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  1. #1
    Empire's Avatar
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    Religion isn't needed.

    This is a thread, not necessarily defending religion but pointing out the flaw in the general anti-religion argument.

    We, as a race, all of us: Do not need religion to do anything.
    -But wait! That's anti-religion!? No, it isn't. Religion doesn't dictate what we do.
    --------------------------------------------------

    This seems so simple yet its constantly overlooked as we blame or praise religion for everything and anything. The concept of personal choices, cause-effect relationships, and simple reality is ignored for this make believe assumption that religion is the root of the situation.



    Let me explain clearly so this isn't misinterpreted: Religion did not do anything.


    Religion didn't save those people, it didn't start a crusade, and it sure as hell isn't to blame for the actions taken by any individual.
    -----------------------------------------------------

    Let me address 2 major points. Futility and Reality

    1. Futility:
    -As much as people may hate to admit it, religion is just an idea. A belief, a set of rules, or a cultural habit. If you blame or praise religion what happens to it? Nothing. The core of the problem has never been "you believe this set of rules", its always been about as a whole what people believe. Do you think its ok to kill someone? Well regardless of your religion you are going to do it. Religion is always given this sort of "if its ok" feature and if its not included people think "oh that's why." Nope, that isn't the case. The person is always the case. We are just lazy/ignorant and chalk it up to one feature or another. This is the same with racism, and really any other stereotype you can think of.


    2. Reality:
    -Humans suck. We, as a whole, are just shit. We delude ourselves in every which way possible so that we feel good, but we are really just awful people. We blame religion because its an easy pass-off. The cause is always going to be humanity is shit. No one wants to hear that so its religion, society, or any other bullshit excuse.

    Let me ask you: If we humans create so many atrocities against our own, don't stop them, or just don't care: Why bother blaming religion? What does that even solve? People drop the religion, but the religion was never the cause, so it just happens over and over and over.
    ----------------------------------------

    Sorry, I just get tired of hearing "its________ religion's fault" as if people don't want the asshole who suicide bombed to take the blame.


  2. #2
    666HiddenMaster666's Avatar
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    Good points, but I think I would have to settle between a mix of religion and the people themselves to be blamed. The reason for people is the same as yours, that humans are naturally shitty, but the reason that I included religion is that the strength in their beliefs is what drives them to commit those atrocities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extravagant View Post
    The problem is that we're people. People are shitty beings, you just gotta keep that in mind.
    "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." - Richard Dawkins
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Troll nomination. Allah and Muhammad for 1400 years of bullshit.

  3. #3
    Shayde's Avatar
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    At last someone that has a brain and understands what I tink.

  4. #4
    ☬Ξη†τσρîζ Ζσ♍βîε δτσηε☬
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    This is a thread, not necessarily defending religion but pointing out the flaw in the general anti-religion argument.

    We, as a race, all of us: Do not need religion to do anything.
    -But wait! That's anti-religion!? No, it isn't. Religion doesn't dictate what we do.
    --------------------------------------------------

    This seems so simple yet its constantly overlooked as we blame or praise religion for everything and anything. The concept of personal choices, cause-effect relationships, and simple reality is ignored for this make believe assumption that religion is the root of the situation.



    Let me explain clearly so this isn't misinterpreted: Religion did not do anything.


    Religion didn't save those people, it didn't start a crusade, and it sure as hell isn't to blame for the actions taken by any individual.
    -----------------------------------------------------

    Let me address 2 major points. Futility and Reality

    1. Futility:
    -As much as people may hate to admit it, religion is just an idea. A belief, a set of rules, or a cultural habit. If you blame or praise religion what happens to it? Nothing. The core of the problem has never been "you believe this set of rules", its always been about as a whole what people believe. Do you think its ok to kill someone? Well regardless of your religion you are going to do it. Religion is always given this sort of "if its ok" feature and if its not included people think "oh that's why." Nope, that isn't the case. The person is always the case. We are just lazy/ignorant and chalk it up to one feature or another. This is the same with racism, and really any other stereotype you can think of.


    2. Reality:
    -Humans suck. We, as a whole, are just shit. We delude ourselves in every which way possible so that we feel good, but we are really just awful people. We blame religion because its an easy pass-off. The cause is always going to be humanity is shit. No one wants to hear that so its religion, society, or any other bullshit excuse.

    Let me ask you: If we humans create so many atrocities against our own, don't stop them, or just don't care: Why bother blaming religion? What does that even solve? People drop the religion, but the religion was never the cause, so it just happens over and over and over.
    ----------------------------------------

    Sorry, I just get tired of hearing "its________ religion's fault" as if people don't want the asshole who suicide bombed to take the blame.
    I partially agree. The reason I say partially is because I agree with the notion that Human's suck, however religion does play a large role in certain societies cultural moral. With the issue of Islam, it was derived from Judaism and Paganism to create a God that is all-powerful and violent in himself. Many people take their religion to heart and believe following said religion verbatim, so we see people interpreting the Qur'an verbatim and committing these atrocities. These people have more faith in their religion than they do in their fellow man, which is why they commit these atrocities. If the religion was not around, said people would have the ability to advance just as the rest of the world has in a proper form. Their morals are dictated by their belief and cultural background, if the religion is of the region is violent it will be a part of said cultural background.

    Look at Charles Manson. The people who followed him were not violent people, however after being brainwashed the majority (excluding one girl) committed disgusting murders for him.

  5. #5
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post


    I partially agree. The reason I say partially is because I agree with the notion that Human's suck, however religion does play a large role in certain societies cultural moral. With the issue of Islam, it was derived from Judaism and Paganism to create a God that is all-powerful and violent in himself. Many people take their religion to heart and believe following said religion verbatim, so we see people interpreting the Qur'an verbatim and committing these atrocities. These people have more faith in their religion than they do in their fellow man, which is why they commit these atrocities. If the religion was not around, said people would have the ability to advance just as the rest of the world has in a proper form. Their morals are dictated by their belief and cultural background, if the religion is of the region is violent it will be a part of said cultural background.

    Look at Charles Manson. The people who followed him were not violent people, however after being brainwashed the majority (excluding one girl) committed disgusting murders for him.

    Well it essentially boils down to people, and a belief held by a lot of people.

    However strongly you believe in said belief, you believe in other things in accordance. Thing is, its just a belief in the end. You can blame it all you want or try and stop it, until humanity reaches a higher stage of intelligence as a whole, this shit will always happen.
    -This does not mean certain religions are right, or that they are just "untouchable" by logic. No. There is so many contradictions, faults, and just general bad ethical practice that it will always be a controversy. Most religions are just flat out wrong by their very own laws, but I don't believe any set of beliefs is the legit cause for any action. If I believe murder is ok because of my religion, I don't see how people take it upon themselves to blame the religion and just dismiss the person.
    ----------------------

    I guess the point is: Blaming or praising, religion is never the cause. Its always us, it always has been. It would be nice if people would stop doing ______ and using _______ as an excuse, but at the same time that could happen for any other reason.

    I mean religion, race, any form of difference will always be used as an excuse for hate.


  6. #6
    Aborted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post



    Well it essentially boils down to people, and a belief held by a lot of people.

    However strongly you believe in said belief, you believe in other things in accordance. Thing is, its just a belief in the end. You can blame it all you want or try and stop it, until humanity reaches a higher stage of intelligence as a whole, this shit will always happen.
    -This does not mean certain religions are right, or that they are just "untouchable" by logic. No. There is so many contradictions, faults, and just general bad ethical practice that it will always be a controversy. Most religions are just flat out wrong by their very own laws, but I don't believe any set of beliefs is the legit cause for any action. If I believe murder is ok because of my religion, I don't see how people take it upon themselves to blame the religion and just dismiss the person.
    ----------------------

    I guess the point is: Blaming or praising, religion is never the cause. Its always us, it always has been. It would be nice if people would stop doing ______ and using _______ as an excuse, but at the same time that could happen for any other reason.

    I mean religion, race, any form of difference will always be used as an excuse for hate.
    Precisely, mankind will always direct blame or cause to those not in accordance with their own beliefs. Every human being has the corruption of their own arrogance. None of us are willing to accept the daunting thought of our own wrongs. The sad realization is that there is forseeable stop to these aforementioned issues. It is a trait firmly engrained in the very fiber of the human race.
    When the earth is changed into a humid dungeon,
    In which Hope like a bat
    Goes beating the walls with her timid wings
    And knocking her head against the rotten ceiling;
    When the rain stretching out its endless train
    Imitates the bars of a vast prison
    And a silent horde of loathsome spiders
    Comes to spin their webs in the depths of our brains,
    All at once the bells leap with rage
    And hurl a frightful roar at heaven,
    Even as wandering spirits with no country
    Burst into a stubborn, whimpering cry.
    — And without drums or music, long hearses
    Pass by slowly in my soul; Hope, vanquished,
    Weeps, and atrocious, despotic Anguish
    On my bowed skull plants her black flag.

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