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  1. #16
    Confluency's Avatar
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    I think you're a bit too high brother.

  2. #17
    d1spenser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post

    ...To the experiencer, what someone else would call delusion IS reality. Consciousness is the only reality. We are incapable of seeing other than the contents of our own consciousness... It is only what you focus on that you make real. Life is a delusion that you control...
    That is quite an outdated point of view, the roots of which come from the days of german classic philosophy. You baiscly described Immanuel Kant's approach to the question of what is primary: matter or consciousness. Idealist philosophers claim that consciousness was first than came matter and this eventually leads them to something ridiculous like thinking that their entire reality is fake and there is no way to understand it.

    That is true that our five senses do not give us 100% true information about the world we live in. However that doesn't mean that everything we see is a lie. If everything was a delusion and all the information about the outside world was wrong then living organisms simply wouldn't be able to adapt, survive and evolve, because for that you need information about what's going on around you. If your eyes would give you completely wrong picture then you wouldn't notice a car coming at you and wouldn't step away. You may keep thinking that car is imaginary and it is not there, but that absolutely doesn't change the fact that it's coming at you and objective reality (in a form of car) is about to hit you hard. Sure, your eyes can't see in ultraviolet or infrared light, thus limiting you perception of the world, but that tiny spectrum that we use is enough to tell us that there is danger approaching.

    Consciousness is not a reality, it merely mirrors objective reality. Sure, everyone has their own perception, but the real world out there doesn't care about that. You can imagine whatever you want, live in a world of delusion, but that won't change fundamental laws of physics that are quite real. And instead of deluding yourself why not study the world as it is?
    Last edited by d1spenser; 05-03-2015 at 06:19 PM.

  3. #18
    .Herbs.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d1spenser View Post
    Consciousness is not a reality, it merely mirrors objective reality. Sure, everyone has their own perception, but the real world out there doesn't care about that. You can imagine whatever you want, live in a world of delusion, but that won't change fundamental laws of physics that are quite real. And instead of deluding yourself why not study the world as it is?
    Studying the world "as it is" may be less appealing to some when they can shape their inner world as they would prefer it to be. I'm not sure there can be just one objective reality for us because we all have different beliefs about the manifestations we encounter, and those beliefs play an extremely large part in what we think is objective reality. We all live in our own internal Universes, but we have such strong wills and beliefs that the external Universe cannot help but bend to our feelings.

    This is how, by assuming the feeling of already having or being whatever you want in a diligent fashion, you disallow objective reality's arguments to affect you, and whatever you desire finds a way to manifest.

    Perhaps some would take this to a silly extreme and find a way to completely and utterly believe that an oncoming car about to hit them doesn't actually exist. To bystanders it would seem like the car hit them, but to the deluded person reality would be fundamentally different. Their reality remains their own despite anything or anyone else, and in this situation their disbelief in the car just might save their life somehow. Such is the power of the mind.
    You do not have to argue for your limitations. If you are only conscious of the world as you want it to be, then it must be that way for you.

    Physics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore everything we imagine already exists. It is up to us how we will interpret and use the energy around us to attract those imagined things into our three dimensional experience. Consistently feeling like we already have what we desire seems like a great way to go about doing that.

    Why not give it a shot? Imagine you are already what you want to be. Walk in that assumption, and it will harden into fact. Have brazen impudence regarding anything else. You are already doing it, but now you can be aware and take control of the process. Imagining these things is just another way to pray.

    "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." Mark 11:24

  4. #19
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    Invention would not be possible without imagination. I am basing my assumption that Athiests are more depressed on the fact that they limit themselves by their own beliefs to what is possible, and often feel the need to degrade others or otherwise state that they are somehow more superior than those who do not share their viewpoints.
    This is stupidity. The concept of god is not hard to grasp. That's a pure ad-hominem based on anecdotal evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    To the experiencer, what someone else would call delusion IS reality. Consciousness is the only reality. We are incapable of seeing other than the contents of our own consciousness. By this logic you can say that people hate others for the evil that they keep inside themselves. It is only what you focus on that you make real. Life is a delusion that you control.
    A delusion is a belief or set of ideas not set in objective reality. Life is not a delusion you control, stop trying to be smart when you're obviously not.

    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    If not beliving in God or a higher power makes you feel good then your belief serves a logical purpose. The fact that you are able to bring about your own reality using your imagination should be proof enough that you yourself have the power of God.
    Unfortunately you lack the capacity to both know and implement things in any realistic scale. That's the difference.
    "I can imagine anything" great, tell me when spongebob is over kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    The word Jesus in many translations essentially means I AM. If you delude yourself into thinking that you are the person you want to be, or you that you already have what you desire, then you have achieved your goal without effort and the physcial manifestation must be imminent. This is what I believe the Bible is all about.
    It doesn't translate to "I am" you dunce. "If you delude yourself", seriously, listen to yourself: You are stating that you should ignore reality and go into woo-woo land just to believe the bible.

    That in itself is more than enough to say:

    You are done.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    Physics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore everything we imagine already exists.
    You are a fucking retard. I had this whole post ready to go and you know what, no. This right here is enough.


    Energy being sustained has nothing to do with your imagination. Nothing. It's a complete non-sequitor to say energy conservation means imagination = reality.


    Done.


  5. #20
    GerrysamHD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    Well unfortunately you are conflating this universe with the multiverse theory.

    Imagination is not indicative of possibility. It's a concept, not a reality.
    ===============================



    That's just ignorant of why we believe things exist. I Mean how do you know there isn't a blind hippo at the bottom of the ocean creating stars with his nostrils? You don't!
    >We don't believe in things that have no evidence. That's why.




    This is essentially every religious argument ever in the end. "It makes me feel good".

    Great. It's also a belief not based on reality that will eventually get skewed into manipulating people like you, you stupid fuck.

    Using a crutch is fine, until you can walk. Using it indefinitely is not knowing what the crutch is for.
    I love the idea of a multiverse, it keeps me going. I love the idea that someday we may find another universe with
    different laws. Its just amazing =D
    Tiocfaidh ár lá

  6. #21
    .Herbs.'s Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    The concept of god is not hard to grasp.
    Imagination is God, and that the part of you that can imagine anything is the part of Him that is in you. It's not hard to grasp at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    A delusion is a belief or set of ideas not set in objective reality. Life is not a delusion you control
    Perhaps doing some research into multiple personality disorder would change your mind about this. People heal their eyes and other physical injuries/ailments within seconds of changing to another personality.
    Life is input that you take in and interpret using your beliefs. Change your beliefs, change your life. Your subjective delusions manifest themselves in the objective world if you believe in them completely. People who suffer from MPD provide plenty of evidence for this.
    You may not be able to change what happens to you, but you can change your interpretation of the outer world. You have complete control of your inner world. The power of your mind is absolute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Unfortunately you lack the capacity to both know and implement things in any realistic scale.
    I am glad I do not live in your reality. Lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    If you delude yourself", seriously, listen to yourself: You are stating that you should ignore reality and go into woo-woo land
    This is exactly what I am saying. It's benefits are boundless. You can manifest whatever you want for yourself and watch it appear with a speed equivalent to the depth of your belief of already having it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    You are a fucking retard.
    This is an interesting viewpoint for you to take. I think it ties in nicely with the opinion I shared in my other post:

    "Athiests are more depressed based on the fact that they limit themselves by their own beliefs to what is possible, and often feel the need to degrade others or otherwise state that they are somehow more superior than those who do not share their viewpoints."

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Energy being sustained has nothing to do with your imagination. Nothing. It's a complete non-sequitor to say energy conservation means imagination = reality.
    If what you imagined did not exist in some form in some place in the Universe, how would you be able to imagine it?
    We are vibrational beings that are able to interpret energy in such a way that allows us to form thoughts, dreams, delusions. To imagine.
    Are you saying you do not believe this energy exists, that you believe humans don't have imaginations, or that you believe humans create and destroy energy when using their imaginations?

    Physics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore everything we imagine must already exist in some way shape or form, in some intangible place in the Universe, until we attract it into our three-dimensional experience. I suggest deluding yourself into feeling like you already have all that you desire as a method to attract these things that you imagine into your objective life. What you focus on expands, so the more you focus on what you like, the more of it you will get.

    My belief is that the Bible is not about an old man in the sky, or a bunch of people in Jerusalem and Romans and whathaveyou. It is an allegorical collection of stories that illustrate the power of the mind. All of the people and places in the Bible are references to parts of the self, with Jesus being the I AM that one imagines to be - the highest form of the self, and God being the Imagination, the father of Jesus.
    Last edited by .Herbs.; 05-08-2015 at 12:56 AM. Reason: removed color tags in quoted text

  7. #22
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    Imagination is God, and that the part of you that can imagine anything is the part of Him that is in you. It's not hard to grasp at all.
    >No evidence or argument for that, saying "it just is" is not acceptable here.


    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    IPerhaps doing some research into multiple personality disorder would change your mind about this. People heal their eyes and other physical injuries/ailments within seconds of changing to another personality.
    Uh no, they don't. They change their perception of pain, that's not "healing".

    Again, citation needed. If you are going to claim every MPD is wolverine, you need a citation.

    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    If what you imagined did not exist in some form in some place in the Universe, how would you be able to imagine it?
    Physics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore everything we imagine must already exist in some way shape or form,
    Citation needed.



    Sorry, if you don't have any evidence of your claims then don't post here. This is not the "make baseless claims" section, please see the spammers section if you want to preach about your "imagination" ideas.



    It's acceptable to discuss ideas, but it's not acceptable to claim anything and act like it counts as debate material.
    Last edited by Empire; 05-08-2015 at 08:04 PM.


  8. #23
    .Herbs.'s Avatar
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    I assumed most of those things I mentioned were common sense. Regarding MPD, the most well known example of what might be considered healing is people possessing personalities that require glasses and ones that have perfect vision. This demonstrates very well the power of perception and belief on the body. If you are truly interested in this topic I encourage you to do a little of the research yourself. You may be able to find more interesting examples of this effect at work.

    Citations: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2760599 , http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8888853

    As for Imagination being God, the only citation of any credibility would be the one you provide yourself after applying the suggestions given through interpreting the Bible as an allegory for the battle within one's own mind - to let go of your limiting beliefs and dare to imagine that you already have the life you desire despite the arguments of your five senses. The delusion of the wish fulfilled should make you see and feel the world mentally as you would physically were your assumption a physical fact.

    Those who believe in the concept of God know that He can do anything, but so can our Imaginations. Do you believe in coincidence?

    Regarding the last part of your post, you would not be able to think or imagine at all if your thoughts did not exist in the Universe some way. That hardly requires a citation, one would think, but the best citation I can provide is that you are able to respond somewhat coherently to this thread.

    If I need to provide proof that you first imagined your response and then attracted into reality what you imagined, then you have my sympathy.

    We can think about something forever and never see it in our world, but once we let ourselves feel its reality, we are bound to encounter it. The more intensely we feel, the sooner we will encounter it. This is the intended purpose of my suggestion for delusion, imagination, prayer. Testing this will provide you with all the proof you need of its efficacy. Use it to attain inside yourself your highest ideals.

    "Whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him. " Mark 11:23

  9. #24
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    I assumed most of those things I mentioned were common sense. Regarding MPD, the most well known example of what might be considered healing is people possessing personalities that require glasses and ones that have perfect vision. This demonstrates very well the power of perception and belief on the body. If you are truly interested in this topic I encourage you to do a little of the research yourself. You may be able to find more interesting examples of this effect at work.
    Citations: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2760599 , http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8888853
    You linked visual changes. Not healing. This is noted because if they change personality back they lose whatever you want to call "healed" eyesight.

    Stating "you should do research" is not my job. It's yours, please respect the burden-of-proof when making claims.
    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    As for Imagination being God, the only citation of any credibility would be the one you provide yourself after applying the suggestions given through interpreting the Bible as an allegory for the battle within one's own mind - to let go of your limiting beliefs and dare to imagine that you already have the life you desire despite the arguments of your five senses. The delusion of the wish fulfilled should make you see and feel the world mentally as you would physically were your assumption a physical fact.




    I see no citations for the rest so not worth arguing.

    If you are citing physics please provide sources or your argument will be entirely ignored.
    Last edited by Empire; 05-08-2015 at 11:38 PM.


  10. #25
    Fidel Alejandro Castro Ru's Avatar
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    You tools, we need communism and post secondary education to help the masses. Religion is a tool of American imperialists, out with it! Think critically and you'll see that America sucks ass so migrate to Cuba!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fidel Alejandro Castro Ru View Post
    You tools, we need communism and post secondary education to help the masses. Religion is a tool of American imperialists, out with it! Think critically and you'll see that America sucks ass so migrate to Cuba!
    Preach, brother Fidel.

    The internet is my god.

    also BB>SS

  12. #27
    .Herbs.'s Avatar
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    You and God / creation energy / call it whatever, are one. There are theories of physics that support this, but one does not have to be a physicist to draw a correlation between your ability to imagine everything and anything instantly, and the need for that thing to exist in reality in an energy form, even if only as an electrical signal in your brain. It exists in the Universe and so it is able to influence the Universe in some way.

    Every action has a reaction, but we cannot always quantify this reaction to make sense using our common ways of thinking. A great metaphor for this truth lies in the fact that in math there are more irrational numbers than rational ones. If we have "irrational" mathematics does that not suggest inherent limitation in all of our beliefs that rely on the logic behind math? Creation energy works in mysterious ways. You don't have to know exactly how it works to take advantage of it.

    If you need 'proof' that imagination has something in common with the Universe, take a look at:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle and consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holonomic_brain_theory and maybe look at http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/58727.html if you want a little more on rational/irrational numbers

    To sum up the above - our brains and how they store memories seem to share the same concept as a hologram, as is demonstrated by Karl Pribram's findings at Yale University in 1948 where he observed that people who have lost portions of their brains never suffered the loss of specific memories. This is when he developed the theory that the whole of someone's memory is stored inside each and every cell of the brain, the memories becoming fuzzier depending on how much of the physical brain is removed or damaged, but still existing in their entirety. The similarity is drawn when you consider the Universe as a hologram, where each fragment contains the whole, meaning that a copy of the entire Universe must exist within each morcel of everything within the Universe - essentially what a fractal is.

    This fragment that is the whole of the Universe in us seems to most clearly be expressed in the power we have to imagine. Hence the words God created man in his image. Everything in existence is just a different expression of that one creation energy, together composing the whole entity of the Universe. Many people seem to like like to call that God. Sounds alright to me.

    I am glad you posted that Spongebob link. It is a great example of how people are brainwashed to make decisions out of fear rather than love. When you imagine things that feel good, you are often imagining things that you'd love to do or have, instead of worrying about money cause of bills, or hating your job, etc. People seem to be used to complaining and making excuses, arguing for the power of their limitations, working jobs they hate out of fear of losing X, Y or Z.

    If people really knew how powerful they were and how in control of their own bodies and lives they could be, that would not bode well for the pockets of those who profit from our misery, so it is only to be expected that you'd see satirical propoganda about the power of our imagination in a childish cartoon. It seems to be an effective method to reinforce and perpetuate the state of helplessness that keeps the manipulation of the masses going and makes those at the top so much money.

    By using your imagination to put attention on thoughts that you'd think if you already had what you desired, you begin to break the pattern that those who would seek to manipulate you have been busy building with their media machine of religion, school, entertainment - building beliefs in you that only serve them. When you begin to think about things you'd love to do and you replace all fearful thoughts, the motivation for your thoughts change, and when you change to thinking about things because you love them instead of out of fear, the experience of life becomes better because it is one you are directly controlling.

    It only makes sense that when you take responsibility for your own thoughts and selectively think about things that let you illicit the most positive feelings in your body, you can apply those positive feelings to any situation as a tool to increase your proficiency with experiencing that situation in the best way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Stating "you should do research" is not my job. It's yours, please respect the burden-of-proof when making claims.
    Doing research is the job of any genuinely curious individual who can think for themselves. Also, you should not misquote people if you are trying to be meaningful or at all relevant in any way. I encouraged you or anyone to do more research if they were curious about that topic - if they were truly interested of course, which you clearly seem not to be. If you interpreted that as "you should do research" then you are the one responsible for any experience of disrespect.

    If you keep relying on mythological "credible" citations to determine your reality, you are giving your power away to a source outside of yourself, and you will never truly be in control of your own life. It is only your belief in them that gives them any credibility. Do you believe them so completely that you cannot overcome your fear? Or does blaming others for what you experience really make you happy?

    Citations are bought and paid for. Imagination is free. The only real power and reality you ever experience comes from inside yourself.

    Will you think for yourself? Think thoughts for the benefit of yourself. Thoughts that take you forward in every way and do not hold you back in any way. To think the best for yourself is to love yourself, and then you can love others. It feels great, but don't take my word for it. Give it a try and vet the process yourself

    "I and my Father are one." John 10:30
    Last edited by .Herbs.; 05-10-2015 at 03:42 PM.

  13. #28
    Empire's Avatar
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    There is so much word salad that I'm just going to pass. I have precious, valuable time to spend on the internet. I'd rather not waste it on a troll or idiot who wants to put paragraphs of "imagination"

    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    There are theories of physics that support this

    Do you watch spirit science? Because that's what you sound like.



  14. #29
    .Herbs.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    There is so much word salad that I'm just going to pass. I have precious, valuable time to spend on the internet. I'd rather not waste it on a troll or idiot who wants to put paragraphs of "imagination"
    If you believe that your brainpower is better spent watching spongebob squarepants and drawing your beliefs about reality from it, more power to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    I have precious, valuable time to spend on the internet. I'd rather not waste it on a troll or idiot
    If you're calling me a troll and an idiot for explaining to you that you have the power to completely control your body and subsequently your life, while providing a solid methodology and also a basis for my beliefs, what does that make you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Do you watch spirit science? Because that's what you sound like.
    I'll leave the cartoon watching to you since it seems to be your primary source of education. I was hoping you had some intelligent basis for your opinions that you would be willing to share, but you seem too busy finding excuses and limitations in yourself. Thank you for being a catalyst that allows me to express the information I have shared. It will help genuinely curious people who browse this thread.
    Last edited by .Herbs.; 05-12-2015 at 06:05 AM.

  15. #30
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    If you believe that .
    You make a claim every other sentence with no citations. These aren't commonly accepted facts either.

    So unless you actually want to back up your claims, you can fuck right off.


    Watch, I'll pick one out at random that you make a nonsequitor to "imagination"
    Quote Originally Posted by .Herbs. View Post
    To sum up the above - our brains and how they store memories seem to share the same concept as a hologram, as is demonstrated by Karl Pribram's findings at Yale University in 1948 where he observed that people who have lost portions of their brains never suffered the loss of specific memories. This is when he developed the theory that the whole of someone's memory is stored inside each and every cell of the brain, the memories becoming fuzzier depending on how much of the physical brain is removed or damaged, but still existing in their entirety. The similarity is drawn when you consider the Universe as a hologram, where each fragment contains the whole, meaning that a copy of the entire Universe must exist within each morcel of everything within the Universe - essentially what a fractal is.
    Our brains are "like a hologram". You mean a computer that displays information, except without a monitor backing. So.....just a computer then.

    A copy exist within each morcel.....

    That's a complete non-sequitor of thought.

    Our brain processes data and stores it in our neurons and people can still recover memories with portions missing, therefore the universe is contained within each spec, like a fractal.

    Brain is X
    Universe is Y

    Two different things.


    That's:


    For you.


    *cough* you're an idiot *cough*.

    -Too subtle?
    Last edited by Empire; 05-12-2015 at 09:02 PM.


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