Thread: Allah Miracle

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    Muslims believe the Quran to be verbally revealed through angel Jibrīl (Gabriel) from God to Muhammad gradually over a period of approximately 23 years beginning on 22 December 609 CE,[8] when Muhammad was 40, and concluding in 632 CE, the year of his death. According to Wikipedia. I have copied from another site as i do not have the knowledge required to explain it like that.

    Anyway in the diagram you can see that they mix gradually, not suddenly as zone of partition is not a fine line. What i am trying to point out is how could a man know this hundreds of years ago? It is obviously not luck.

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  3. #153
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    I am going to sleep. It has been a pleasure talking with you lot. I will leave with a few verses from the Qur'an. May God guide you to the right path and forgive our shortcomings.
    Chapter 23 Verse 115. "Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?"

    Chapter 23 99. Until, when death comes to one of them (those who join partners with Allah), he says: "My Lord! Send me back,
    100. "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!" No! It is but a word that he speaks, and behind them is Barzakh (a barrier) until the Day when they will be resurrected.

    105. "Were not My Verses (this Qur'an) recited to you, and then you used to deny them?"

    106. They will say: "Our Lord! Our wretchedness overcame us, and we were (an) erring people.

    107. "Our Lord! Bring us out of this; if ever we return (to evil), then indeed we shall be Zalimun: (polytheists, oppressors, unjust, and wrong-doers, etc.)."

    108. He (Allah) will say: "Remain you in it with ignominy! And speak you not to Me!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by trutik View Post
    Muslims believe the Quran to be verbally revealed through angel Jibrīl (Gabriel) from God to Muhammad gradually over a period of approximately 23 years beginning on 22 December 609 CE,[8] when Muhammad was 40, and concluding in 632 CE, the year of his death. According to Wikipedia. I have copied from another site as i do not have the knowledge required to explain it like that.

    Anyway in the diagram you can see that they mix gradually, not suddenly as zone of partition is not a fine line. What i am trying to point out is how could a man know this hundreds of years ago? It is obviously not luck.
    No shit it wasn't luck. It was some variant of the scientific method.

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    Chapter 67
    6.And for those who disbelieve in their Lord (Allah) is the torment of Hell, and worst indeed is that destination.

    7. When they are cast therein, they will hear the (terrible) drawing in of its breath as it blazes forth.

    8. It almost bursts up with fury. Every time a group is cast therein, its keeper will ask: "Did no warner come to you?"

    9. They will say: "Yes indeed; a warner did come to us, but we belied him and said: 'Allah never sent down anything (of revelation), you are only in great error.'"

    10. And they will say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by trutik View Post
    Chapter 67
    6.And for those who disbelieve in their Lord (Allah) is the torment of Hell, and worst indeed is that destination.

    7. When they are cast therein, they will hear the (terrible) drawing in of its breath as it blazes forth.

    8. It almost bursts up with fury. Every time a group is cast therein, its keeper will ask: "Did no warner come to you?"

    9. They will say: "Yes indeed; a warner did come to us, but we belied him and said: 'Allah never sent down anything (of revelation), you are only in great error.'"

    10. And they will say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!"
    I am god .
    Since there is text on this post claiming I'm god ergo I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trutik View Post
    Lehsyrus i know you think that the language in the Qur'an is ambiguous and you may have a valid reason for this as there are people who translate the Qur'an incorrectly just to make it suit their needs. This is why i encourage you to learn arabic so that you can see the truth with your OWN eyes.
    That's a load of shit sir. There are English translations of the Quran that are word for word transcribed correctly.
    Don't play the language barrier card, because it won't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trutik View Post
    Muslims believe the Quran to be verbally revealed through angel Jibrīl (Gabriel) from God to Muhammad gradually over a period of approximately 23 years beginning on 22 December 609 CE,[8] when Muhammad was 40, and concluding in 632 CE, the year of his death. According to Wikipedia. I have copied from another site as i do not have the knowledge required to explain it like that.

    Anyway in the diagram you can see that they mix gradually, not suddenly as zone of partition is not a fine line. What i am trying to point out is how could a man know this hundreds of years ago? It is obviously not luck.
    Just to point out. God never said anything nor made any laws except right before they were needed according to Muhammed.

    God just forgot to mention everything on slavery, war and such till muhammed came to power I guess. Must not have been important.


  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666HiddenMaster666 View Post


    Before I go on in this one, I need to know what you think the year that the Koran was written in, an estimate is ok



    If you're saying that god was the only person that separated each celestial bodies from each other, then it seems like you've missed simple astrophysics

    As for Fig. 2 and 4, the explanation isn't clear enough for me to understand
    In any case, they slowly mix together, not suddenly
    And the reason why the ocean's saltwater doesn't corrupt the river's freshwater is because the river is flowing into the ocean, pushing the fresh- and saltwater out
    This part is mostly chemistry, so maybe @Lehsyrus might know more

    Finally, it seems like you've copied from some other site, rather than your own words, which is stupid
    He is speaking of calcium deposits but does not realize it. The calcium deposits in that portion of the world build up in the ocean where salt and fresh water meet because it can sustain different types of organisms that take in the salt and basically shit out calcium. This displaces the pH balance causing a physical reaction where the salt water is "noticeably" sitting on top of the fresh water, though this happens EVERYWHERE salt and fresh water meet because salt water is less dense than fresh water. The only reason it is more noticeable there is due to the minerals in the waters and the climate.

    Its ironic, because he acts like the Qur'an has some sort of "amazing evidence", meanwhile he neglects to realize how intelligent the people of that time actually were. Hell, ancient Greeks knew about static electricity. But yeah all the Qur'an does is take something that people have seen "salt and fresh water displacement" and call it a "barrier".

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    I am not the one playing the language barrier card it was Lehsyrus who did that. I said you can not say that the language is ambiguous if you do not know arabic. And Empire, if all God's laws came down at the same time, do you think that anyone would follow them? God knows us better than anyone else because he created us. If we got told in one day EVERYTHING we can and can't do then hardly anyone if anyone would accept those laws. Did you know for 16 years he was just preaching that there was only one God? Nothing else. Just that. All the prophets came with the same message: Worship ONE god, why worship that which your own hands have made? Worship the person who created you, the only one worthy of worship.

    The second reason, he was only human and receiving a revelation from god is not an easy thing. Chapter 25 verse 32. "And those who disbelieve say: "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once?" Thus (it is sent down in parts), that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it to you gradually, in stages."

    In one hadith (Someone narrating something about the prophet)"Verily, I saw him receiving revelation and I noticed the sweat dropping from his forehead on a very cold day as the revelation ended.''

    HQ: Quran & Modern Science - Compatible or Incompatible 2008 - Dr. Zakir Naik Part 1/14
    Here is a nice talk by a Doctor who knows about science and the Qur'an which i think you will enjoy so please take the time to watch it. Skip to 05:08 if you want to go straight into the important stuff, the beginning is just an intro about the speaker. It is in English so don't let the intro mislead you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trutik View Post
    I am not the one playing the language barrier card it was Lehsyrus who did that. I said you can not say that the language is ambiguous if you do not know arabic. And Empire, if all God's laws came down at the same time, do you think that anyone would follow them? God knows us better than anyone else because he created us. If we got told in one day EVERYTHING we can and can't do then hardly anyone if anyone would accept those laws. Did you know for 16 years he was just preaching that there was only one God? Nothing else. Just that. All the prophets came with the same message: Worship ONE god, why worship that which your own hands have made? Worship the person who created you, the only one worthy of worship.

    The second reason, he was only human and receiving a revelation from god is not an easy thing. Chapter 25 verse 32. "And those who disbelieve say: "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once?" Thus (it is sent down in parts), that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it to you gradually, in stages."

    In one hadith (Someone narrating something about the prophet)"Verily, I saw him receiving revelation and I noticed the sweat dropping from his forehead on a very cold day as the revelation ended.''

    HQ: Quran & Modern Science - Compatible or Incompatible 2008 - Dr. Zakir Naik Part 1/14
    Here is a nice talk by a Doctor who knows about science and the Qur'an which i think you will enjoy so please take the time to watch it. Skip to 05:08 if you want to go straight into the important stuff, the beginning is just an intro about the speaker. It is in English so don't let the intro mislead you.
    Even the literal translations that are presented verbatim provide an ambiguous deciphering of the texts.

    So basically, from what you say, the Qur'an is believable because it was written in partitions? Your entire argument is based on IF statements, we're all people who are looking for FACTS. That argument does not hold with us.


    ---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------

    I just attempted to watch that video and the actual speaker was speaking in a mix of Arabic and Engish, so I can not give any feedback on the video.

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    Lehsyrus he speaks in english, when he speaks arabic it is because he is quoting from the Qur'an and then he gives the english translation straight after so please try to watch the whole talk.

    ---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    So basically, from what you say, the Qur'an is believable because it was written in partitions?
    No the reasoning I used for the Qur'an being believable is not the fact that it was written in partitions. I only mentioned the reasoning for it being revealed in partitions because Empire implied that the Qur'an was fake due to it being revealed in partitions.
    Last edited by trutik; 01-07-2013 at 11:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trutik View Post
    Lehsyrus he speaks in english, when he speaks arabic it is because he is quoting from the Qur'an and then he gives the english translation straight after so please try to watch the whole talk.

    ---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------



    No the reasoning I used for the Qur'an being believable is not the fact that it was written in partitions. I only mentioned the reasoning for it being revealed in partitions because Empire implied that the Qur'an was fake due to it being revealed in partitions.
    Basically it boils down to this:

    1. Lehs is trying to point out that the quran is written in all langauges in very ambiguous way. It can be taken in 10 different ways and has no clear mentioning of scientific facts discovered later.
    -To put it in an example:

    Scientist A discovers scientific fact Z! It is new to the world and humans have had no prior knowledge of this subject beforehand.
    -Date 1990.
    Muslim B, then goes back to the quran trying to prove that he already knew scientific fact Z with the Quran.


    Muslim B and rather all muslims, did not know scientific fact Z before scientist A discovered it in 1990, but try to argue that the quran knew of it way before hand.
    --------
    In the end you are trying to take credit for a scientist work by saying the quran did it first even though it is VERY CLEAR that know one knew the fact before the scientist discovered it.
    -----------------------------

    2. My point was that Allah coincidentally mentions things as they come up, not before. Think about it, the quran was written over 23 years ending with Muhammed's death. How odd is it that god takes 23 years to write down important shit and to not give it at once, and to stop at Muhammeds death. Hell, the quran never outright banned slavery, did god just forget that/?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Hell, the quran never outright banned slavery, did god just forget that/?
    Firstly, not a single letter of the Qur'an has been changed since it had been compiled or revealed. What is written is written. If the scientific facts are there then they are there as you can see in the video(s), it has not been changed to include them.

    Secondly, the issue of slavery. Let me tell you that the only slaves allowed in Islam are prisoners of war. This means that person was trying to kill you/may have killed many people. Let us see the punishment of murder in America. Prison for life right? How are the prisoners treated? They sleep rough and have little food, wear the same clothes and are behind bars for the rest of their life. In Islam when someone murders someone then they are subject to capital punishment. So let us see what enslaving prisoners of war entails in Islam and compare with potential prisoners in some countries and corpses in others. It is not the type of slavery you are probably thinking.

    1 – Guaranteeing them food and clothing like that of their masters.

    It was narrated that Abu Dharr said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “They are your brothers whom Allaah has put under your authority, so if Allaah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (A Person who compiled narrations of the prophet) (6050).

    2 – Preserving their dignity

    It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard Abu’l-Qaasim (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever accuses his slave when he is innocent of what he says will be flogged on the Day of Resurrection, unless he is as he said.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6858).

    Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) manumitted a slave of his, then he picked up a stick or something from the ground and said: There is no more reward in it than the equivalent of this, but I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever slaps his slave or beats him, his expiation is to manumit him.” Narrated by Muslim (1657).

    3 – Being fair towards slaves and treating them kindly

    It was narrated that ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan tweaked the ear of a slave of his when he did something wrong, then he said to him after that: Come and tweak my ear in retaliation. The slave refused but he insisted, so he started to tweak it slightly, and he said to him: Do it strongly, for I cannot bear the punishment on the Day of Resurrection. The slave said: Like that, O my master? The Day that you fear I fear also.

    When ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf (may Allaah be pleased with him) walked among his slaves, no one could tell him apart from them, because he did not walk ahead of them, and he did not wear anything different from what they wore.

    One day ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab passed by and saw some slaves standing and not eating with their master. He got angry and said to their master: What is wrong with people who are selfish towards their servants? Then he called the servants and they ate with them.

    A man entered upon Salmaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) and found him making dough – and he was a governor. He said to him: O Abu ‘Abd-Allaah, what is this? He said: We have sent our servant on an errand and we do not want to give him two jobs at once.

    4 – A slave may buy himself from his master and be free.

    If a person is enslaved for some reason but then it becomes apparent that he has given up his wrongdoing and forgotten his past, and he has become a man who shuns evil and seeks to do good, is it permissible to respond to his request to let him go free? Islam says yes, and there are some scholars who say that this is obligatory and some who say that it is mustahabb(Highly recommended).

    This is what is called a mukaatabah or contract of manumission between the slave and his master. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allaah which He has bestowed upon you”

    [al-Noor 24:33]

    As you can see the principle of dealing with prisoners of war in Islam is a combination of justice, kindness and compassion. It is worth pointing out that you do not find any text in the Qur’aan or Sunnah (Way of the prophet) which enjoins taking others as slaves, whereas there are dozens of texts in the Qur’aan and the ahaadeeth (Narrations of what the prophet said) of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) which call for manumitting slaves and freeing them. Capture of prisoners during war was the most common way of acquiring slaves. Prisoners would inevitably be captured during any war, and the prevalent custom at that time was that prisoners had no protection or rights; they would either be killed or enslaved. But Islam brought two more options: unconditional release or ransom. There were many sources of slaves at the time of the advent of Islam, whereas the means of manumitting them were virtually nil. Islam changed the way in which slavery was dealt with; it created many new ways of liberating slaves, blocked many ways of enslaving people, and established guidelines which blocked these means.

    Gustave le Bon says in "Arab Civilization" (p. 459-460): "What I sincerely believe is that slavery among the Muslims is better than slavery among any other people, and that the situation of slaves in the east is better than that of servants in Europe, and that slaves in the east are part of the family. Slaves who wanted to be free could attain freedom by expressing their wish. But despite that, they did not resort to exercising this right."

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    Quote Originally Posted by trutik View Post
    Firstly, not a single letter of the Qur'an has been changed since it had been compiled or revealed. What is written is written. If the scientific facts are there then they are there as you can see in the video(s), it has not been changed to include them.

    Secondly, the issue of slavery. Let me tell you that the only slaves allowed in Islam are prisoners of war. This means that person was trying to kill you/may have killed many people. Let us see the punishment of murder in America. Prison for life right? How are the prisoners treated? They sleep rough and have little food, wear the same clothes and are behind bars for the rest of their life. In Islam when someone murders someone then they are subject to capital punishment. So let us see what enslaving prisoners of war entails in Islam and compare with potential prisoners in some countries and corpses in others. It is not the type of slavery you are probably thinking.

    1 – Guaranteeing them food and clothing like that of their masters.

    It was narrated that Abu Dharr said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “They are your brothers whom Allaah has put under your authority, so if Allaah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (A Person who compiled narrations of the prophet) (6050).

    2 – Preserving their dignity

    It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard Abu’l-Qaasim (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever accuses his slave when he is innocent of what he says will be flogged on the Day of Resurrection, unless he is as he said.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6858).

    Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) manumitted a slave of his, then he picked up a stick or something from the ground and said: There is no more reward in it than the equivalent of this, but I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever slaps his slave or beats him, his expiation is to manumit him.” Narrated by Muslim (1657).

    3 – Being fair towards slaves and treating them kindly

    It was narrated that ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan tweaked the ear of a slave of his when he did something wrong, then he said to him after that: Come and tweak my ear in retaliation. The slave refused but he insisted, so he started to tweak it slightly, and he said to him: Do it strongly, for I cannot bear the punishment on the Day of Resurrection. The slave said: Like that, O my master? The Day that you fear I fear also.

    When ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf (may Allaah be pleased with him) walked among his slaves, no one could tell him apart from them, because he did not walk ahead of them, and he did not wear anything different from what they wore.

    One day ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab passed by and saw some slaves standing and not eating with their master. He got angry and said to their master: What is wrong with people who are selfish towards their servants? Then he called the servants and they ate with them.

    A man entered upon Salmaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) and found him making dough – and he was a governor. He said to him: O Abu ‘Abd-Allaah, what is this? He said: We have sent our servant on an errand and we do not want to give him two jobs at once.

    4 – A slave may buy himself from his master and be free.

    If a person is enslaved for some reason but then it becomes apparent that he has given up his wrongdoing and forgotten his past, and he has become a man who shuns evil and seeks to do good, is it permissible to respond to his request to let him go free? Islam says yes, and there are some scholars who say that this is obligatory and some who say that it is mustahabb(Highly recommended).

    This is what is called a mukaatabah or contract of manumission between the slave and his master. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allaah which He has bestowed upon you”

    [al-Noor 24:33]

    As you can see the principle of dealing with prisoners of war in Islam is a combination of justice, kindness and compassion. It is worth pointing out that you do not find any text in the Qur’aan or Sunnah (Way of the prophet) which enjoins taking others as slaves, whereas there are dozens of texts in the Qur’aan and the ahaadeeth (Narrations of what the prophet said) of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) which call for manumitting slaves and freeing them. Capture of prisoners during war was the most common way of acquiring slaves. Prisoners would inevitably be captured during any war, and the prevalent custom at that time was that prisoners had no protection or rights; they would either be killed or enslaved. But Islam brought two more options: unconditional release or ransom. There were many sources of slaves at the time of the advent of Islam, whereas the means of manumitting them were virtually nil. Islam changed the way in which slavery was dealt with; it created many new ways of liberating slaves, blocked many ways of enslaving people, and established guidelines which blocked these means.

    Gustave le Bon says in "Arab Civilization" (p. 459-460): "What I sincerely believe is that slavery among the Muslims is better than slavery among any other people, and that the situation of slaves in the east is better than that of servants in Europe, and that slaves in the east are part of the family. Slaves who wanted to be free could attain freedom by expressing their wish. But despite that, they did not resort to exercising this right."
    You do realize why no one takes any of your posts seriously right. Every time you post some shitty circular hive mind logic which you C+P of a website, users actually take time to comprehensively counter every point you make. When every point is countered, you proceed to select one of them and C+P more shitty circular logic which you found via google.
    You do not deserve responses. You lack the decency to debate point for point and we lack the decency to ignore your posts. The problem isn't even your inability to come up with linear arguments, the problem is the exponential amount of resources you make us pull together every time you C+P bull shit. Earlier during this thread, you claimed you didn't have the knowledge to argue points so you C+P'd. If you can't argue it and we're blatantly shitting on the copy and pastes every time, maybe its time to shut the fuck up and think for yourself LOGICALLY.

    The belief in god is not illogical or dumb. You know what's dumb? The inability to recognized you've been brainwashed even though you're sitting in front of the biggest compilation of knowledge man-kind has ever seen, the internet.
    Last edited by noob555; 01-09-2013 at 12:37 AM.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to noob555 For This Useful Post:

    [MPGH]Lehsyrus (01-10-2013)

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