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  1. #76
    maddoggy00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noob555 View Post
    The quoting function doesn't multipost anymore for some reason.
    I'm saying any established confidence which is broken is considered bad faith, therefore immoral.
    If being a decent fucking person sends me to hell, then god is one shitty fucking being. I rather spend my time learning as much as I can about existence than spend my time stroking Gods ego. Death is law, not punishment. I'm not going to waste my life fretting about the non existential. I'm going to live my life and live it well. You're all so worried about the past and the future. Both of which don't exist in the present. Worries are prayers to your fears. If you stay grounded in reality your suffering will end. You'd realize that god and all the positive feedback cycles are irrelevant. Fearing death is like fearing being born, I'm not going to waste my time being afraid of something which isn't real.
    Interesting thought. But what if you don't put good faith in someone, then they kill you. Extreme example, yes, but valid for proofs. Are you saying this means that the killing is not evil in this instance?

    And some religions say being a good person is enough to get to heaven. Others say you must take a step further and do it for the right reasons, depicted in their respective texts. So the latter would be a bad situation for you. In any case though, wait til you are married and you will see just how selfish of a person you can be. Things that are not self-evident become blatantly apparent, and you might not consider yourself "decent" once it is revealed. Sure, you might not be killing anyone, but you're committing some pretty "evil" (using your definition above) deeds in your mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico View Post
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  2. #77
    noob555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddoggy00 View Post

    Interesting thought. But what if you don't put good faith in someone, then they kill you. Extreme example, yes, but valid for proofs. Are you saying this means that the killing is not evil in this instance?

    And some religions say being a good person is enough to get to heaven. Others say you must take a step further and do it for the right reasons, depicted in their respective texts. So the latter would be a bad situation for you. In any case though, wait til you are married and you will see just how selfish of a person you can be. Things that are not self-evident become blatantly apparent, and you might not consider yourself "decent" once it is revealed. Sure, you might not be killing anyone, but you're committing some pretty "evil" (using your definition above) deeds in your mind.
    Society and the government deal justice, vigilante justice is not justice.
    If the latter is God then fuck God. All selfishness is the product of fear. Courage is grace under pressure; if you live truly courageously then you will never be selfish.
    The only way you can act truly courageously is by loving. All fear is the product of not loving or not loving well enough, which is essentially the same thing. From an alternate perspective, fear is imagination. If you stay grounded in reality, you will never be afraid. Being grounded in reality allows you to realize the world is based on faith in the existence of you and other human beings. A greater realization can be derived, love is faith as an art. Once you stay faithful to yourself to the extent that you love yourself, you can become to love others. At the end of the tunnel is altruism. The answer to all suffering. Many religions believe altruism to be the highest form of enlightenment. And it is, the only problem with religion is that it is self effacing.

  3. #78
    maddoggy00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noob555 View Post
    All selfishness is the product of fear. Courage is grace under pressure; if you live truly courageously then you will never be selfish.
    The only way you can act truly courageously is by loving. All fear is the product of not loving or not loving well enough, which is essentially the same thing.
    I agree.


    Quote Originally Posted by noob555 View Post
    From an alternate perspective, fear is imagination. If you stay grounded in reality, you will never be afraid. Being grounded in reality allows you to realize the world is based on faith in the existence of you and other human beings.
    Unfortunately, I do not think any human being is capable of this, which is why, applying your definition of evil, there will always be evil in the world. Referring to the OP, this train of thought means that a god is not the source of evil.


    Quote Originally Posted by noob555 View Post
    A greater realization can be derived, love is faith as an art. Once you stay faithful to yourself to the extent that you love yourself, you can become to love others. At the end of the tunnel is altruism. The answer to all suffering. Many religions believe altruism to be the highest form of enlightenment. And it is, the only problem with religion is that it is self effacing.
    I would slightly amend this to say love is a choice. I would also add to this portion of what you said, though, that altruism is not mutual exclusive to religion.


    Quote Originally Posted by noob555 View Post
    Society and the government deal justice, vigilante justice is not justice.
    This brings me back to my original point, though. Which government decides what is justice? How do you reconcile the differences in priorities, and therefore laws where the trust in all individuals under the law will be based, between different governments, past and current?



    PS. Thanks for actually answering my question and not just insulting other people expecting that to prove your "logic".

    As of 9/17, I will be away for a few days due to medical reasons. Should be back up soon. Please refer to a GM or other mods in whatever particular section you need help with.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nico View Post
    I'm playing legit with my hacks
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  4. #79
    noob555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddoggy00 View Post

    I agree.



    Unfortunately, I do not think any human being is capable of this, which is why, applying your definition of evil, there will always be evil in the world. Referring to the OP, this train of thought means that a god is not the source of evil.



    I would slightly amend this to say love is a choice. I would also add to this portion of what you said, though, that altruism is not mutual exclusive to religion.



    This brings me back to my original point, though. Which government decides what is justice? How do you reconcile the differences in priorities, and therefore laws where the trust in all individuals under the law will be based, between different governments, past and current?



    PS. Thanks for actually answering my question and not just insulting other people expecting that to prove your "logic".
    Being grounded in reality can be achieved through meditation. Everyone can do it, we all inherently have a sense of nihilism. Through meditation you can overcome it. Meditation is merely thinking. Thinking goes a long way. I never said altruism was mutually exclusive to religion, I'm clearly not religious and I believe altruism can only be achieved with out religion. According to Richard St. John's research on success, the common denominator between all success is love. Love is a choice. You can either transcend the illusion of life, or succumb to it. The world is changing, if you step back and look at it from a greater scope, it's improving. If you look at all the laws being changed, added, etc. etc., you can see that faith is the core of all of it. The world is not perfect at the moment, but as members of a first world country we have the opportunities to be the greater fools. We live in a age of knowledge, and we should use it to our greatest advantage. A greater number of us have the chance to change the world than ever before. Seize the opportunity and become more than just a statistic.

  5. #80
    Empire's Avatar
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    :/ Bleh, I knew it was some abstract argument on relative ethics and how you "can't have ethics without god".


    Oh the trickle down argument ? Didn't realize people still based their views on 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon, lulz.
    -------------------
    Ok lets start from the top since people don't realize how stupid this is otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddoggy00 View Post


    I'll try to connect the dots more clearly for you. The point I'm making is <if you assume there is no god>, then you cannot determine who has the authority to decide what is moral, and therefore what is considered evil. There is no proper person or set of people to categorize morality, or evil, because they are inherently bound to, affected by, and biased by those laws. Therefore, there is no universal set of morals, or no universal "evil". By definition, to call someone evil, or without morals, you are admitting there is a higher authority, outside the parameters contained within those laws. Otherwise you are just saying that you don't like the person based on your own <individual> set of priorities, or in other words saying, "I think you're evil" and not, "you are evil". This theory/thought process is called the law of morality. When I mentioned legislation a few posts ago, I was relating this idea to something more tangible. Different sets of people create, interpret, and enforce laws to replicate the best they can this concept of morality. The problem is, though, these sets of people will never truly be separated from each other's circumstances, and therefore will be set within their own parameters, voiding a true universal set of values.
    1. False: God has no impact on "what is moral." It's not as if an atheist society has no ethics or that you cannot define evil without god. In fact many of the now-known things to be evil, were not specified by religion in clear text or at all, leaving centuries of mankind without that knowledge.


    2. You seem to not understand how words and definitions are made. Evil is a word that is given it's definition by society. Not by God, not by an authority, but by society as a whole. Ask yourself this: What is twerking? Well anyone nowadays knows what it is(dat booty clap). But 10+ years ago it would have an entirely different definition. Society defines what words mean and who or what they apply to. God and religion may be an influence at times, but they are not root cause nor the authority for any given term outside of their own religious terms.(christ, sabath, etc.).
    -This is just to prove that definition of evil is done by society, your ethics shit is further down.
    ----------------------------------

    Oh this is just silly, here we go!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by maddoggy00 View Post


    If you do believe in a god, then you cannot claim he(/she/whatever) is evil. To admit there is a god, then you also admit they have some form of higher power, otherwise they wouldn't be a god. If they are a higher power, then to claim to understand what is categorized as evil is to understand their history, and consequentially probably the entire history of the world's life, and thought process to the same extent they do. I don't know of any religion that claims humans can think on the same plane as a god or contain the same knowledge as one; maybe there is, but it isn't one of the current main-stream ones. Therefore, you do not understand what is evil, because that is determined by an authority you do not understand. You might not like what's happening, but you cannot call it evil. Many religions describe "bad things" as either god's way of teaching us a lesson, or it is just a string of events due to free will, which is what <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->
    @<a href="http://www.mpgh.net/forummber.php?u=319650" target="_blank">Rvn</a>
    <!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention --> touched on.

    1. Well you can claim that actually. What do you call people who worship Satan as their god? "atheist"? Also, you just ingored half the known gods of mankind. What about Hades? What about Zeus? Fenrir? Loki? I mean shit, there is a ton of gods who fit the definition/category of evil for a reason.

    2. Well unfortunately the "you can't understand god" excuse is just that, an excuse. It's an apologist argument to try and dismiss all the shit that happened(usually in the bible/quran) and write it off as "because god works in mysterious ways!".

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now here is the conclusion.




    Ethics is not based on god. You wanna argue that it is, go ahead. Just note that half the things in the bible, quran, or any religious book/teaching contradict modern ethics and only come off as modern-mankind being superior to an omniscient god.

    But hey, then there is the simple fact that we aren't talking about all religions, but ONE religion. ONE belief. The ethics shown in whatever religion you believe(probably christianity given by the response and how cliche it is), don't match up to the ethics to other religions.

    You could just play your cards though. I'd love to show you how fucked up your god who "makes ethics" is.




    I think you need to realize there is a point where you draw the line. I'd say murder of innocents would be a decent place, but hey *shrugs* maybe the more "morally inclined" religious people see that as ok.
    Last edited by Empire; 02-22-2014 at 11:51 PM.


  6. #81
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    Thought this was relevant.


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  8. #82
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    So yea...

    Hail Satan
    Quote Originally Posted by Extravagant View Post
    The problem is that we're people. People are shitty beings, you just gotta keep that in mind.
    "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." - Richard Dawkins
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Troll nomination. Allah and Muhammad for 1400 years of bullshit.

  9. #83
    Empire's Avatar
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    Well....satan is an entirely different subject altogether. It's of course how the abrahamic religions get their "ethics" in a way, but it's so astoundingly silly it doesn't make much sense to put him in on an already misunderstood topic.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Well....satan is an entirely different subject altogether. It's of course how the abrahamic religions get their "ethics" in a way, but it's so astoundingly silly it doesn't make much sense to put him in on an already misunderstood topic.
    Make it so complicated that people just give up talking about it lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Extravagant View Post
    The problem is that we're people. People are shitty beings, you just gotta keep that in mind.
    "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." - Richard Dawkins
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Troll nomination. Allah and Muhammad for 1400 years of bullshit.

  11. #85
    Ferris Bueller's Avatar
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    LOL this thread started so many off-topic discussions it's not even funny xD.

    People talkin about satan and evil and shit.

    Guys the original question was: How can you believe in a god when there's so much evil and corruption in the world?

    We talkin about religions in general.

    Not a specific figure or a certain set of morals.

    Anyways i say we close the discussion here. 6 pages of off topic discussions is enough

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Johnson View Post
    LOL this thread started so many off-topic discussions it's not even funny xD.

    People talkin about satan and evil and shit.

    Guys the original question was: How can you believe in a god when there's so much evil and corruption in the world?

    We talkin about religions in general.

    Not a specific figure or a certain set of morals.

    Anyways i say we close the discussion here. 6 pages of off topic discussions is enough
    It's how religious ignore the problems though.

    Blame satan or w/e evil figure.


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    How Can Mirrors Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real

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  15. #88
    Auxilium's Avatar
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    Because they believe God works in strange ways.

    I'm not to say who's right and wrong, nor will I pass judgements on those who wish to believe what they choose.

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    I think it's not about believe, it's about having hopes and a point to work to

  17. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by TintenKilla View Post
    I think it's not about believe, it's about having hopes and a point to work to
    Yes but you don't need a religion for that....


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