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  1. #1
    Empire's Avatar
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    [Sin]: The Jesus Paradox [3/4]

    Ok so here is the thread that I'm kind of worried about making. It's hard to create without being biased, and it's hard to express to anyone who is a christian because of how modern society has romanticized Jesus.

    Alright, I'm going to do my best.
    -----------------------------------------------
    Jesus presents a paradox within the bible.
    1."If the system works like this because of Jesus, what about before Jesus?".
    2."How does Jesus' death forgive/atone sins".
    -------------------------------------------------
    But first
    Jesus did three major things to the Jewish religion, and to be fair, that's about all he did in terms of worldly impact.

    1. He changed the system from blood sacrifices to believing him him for sin redemption.
    2. He changed the jewish religion to be open for everyone. (before it was racially only allowed to the jewish people and their descendants).
    3. He added certain rituals and the "holy spirit" to the lore.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Now back to the paradox

    1. The system within the bible is never clear and was updated through the generations of the Jewish lineage. This means that many of the people who followed the religion to the best of their known ability, still went to hell. That even the original creations of god (Adam and Eve) most likely went to hell as they did or could not redeem their sins due to lack of knowledge. Also those who could not afford to use sacrifices also would go to hell.
    -Of course, anyone who did not or could not of known about the Jewish god and followed the religion to final system went to hell.


    2. Christians believe that because Jesus(who was a mortal part of god) died, that he atones for the sins of all mankind forever. The paradox is that sin was the act of going against god and disobeying god.
    ===========================================
    Personal thoughts on the "sacrifice" of Jesus.: This is one of the rather confusing parts of the bible. Jesus didn't technically "sacrifice" himself at all, especially not in the terms of sacrifice from the Old Testament. He was simply unjustly murdered by the Roman Guard, though romanticized because he chose to accept it over a longer period of time.

    There is also the problem of Jesus being God in the aspect of the Trinity according to christians. According the Christianity Jesus was simply a part of god that came in mortal form, died, and rejoined with God. There was no actual sacrifice, and nothing was lost, everything was gained.


    It seems as though the sacrifice works in the way of "pride" and "origin" more than anything else.(a reoccurring theme in the bible).

    Because Jesus originated from god, his death(in whatever way) would somehow give forgiveness through belief because god would set aside his pride to die a mortal's "death".
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For the simplest version I can think of to describe this topic/thread:

    God had a piece of him come down in mortal/human form, died, and somehow that replaces the blood-sacrifice that was needed to make up for a person disobeying god in the first place.
    -So god came, lived ~40 years, and now if you believe him he forgives you.

    Oh and also god no longer has a "chosen people", all that stuff with the Jews isn't relevant any more because... reasons?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Empire; 05-23-2014 at 02:41 AM.


  2. #2
    razer14's Avatar
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    You bring up some very deep and complicated issues, many of which I don't believe I can adequately address in one sitting. I'll start with your #1 under "paradox." The same law applies after Jesus as before Jesus. Before Jesus was on Earth, Jews had to sacrifice animals and burnt offerings as atonement for their sins. So Adam and Eve (if they existed) would have been taught the law by God and would know atone for their sins in accordance to his law, and that would be how they are in heaven. As for after Jesus, He was the "perfect offering" that atoned for all sins for everyone who believes His death covers their sins.

  3. #3
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razer14 View Post
    You bring up some very deep and complicated issues, many of which I don't believe I can adequately address in one sitting. I'll start with your #1 under "paradox." The same law applies after Jesus as before Jesus. Before Jesus was on Earth, Jews had to sacrifice animals and burnt offerings as atonement for their sins. So Adam and Eve (if they existed) would have been taught the law by God and would know atone for their sins in accordance to his law, and that would be how they are in heaven. As for after Jesus, He was the "perfect offering" that atoned for all sins for everyone who believes His death covers their sins.
    Ok there is three things wrong here.
    1. There is no indication that god taught people, even his chosen people. Assuming that would be idiocy, mostly because that would erase the need for other commandments if god could manually teach everyone. In fact, if god would have taught everyone then he'd be undeniable in his existence to this day. But he didn't or he can't, but he sure as hell punished those (according to the bible) for breaking his commandments.

    2. Animal sacrifice has no logic or reason behind it. I'd add more but that's really all there is to it.

    3. But jesus didn't even go to hell. I mean what is 40 years with only 1 and a half of mediocre suffering compared to eternal torture, the life of a slave, or any number of atrocities mankind has done to themselves.
    -Just saying, jesus lived a good life, died through torture, and that's representive of sacrifice? Holy fuck is that insulting to the human race.


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