect the human race. [See Genesis 3]. So to allow the Devil to state his case, God has allowed him thousands of years to prove whether the Devil’s way of ruler-ship is better, even if human have to suffer for a while. The number one issue is God’s name and ruler-ship and angels and humans are involved in it just like the classroom full of students. If God actually intervened and stopped all the bad things from happening, that would be a conflict of interest so to speak. He would actually be helping Satan to prove his case. The Bible teaches us that Satan is the world’s ruler and we see the terrible results of his ruler-ship. Prophetically Satan will eventually die [ See Genesis 3:15 and Revelation 20:10]. And the time will come when Jehovah will remove all bad things and mankind will no longer suffer [Revelation 20: 1-4]

    This answer is very precise and basic concept is similar to teachings of islam. Now let’s see what islam says about the topic.

    Islamic perspective:

    The Quran tells us that good, evil and whatever happens in this world happens by Allah’s Will (mashiat Allah). Only Allah knows fully His Will. We finite beings cannot grasp fully His infinite Will and Wisdom. He runs His universe the way He deems fit. The Quran tells us that Allah is Wise and everything that Allah does is right, just, good and fair.

    Allah did not make this world a permanent world. This is a temporary world and everything here has a time limit. When its times comes it will die, come to an end and finish. Neither the good things of this world are forever, nor the bad things eternal. We are here for a short time and we are being tested. Those who will pass this test will find an eternal world that is perfect and permanent. Those who will fail this test shall see the evil consequences of their sins and corruption.

    Suffering can also be a test and trial for some people. Allah allows some people to suffer in order to test their patience and steadfastness. Even Allah’s Prophets and Messengers were made to suffer.

    Allah sometimes allows some people to suffer to test others, how they react to them. When you see a person who is sick, poor and needy, then you are tested by Allah. Allah is there with that suffering person to test your charity and your faith.

    Suffering or tragedy occurs to teach us that we must adhere to Allah’s natural and moral laws. It is sometimes to punish those who violate Allah’s natural or moral laws. It is to test our faith in Allah and to test our commitment to human values and charity.
    Last edited by Martin Johnson; 04-01-2011 at 11:41 AM.

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

  13. #73
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Take it easy mate.. He's only level 1..
    No, the sad thing is he's lvl 3.

    I respect Mouzie, but he's pretty much failing in this particular debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarist. View Post


    Says the atheist.


    Being capable of something and actually acting up on it are two different things. If God is permitting evil, there is a reason for it. There is nothing to indicate that he will allow evil to continue indefinitely.
    One theory is that He allows it to exist to give us a choice and that He wants us to come to him by choice rather than to force us to love Him. Another is that good and evil must coexist otherwise there would be no difference.
    God loves us enough to give us the capability to make choices on our own. man became sinners by nature after adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit. do any of us think that we are being loved when someone tries to control our every thought or action. there is no freedom in that in my opinion. sure, God could prevent evil in the world but then we all be robots so to speak. we choose whether we will do good or evil. as a believer i’m no longer a slave to sin. sin has no power over me anymore but that doesn’t mean i don’t sin in weak moments cause i do.
    It is important to understand what evil really is. God has given humanity a free will to choose to obey or not to obey. Once a person chooses to disobey God, they are free to make further choices about their actions. If God would prevent their choices there would no longer be free will, and we would all be puppets of God. Evil is the result of disobedience. There are only two ways for God to remove evil from this world. One way would be to remove the freedom of choice from each human being. The other way would be to have a testing period where people become so strong in their faith that they can resist evil.

    We need to view our earthly life as that of a toddler learning how to walk. A toddler may fall and hurt themselves, but eventually they will learn how to walk. When that child grows up and becomes an adult, they remember little about those bumps and scrapes and tears — they are just happy that they can walk properly. Sufferings, persecutions, and troubles help to build our faith so we can learn how to spiritually walk. What God has in mind for us after this brief earthly life, I don’t know. But I do know that it will be for an eternity. Certainly a few decades of bumps and scrapes are worth it if it prepares us for an eternity of working for God!

    The best answer at ‘Yahoo. answers’ was:

    "Why did God create the devil"? God didn’t create him as the Devil. This person who became a Devil was at one time a beautiful righteous angel who went bad on his own [Ezekiel 28:13-15]. The angel became Satan [which means Resister] and Devil [meaning Slanderer or Accuser] when he rebelled against his Creator and slandered him.

    The answer to other questions: Why doesn’t God just come down and stop famines, war and diseases and destroy the Devil? Well think about it this way: If a teacher is teaching the classroom and you have that one rebellious student who thinks that he can teach the class better than the teacher, the teacher could easily throw him out the class. But he allows the student to state his case in front of the students. What would happen if the teacher got mad and threw the student out? The other students might wonder if the student actually had a point. In the end the teacher proves otherwise. The Devil challenged Jehovah’s ruler-ship in the Garden of Eden, insinuating that he was a better ruler for Eve and in effect the human race. [See Genesis 3]. So to allow the Devil to state his case, God has allowed him thousands of years to prove whether the Devil’s way of ruler-ship is better, even if human have to suffer for a while. The number one issue is God’s name and ruler-ship and angels and humans are involved in it just like the classroom full of students. If God actually intervened and stopped all the bad things from happening, that would be a conflict of interest so to speak. He would actually be helping Satan to prove his case. The Bible teaches us that Satan is the world’s ruler and we see the terrible results of his ruler-ship. Prophetically Satan will eventually die [ See Genesis 3:15 and Revelation 20:10]. And the time will come when Jehovah will remove all bad things and mankind will no longer suffer [Revelation 20: 1-4]

    This answer is very precise and basic concept is similar to teachings of islam. Now let’s see what islam says about the topic.

    Islamic perspective:

    The Quran tells us that good, evil and whatever happens in this world happens by Allah’s Will (mashiat Allah). Only Allah knows fully His Will. We finite beings cannot grasp fully His infinite Will and Wisdom. He runs His universe the way He deems fit. The Quran tells us that Allah is Wise and everything that Allah does is right, just, good and fair.

    Allah did not make this world a permanent world. This is a temporary world and everything here has a time limit. When its times comes it will die, come to an end and finish. Neither the good things of this world are forever, nor the bad things eternal. We are here for a short time and we are being tested. Those who will pass this test will find an eternal world that is perfect and permanent. Those who will fail this test shall see the evil consequences of their sins and corruption.

    Suffering can also be a test and trial for some people. Allah allows some people to suffer in order to test their patience and steadfastness. Even Allah’s Prophets and Messengers were made to suffer.

    Allah sometimes allows some people to suffer to test others, how they react to them. When you see a person who is sick, poor and needy, then you are tested by Allah. Allah is there with that suffering person to test your charity and your faith.

    Suffering or tragedy occurs to teach us that we must adhere to Allah’s natural and moral laws. It is sometimes to punish those who violate Allah’s natural or moral laws. It is to test our faith in Allah and to test our commitment to human values and charity.
    Tl;DR

    PS.
    Qur'ran is lolz, and rips so much off of everything.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 04-01-2011 at 04:02 PM.

  14. #74
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/02/wo...stan.html?_r=1

    If you think this is a necessary evil you're a horrible human being.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  15. #75
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/02/wo...stan.html?_r=1

    If you think this is a necessary evil you're a horrible human being.
    Blood for poo poo on paper?

    Sure seems like an even exchange to me.


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