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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    Or more specifically, you claim to know you can't know anything, i.e you believe we will never find out the answers to the origin of the universe, whether there is a god etc. and so you believe in nothing
    If you want to keep building up a strawman, go ahead. Nobody gives a shit kid.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    If you want to keep building up a strawman, go ahead. Nobody gives a shit kid.
    I was just refining your definition, which to most people would be considered helpful

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    I was just refining your definition, which to most people would be considered helpful
    No you were just posting your own for the sake of tearing down some imaginary argument.

    Agnostic has already been defined clearly 4-5 times in this thread yet you insist that your own personal definition be used for the sole purpose of mislabeling people.


    Edit: I'd say you were "redefining" my definition, as it is clearly not what I posted.
    Last edited by Empire; 01-01-2016 at 04:07 PM.


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    No you were just posting your own for the sake of tearing down some imaginary argument.

    Agnostic has already been defined clearly 4-5 times in this thread yet you insist that your own personal definition be used for the sole purpose of mislabeling people.


    Edit: I'd say you were "redefining" my definition, as it is clearly not what I posted.
    It is not my intention to "mislabel" people, apologies if that is the case. You initially had the definition of agnosticism wrong, I helped correct it. You then still had the core idea slightly wrong but mostly right, so I very carefully said "Or more specifically", implying I was refining your definition. If you get upset because you can't handle an argument then what are you doing here...

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    It is not my intention to "mislabel" people, apologies if that is the case. You initially had the definition of agnosticism wrong,
    Enough with the bullshit. You are intentionally mislabeling people because you intentionally disregard not only the most common definition of the word, but what they themselves are defining it as.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic
    Simple Definition of agnostic

    : a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not
    : a person who does not believe or is unsure of something


    When people refer to agnostic, they refer to simply: The admission that they do not know.


    You keep defining it as relating to god, which it's not. Agnostic is simply a position of knowledge claims.


    You either claim to know or you don't.
    You're either gnostic or agnostic.


    Defining it as though every use of the word "agnostic" is simply the denial of it being possible to know is wrong from both the dictionary and common use.



    That's it.
    Last edited by Empire; 01-01-2016 at 04:30 PM.


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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    Enough with the bullshit. You are intentionally mislabeling people because you intentionally disregard not only the most common definition of the word, but what they themselves are defining it as.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic
    Simple Definition of agnostic

    : a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not
    : a person who does not believe or is unsure of something


    When people refer to agnostic, they refer to simply: The admission that they do not know.


    You keep defining it as relating to god, which it's not. Agnostic is simply a position of knowledge claims.


    You either claim to know or you don't.
    You're either gnostic or agnostic.


    Defining it as though every use of the word "agnostic" is simply the denial of it being possible to know is wrong from both the dictionary and common use.



    That's it.
    1) I have never related it to god, you did, hence I had to correct you on that front.
    2) The more common, widely accepted definition for agnosticism is that you fully believe you cannot know anything, and therefore refrain from committing to any one belief, be it through a god or through atheism.

    if you google "what is an agnostic"

    you get

    "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God."

    It's not whether the person CAN prove it or disprove it, they BELIEVE they can't, and so avoid all forms of belief.

    "I am agnostic about santa claus, as it is not possible to know if he exists or not." i.e the denial of possibility to know

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    1) I have never related it to god, you did, hence I had to correct you on that front.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    Being agnostic in my opinion is slightly ignorant, as the facts are there to be explored. I do however think we all have to be agnostic in a way, as we can never, for example, disprove the existence of god
    So that's me catching you red-handed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    2) The more common, widely accepted definition for agnosticism is that you fully believe you cannot know anything, and therefore refrain from committing to any one belief, be it through a god or through atheism.
    1. Very few people believe "they cannot know anything" and therefore refrain from committing to a single belief.
    2. There are more agnostic atheist and theist than there are pure agnostics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    if you google "what is an agnostic" you get:
    Irrelevant. You are appealing to the secondary/tertiary definitions of agnosticism in order to make a straw-man argument.

    Agnostic in it's base form means "to not know". That's it.
    Are you an agnostic?

    IF so then fine, you don't believe you can know. Good for you, but not everyone defines themselves as that.


    IF not then you are simply trying to force a definition onto people in order to label them as "ignorant" as I have shown with your first quote here.



    So I think that's about it. You're done here.
    Last edited by Empire; 01-01-2016 at 04:57 PM.


  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    So that's me catching you red-handed.
    No, you simply took 2 out of context points. I used god as an example for agnosticism, you integrated it into your definition.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    1. Very few people believe "they cannot know anything" and therefore refrain from committing to a single belief.
    Thanks for literally backing up my point

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    2. There are more agnostic atheist and theist than there are pure agnostics.
    I agree, where atheism is the lack in belief in god, and an agnostic atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god, but believes there is no way of knowing right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    You are appealing to the secondary/tertiary
    Is there an actual majority accepted definition? No, so claiming my definition is appealing to the secondary/tertiary definition is "wrong"? What makes your definition so right? Either way I was always told it was the belief in not being able to know anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Agnostic in it's base for means "to not know". That's it.
    I would argue that it's more specific than that, and that it's more oriented towards the beliefs in religion, atheism etc. I can't find a definition where it states that, but I would imagine that's what it means in latin



    If you wanna continue, add my skype, kind of spamming this section XD

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    I agree, where atheism is the lack in belief in god, and an agnostic atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god, but believes there is no way of knowing right?
    Agnostic = to not know
    Atheist = to not believe.


    An agnostic atheist is one who does know if theism is correct nor believes in theism.




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  12. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Agnostic = to not know
    Atheist = to not believe.


    An agnostic atheist is one who does know if theism is correct nor believes in theism.


    that's the most useful thing i've seen in a long time

  13. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    No, you simply took 2 out of context points. I used god as an example for agnosticism, you integrated it into your definition.
    I did? in what way were they out of context?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    Either way I was always told it was the belief in not being able to know anything.

    You were always told.......



    Great so I'm arguing with the fucking water-boy about whether or not his mother was right in telling him what words mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    Is there an actual majority accepted definition? No, so claiming my definition is appealing to the secondary/tertiary definition is "wrong"? What makes your definition so right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    2) The more common, widely accepted definition for agnosticism is that....
    You tell me buddy. You seem to simply be arguing with yourself and trying to increase the number of contradictions you can make.




    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    I would argue that it's more specific than that, and that it's more oriented towards the beliefs in religion
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    I used god as an example for agnosticism, you integrated it into your definition.

    Are we on 5 direct contradictions yet or are we past that?


  14. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    I did? in what way were they out of context?




    You were always told.......



    Great so I'm arguing with the fucking water-boy about whether or not his mother was right in telling him what words mean.





    You tell me buddy. You seem to simply be arguing with yourself and trying to increase the number of contradictions you can make.








    Are we on 5 direct contradictions yet or are we past that?
    skype if you want me to argue against all those points, and telling you why none of those are contradictions \o/

  15. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    skype if you want me to argue against all those points, and telling you why none of those are contradictions \o/
    No thanks. I've already said all that can be said and you've not come up with any counters so....meh.


  16. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    No thanks. I've already said all that can be said and you've not come up with any counters so....meh.
    As i've said, I can, simply add me on skype ^_^

  17. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldex View Post
    As i've said, I can, simply add me on skype ^_^
    Or instead of being so averse to potentially losing you can just post it on here, since he already declined.

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