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  1. #1
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    Modern Society Needs God, Needs Religion

    Because I know you all just love to read a wall of text

    God exists. Surely, from a logical point of view, you can ascertain the existence of God. It is impossible to prove the non-existence of God. It is possible, however, to make a judgment or an observation to the probability of God's existence. Man can observe the world and all of its complexities, from plant life to animal life to human life, and make a rational judgment that God exists. Nothing as complex as the world and it's natural network could happen by chance. The denial of this is ludicrous and any claim otherwise is the byproduct of a child's fantasies. No computer has ever come as a byproduct of chance. It has come from hard work and an intelligent design. Even something as simple as a calculator could not happen by chance. It is something that must be mathematically designed. Insomuch, the world with all of its mathematical nature could not possibly happen by chance but only by design. Humans at their current level of knowledge could never make an entire world such as the earth much less an entire galaxy or universe. Even if there was a Big Bang, man must agree that there was a first cause of it and a noncontingent being that made the matter that banged and intelligently designed it! Thus a higher being must exist and that is God.

    Today I see in modern society that man is deluded into thinking that either God is not real or that they do not need Him. Throughout the course of history God has always been there for man but countless times man has left Him behind. In making man in his image and likeness, God invited man to have a covenantal relationship with Him. That is a free, total, and faithful giving of oneself to the other and sharing the fruit that the relationship bears, much as a man and women give of themselves freely, totally, and faithfully to each other and produce the fruits of marriage. Religion, organized or not, is that relationship between man and his Creator, God.



    Religion gives man a reason to live. Man longs for something in life; he seeks something to find fulfillment in this world. “Who am I? Where have I come from and where am I going? Why is there evil? What is there after this life?” (Pope John Paul II, Fides Et Ratio 1). These 5 questions that have been written on every man’s heart from the beginning of time are not only found in the Old Testament writings but also found in works from Confucius, Plato, Aristotle, Buddha, and others. When Jesus Christ came in history, he gave us concrete answers to these questions and established His Church to continue to teach them to man and to help man fulfill his relationship with God. By faith, man can come to understand that God exists and that we, created for God and by God, are ultimately called back to Him in the end. This gives us hope for something more in this life and after it.

    With that hope we have a focused direction, a reason to live. Take for instance St. Josephine Bakhita, an African slave who had lost all hope as she lived a life of pain and torture at the hands of her many masters made evident by the 144 scars on her body. This plightful women came to know her one true Master, her Lord above all lords, who actually loved her and by finding him she found hope and proclaimed “I am definitively loved and whatever happens to me—I am awaited by this Love. And so my life is good.” (Pope Benedict XVI, Spe Salvi 3). Armed with this hope she was then driven, not to simply convert people but to help set them free from slavery. Thus:“The one who has hope lives differently; the one who hopes has been granted the gift of a new life.” (Pope Benedict XVI, Spe Salvi 3). St. Maximilian Kolbe was a priest in Auschwitz. When 1 prisoner escaped, 10 would be starved to death. St. Maximilian offered to take the place of one of them who had a wife and children. Not only did he save a mans life, he offered hope to the starving prisoners who surprised the guards by their singing of joyful hymns up to their death. He did not desire death but accepted it and in the end he had to be killed by lethal injection because starvation would not kill him.



    Not only does religion give man a reason to live, it also builds society. In society, from as early as the middle ages and in fact from as early as the start of civilization, organized religions have been the architects and builders of private and public framework. Religion, by its nature, is communal and gives man that capacity, that willingness, to sacrifice self for the greater good. Families are the building blocks of society. Within the family is the Father who gives of self to protect and provide for his wife and children and the mother who gives of self to care and comfort her husband and children. The results of this self sacrifice give society a strong foundation. Without religion man tends to take the path least resistance and resort to self gratification. Society then crumbles as broken homes are made by abusive husbands and fathers who leave their wives and children and mothers who abandon and abort their children. Those who reject religion, in their ignorance, will go so far as to say that in the name of humanity and decency parents should have the right to murder their children through abortion.

    There have been many individuals, tireless in their self sacrifice, who against all odds have done extraordinary feats within and for the community. The original Red Cross was started by St. Camillus de Lellis, a Catholic priest who disregarded self when taking care of victims of the plague. St. Elizabeth Ann Seton started the first free schools in the United States. St. Katharine Drexel also started many schools so that today ¼ of all schools in the United States are parochial. Mother Teresa started the Missionaries of Charity that run many schools as well. They also run hospitals and other charities that pick up the people left for dead by the government and tend to their needs. All of these people and more have sacrificed themselves, in the name of God, for the greater good.

    Many scientific discoveries were made by monks who found them in the pursuit of furthering their knowledge of God and understanding of the world. Bishop Nicole Oresme wrote many influential works on cosmology, astrology, mathematics, astronomy, and physics. Fr. Jean Buridan made major steps toward the fundamental concept of inertia. Roger Bacon, a friar of the franciscan order, developed the Scientific Method which we still use today. These men were driven by faith seeking understanding rather than dismissing that which they could not see. Religion tells us that there are many things in creation that man has never seen and with faith we continue to search for them.

    Religion also teaches us how to abide by the moral code written on every mans heart by his creator. Every man should know that it would be wrong to kill another but Jesus Christ teaches us through His Church that we should take it one step further when he said “But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father” (Matthew 5:44-45, The New American Bible). He then gave us a perfect example of forgiveness by His supreme act of nonviolence in His death on the cross. This was emulated by Pope John Paul II when he completely forgave the man who had shot him. Love conquers all evil.



    Not only does religion give man a reason to live and build society, it also makes man happy by setting him free. Man’s natural desires to eat, drink, and procreate when placed under control of the intellect and free will, give man control over his passions, which left unchecked create disorder and chaos. God offers man, through His Church, that control over man's natural appetites.

    Many people think of religion as a constrainment; something that prevents them from doing what they want to do because of all the rules. Man might want to live life free of rules but these commandments have been made in order to protect him. Without rules or when people break rules, people get hurt. When a mother tells her child to stay out of the road, she is making a rule to protect her child from the dangers of the street. The commandments of God can be thought of as a safety net on a trampoline. When jumping on a trampoline, a safety net provides the security of jumping free from worries. No longer must you temper yourself in your aerobics. You can now do a triple backflip without the fear of falling off. The precepts of His Church can really be thought of a railing on a high mountain’s edge. With railings you can take a hike with your kids and dog on a high mountain’s edge without the fear of falling off. Following a greater wisdom than their own, Gods faithful people adhered to his laws and were protected from disease and infection by circumcising their newborn sons on the eighth day. It was only recently that science has revealed the wisdom in this as it is on the eighth day that the blood coagulates the most. While this relationship with God has rules, it sets man free. With rules man becomes happier because he is safe and set free.



    Modern society needs God and religion because it gives man a reason to live, it builds society and it also makes man happy by setting him free. It is undeniable that modern society, denying the evidence for God in creation, has become just like Rome where “Males did shameful things with males...They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed...full of envy, murder...treachery, and spite. They are gossips...and they hate God. They are...haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.” (Romans 1 27-32, The New American Bible). Rome because of its evil crumbled and so too will we. If only in this modern society man were to turn his eyes back to God, imagine what man could accomplish with His help. God is there, waiting and wanting for exactly that. He desires to show His love and goodness to His creations, to help them in their endeavors, and to expose them to His glory. Unless man embraces this relationship with his Creator he will never bear the fruits that it offers.

  2. #2
    ThisIsNotRance's Avatar
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    No, you cannot verify the existence of God nor disprove it. To say either side is undoubtedly true is arrogance. A long time ago people thought the weather was controlled by Gods yet that has been disproven through logic, mostly everyone then thought "There's no way humans could control that, it must be a higher being... a god!" but we can both agree that's ridiculous right? Humanity is constantly evolving. God is not needed in modern society.

    I don't have time to reply to the rest, I'll do it later. Just gonna leave this here

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisIsNotRance View Post
    No, you cannot verify the existence of God nor disprove it. To say either side is undoubtedly true is arrogance. A long time ago people thought the weather was controlled by Gods yet that has been disproven through logic, mostly everyone then thought "There's no way humans could control that, it must be a higher being... a god!" but we can both agree that's ridiculous right? Humanity is constantly evolving. God is not needed in modern society.

    I don't have time to reply to the rest, I'll do it later. Just gonna leave this here
    "It is impossible to prove the non-existence of God. It is possible, however, to make a judgment or an observation to the probability of God's existence."

    Call it God, aliens, or whatever. There must be some sort of higher being, no? How else could we exist? And don't say by chance, thats just silly


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    1.God exist using: Argument from ignorance



    2. That's odd, mainly because god doesn't actively DO anything. So of course society "doesn't need him", he doesn't actually do anything.

    3. Religion as a "reason to live" is able to be replaced by anything.

    4. Religion does not build a modern society.

    5. Religious moral code is atrocious.

    6. You can do everything you listed without religion. Entire thread invalid.


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    1.God exist using: Argument from ignorance



    2. That's odd, mainly because god doesn't actively DO anything. So of course society "doesn't need him", he doesn't actually do anything.

    3. Religion as a "reason to live" is able to be replaced by anything.

    4. Religion does not build a modern society.

    5. Religious moral code is atrocious.

    6. You can do everything you listed without religion. Entire thread invalid.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    3. Religion as a "reason to live" is able to be replaced by anything.
    Totally agree with that part. It can be replaced by anything. Your reason to live can be for money, love, happiness, to help other, so on and so forth

  10. #7
    Necc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    1.God exist using: Argument from ignorance



    2. That's odd, mainly because god doesn't actively DO anything. So of course society "doesn't need him", he doesn't actually do anything.

    3. Religion as a "reason to live" is able to be replaced by anything.

    4. Religion does not build a modern society.

    5. Religious moral code is atrocious.

    6. You can do everything you listed without religion. Entire thread invalid.
    Grr, MPGH is being slow. (Which is why I am assuming the double post:P)

    1. You CAN say that because something is that there is a reason/cause for it. You CAN'T say that because something is there is no reason/cause for it.
    For instance, I can't say that since there is grass there is no God, because obviously since there is grass God could not possible exist. I can say, however, that since there is a God that there is grass. Because grass comes from God. And like I said, you don't have to agree that it is God, but you must agree that there is something that caused it. What came first the chicken or the egg? Well, its a paradox so the easiest conclusion is that there must be something that came before the chicken and the egg; God. (Or whatever you want to call it)

    2. Thats your opinion. The religious man would claim the complete opposite. ie Miracles.

    3. True, but is it? The religious man as shown in my examples were given a reason to live because of their faith and religion.

    4. It built up society in that past. Without religion (religion, not God) we wouldn't be where we are now.

    5. Give some examples. I'm happy with my moral code

    6. Not true. Without religion and the moral code that my religion gives me (plus the moral code that God made in mankinds hearts) murder and the like would be way more rampant. I think I made mention of that in my last paragraph. Also, this thread isn't pointless. Your few silly sentences are a poor counter to a 5 page paper. C'mon, I thought you would do better than that! (I also thought you would be the only one to respond, lol)

  11. #8
    Aborted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necc View Post
    It built up society in that past. Without religion (religion, not God) we wouldn't be where we are now.
    You're right, we'd be hundreds of technological years in the future.
    When the earth is changed into a humid dungeon,
    In which Hope like a bat
    Goes beating the walls with her timid wings
    And knocking her head against the rotten ceiling;
    When the rain stretching out its endless train
    Imitates the bars of a vast prison
    And a silent horde of loathsome spiders
    Comes to spin their webs in the depths of our brains,
    All at once the bells leap with rage
    And hurl a frightful roar at heaven,
    Even as wandering spirits with no country
    Burst into a stubborn, whimpering cry.
    — And without drums or music, long hearses
    Pass by slowly in my soul; Hope, vanquished,
    Weeps, and atrocious, despotic Anguish
    On my bowed skull plants her black flag.

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  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necc View Post
    Grr, MPGH is being slow. (Which is why I am assuming the double post:P)

    1. You CAN say that because something is that there is a reason/cause for it. You CAN'T say that because something is there is no reason/cause for it.
    For instance, I can't say that since there is grass there is no God, because obviously since there is grass God could not possible exist. I can say, however, that since there is a God that there is grass. Because grass comes from God. And like I said, you don't have to agree that it is God, but you must agree that there is something that caused it. What came first the chicken or the egg? Well, its a paradox so the easiest conclusion is that there must be something that came before the chicken and the egg; God. (Or whatever you want to call it)

    2. Thats your opinion. The religious man would claim the complete opposite. ie Miracles.

    3. True, but is it? The religious man as shown in my examples were given a reason to live because of their faith and religion.

    4. It built up society in that past. Without religion (religion, not God) we wouldn't be where we are now.

    5. Give some examples. I'm happy with my moral code

    6. Not true. Without religion and the moral code that my religion gives me (plus the moral code that God made in mankinds hearts) murder and the like would be way more rampant. I think I made mention of that in my last paragraph. Also, this thread isn't pointless. Your few silly sentences are a poor counter to a 5 page paper. C'mon, I thought you would do better than that! (I also thought you would be the only one to respond, lol)
    1. Oh sorry, forgot to add "god of the gaps">(though its actually both)
    "We don't know = god did it".

    2. He can claim miracles, doesn't mean he's telling the truth. You know, reality vs fiction. If you can prove a miracle, go ahead, till then my opinion is more valid than the one against it.

    3. As if they couldn't obtain a reason to live outside of religion? How stupid can you get man. Even the religious don't have religion as the main reason they keep on living. Sheesh.

    4. No, we would be much farther ahead, I apologize.

    5. How about slavery, murder, and genocide? I know the abrahamic got all three wrong, among other things. Even basic equality doesn't exist.

    6. How are you this fucking stupid? If you need someone to tell you to not murder or else you get punished, then you are basically a fucking retard.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aborted View Post

    You're right, we'd be hundreds of technological years in the future.
    Think of all the millions of people who wouldn't have died! We could have had 10 einsteins a thousand years ago!

    WE COULD BE RIDING SPACE BEARS RIGHT NOW! FUCK!


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  15. #10
    Aborted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Think of all the millions of people who wouldn't have died! We could have had 10 einsteins a thousand years ago!
    And also all the knowledge, science, and thinkers that wouldn't have been repressed by religious institutions.
    *Insert Galileo here*
    Last edited by Aborted; 07-22-2014 at 06:43 PM.
    When the earth is changed into a humid dungeon,
    In which Hope like a bat
    Goes beating the walls with her timid wings
    And knocking her head against the rotten ceiling;
    When the rain stretching out its endless train
    Imitates the bars of a vast prison
    And a silent horde of loathsome spiders
    Comes to spin their webs in the depths of our brains,
    All at once the bells leap with rage
    And hurl a frightful roar at heaven,
    Even as wandering spirits with no country
    Burst into a stubborn, whimpering cry.
    — And without drums or music, long hearses
    Pass by slowly in my soul; Hope, vanquished,
    Weeps, and atrocious, despotic Anguish
    On my bowed skull plants her black flag.

  16. #11
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aborted View Post

    And also all the knowledge, science, and thinkers that wouldn't have been repressed by religious institutions.
    *Insert Galileo here*
    It's not just Galileo or those few noted brilliant minds, it's the population's intelligence and critical thinking skills.

    Slavery could have been banned a thousand years earlier, we could have avoided world wars, we could have developed cures for diseases, it's just astounding the amount of scientific and humanitarian benefit the world could have had.

    Once you stop at a question and just use ignorance as the answer("god did it") then you stop progress.
    Once you stop questioning morality and just accept a dated set of views, then you stop trying to make the world a better place.


    Honestly modern society doesn't even need religion. Everything it provides you can find a better alternative for.
    --------------

    Pro tip: Ask questions.

    -Next time you think god is needed for society, ask yourself what he's actual doing in society.
    Then ask yourself if you can prove he's doing those things by any reasonable means. (if you can't then it's UNFALSIFIABILITY, a fallacy).
    Then ask yourself if he could do something better(takes a bit of imagination.)
    Then ask yourself why he doesn't show himself anymore.
    Then ask yourself why none of the morality is explained and just written in law.
    Then ask yourself why sooo many things are left out and so many things have overly harsh punishment.
    Then ask yourself why God committed genocide several times.
    Then ask yourself why God commanded genocide several times.
    Then ask yourself why none of bible/quran/torah is scientifically accurate.


    Really modern religion is just based upon an infantile amount of ignorance and unwilling to question because ignorance is viewed highly in the religious scene.


    I'm just waiting till christianity fully accepts homosexuality and I get to live through another church-dogma-change like the civil rights movement had with the church.


  17. #12
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    Oh boy. Its late and I have work in the morning, but I thought I'd just drop this.

    Do you even know about Galileo? Copernicus? How about you go do some research first...

    Also "Bishop Nicole Oresme wrote many influential works on cosmology, astrology, mathematics, astronomy, and physics. Fr. Jean Buridan made major steps toward the fundamental concept of inertia. Roger Bacon, a friar of the franciscan order, developed the Scientific Method which we still use today."

    Do you even know who these people are? Do you realize that these are few out of many? Just do a google search and you can lean that much.

    Truly, the internet is the
    atheists church.

    In regards to "
    slavery, murder, and genocide" WTF about abortion and the Nazis? Did you forget that?
    Last edited by Necc; 07-23-2014 at 12:42 AM.

  18. #13
    ThisIsNotRance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necc View Post
    Oh boy. Its late and I have work in the morning, but I thought I'd just drop this.

    Do you even know about Galileo? Copernicus? How about you go do some research first...

    Also "Bishop Nicole Oresme wrote many influential works on cosmology, astrology, mathematics, astronomy, and physics. Fr. Jean Buridan made major steps toward the fundamental concept of inertia. Roger Bacon, a friar of the franciscan order, developed the Scientific Method which we still use today."

    Do you even know who these people are? Do you realize that these are few out of many? Just do a google search and you can lean that much.

    Truly, the internet is the
    atheists church.

    In regards to "
    slavery, murder, and genocide" WTF about abortion and the Nazis? Did you forget that?

    If an individual's belief went against what was said in the bible, such as Galileo believing in heliocentrism while the bible states differently then it's blasphemy and is inaccurate. Why don't YOU do some research? No, the internet is a place of true free speech.

    That last statement has to be a troll... no you've probably been trolling the entire time.

  19. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necc View Post
    Oh boy. Its late and I have work in the morning, but I thought I'd just drop this.

    Do you even know about Galileo? Copernicus? How about you go do some research first...

    Also "Bishop Nicole Oresme wrote many influential works on cosmology, astrology, mathematics, astronomy, and physics. Fr. Jean Buridan made major steps toward the fundamental concept of inertia. Roger Bacon, a friar of the franciscan order, developed the Scientific Method which we still use today."

    Do you even know who these people are? Do you realize that these are few out of many? Just do a google search and you can lean that much.

    Truly, the internet is the
    atheists church.

    In regards to "
    slavery, murder, and genocide" WTF about abortion and the Nazis? Did you forget that?
    Oh so it's just a troll? Lame. You should try harder and not bring up red-herrings like nazi's/abortion just to distract.
    ======================

    Also a lot of theist do this a lot:

    The argument from authority fallacy.

    Hey this scientist followed my religion so my religion is good/true.


    It's a really stupid argument, but you'll see it used a lot.


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    religion: the only bedtime story that makes people want to kill others because of disbelieve

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