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  1. #16
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    There's no reason not to claim that someone else created it.
    And who/what led to the big bang?
    There's no planet that is livable yet.
    So you claim we had traveled to Earth then? If we weren't put then what happened to us?
    Ok it's too annoying to multi-quote you so I'm just going to reply in chunks.

    Lets say you don't know something. Pick any topic. Do you think it's justified to make up an explanation?
    Example: What's beneath the surface of jupiter. Do you think "Cats with purple sweaters" is an honest answer?

    Hospitable planets that we have the ability to travel to is a complete non sequitur to the existence of god.

    How is it that you are excluding evolution in this process and involving aliens? Wtf? Again, non-sequitor. to the argument of a god.


    If you can't prove it was a god, don't claim it was one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    That's not about the past, this war between U.S, Europe and Middle East had started from the past and haven't ended yet. That's it.
    About killing innocents see this video :


    Also disable the captions, that guy who made all this captions is pretty much stupid.
    Also have you seen how Building 7 have been destroyed in 11/9? That's how the U.S likes to add many dramatical actions so they can achieve what they want.
    This is a discussion about religion. Not your stupid terrorist shit. Put that in another section if you feel that strongly about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    I'm not going to say anything because all what you said is full of bullshit and doesn't even have true source.
    Everyone has equal fate, it is just that you don't see what God gave you just because you see some one has got more than you. (blindly.)
    Because this is their fate, mostly they have a great fate which is the heaven.
    That's what peoples choose. That's why God gave everyone mind to think what's good and what's bad.
    That's as easy as that the universe itself is made from gases and is going to an end, but you forgot to mention that in the resurrection day, we will have an infinite life in Heaven or Hell.
    http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-t...the-world.html
    DE-TERMI-NISM.


    How many times do I need to beat this into your skull???






    Your god would cause these people to go to hell. To not believe in him. Derp.
    Last edited by Empire; 06-14-2015 at 01:52 AM.


  2. #17
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
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    And who/what led to the big bang?
    You still haven't answered that question yet. Please multi qutoe me, It's not annoying as long as we're discussing in something might be useful for me or might be useful for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Example: What's beneath the surface of jupiter. Do you think "Cats with purple sweaters" is an honest answer?
    That's because we already knew what's beneath it or to be more specific science told us that. But what's if it's been a mystery? I know it's kinda hilarious to say that it is "Cats with purple sweaters" but I'm talking as general, excluding these shit that doesn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Hospitable planets that we have the ability to travel to is a complete non sequitur to the existence of god.
    Do you even know the meaning of life? Dude come on and understand what I'm trying to say. I'm saying "the livable planet" not the "hospitable planets", It's easy to do that stuff with robots and rockets. But my main question, why did the environment or the universe throw us particularly in Earth which is yet the only livable planet for creatures? That explains that either there was an involvement of someone/thing or we're pretty much lucky "lol".

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    How is it that you are excluding evolution in this process and involving aliens? Wtf? Again, non-sequitor. to the argument of a god.
    Excluding evolution? What the fuck? I've not even said that at all. Involving aliens? What the fuck I didn't say that. By the way, evolution is not an excuse for everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    If you can't prove it was a god, don't claim it was one.
    All this things that happened in our universe, yet you try to say there is no prove.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    This is a discussion about religion. Not your stupid terrorist shit. Put that in another section if you feel that strongly about it.
    I bet you haven't even watched it. He discusses the way between them Al Mujhadeen and USA, Europe. Watch it again please. Or I will type everything he mentioned so you can see it if you don't have ears.

    Ok so, I am not gonna watch the explanation of determinism as It's pretty much the same as who deserves the heaven and who deserves the hell..
    Every year in school and university you have exams, if you success in it you get into the next year and so on until you got what you deserved. (The job you get)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Your god would cause these people to go to hell. To not believe in him. Derp.
    It's pretty much like:
    Your education system cause these people to be failures and have no job. Because of not succeeding in exams.

    You're gonna tell me how you're comparing going to hell and being a failure, well am gonna say you're a fucking atheist who doesn't believe in judgement and thinks live is infinite because they're after life and some shit, so keep going on.
    If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
    Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.
    Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value.
    You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.

    -Albert Einstein



  3. #18
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    You still haven't answered that question yet. Please multi qutoe me, It's not annoying as long as we're discussing in something might be useful for me or might be useful for you.
    Do you mean what state the universe was in? Because before that we don't know. And I know you don't either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    That's because we already knew what's beneath it or to be more specific science told us that. But what's if it's been a mystery? I know it's kinda hilarious to say that it is "Cats with purple sweaters" but I'm talking as general, excluding these shit that doesn't make sense.

    It's not hilarious, it's stupid. Claiming something without being able to demonstrate it is true is something we don't do, and we don't do it for a reason.

    You want to claim god? The next guy is going to claim cats with purple sweaters.

    You are both just as justified if you have no evidence to support your claim.

    This is why we resort to the honest answer: we don't know.





    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    Do you even know the meaning of life? Dude come on and understand what I'm trying to say. I'm saying "the livable planet" not the "hospitable planets", It's easy to do that stuff with robots and rockets. But my main question, why did the environment or the universe throw us particularly in Earth which is yet the only livable planet for creatures? That explains that either there was an involvement of someone/thing or we're pretty much lucky "lol".
    42.
    Livable is hospitable....
    There are many planets that can maintain life, we just exist on this one.
    I find it confusing that you are having trouble with your existence. You exist, we know how our race came to be (more or less) and you are claiming it must have been the act of an intelligent being?

    Do you have any evidence for this idea? Because I have mountains for evolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    Ok so, I am not gonna watch the explanation of determinism as It's pretty much the same as who deserves the heaven and who deserves the hell..
    Every year in school and university you have exams, if you success in it you get into the next year and so on until you got what you deserved. (The job you get)

    It's really not the same as who deserves heaven or hell.....

    Determinism is the "cause and effect" relation of universe and being able to predict outcomes depending upon your knowledge of the systems in play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    It's pretty much like:
    Your education system cause these people to be failures and have no job. Because of not succeeding in exams.

    You're gonna tell me how you're comparing going to hell and being a failure, well am gonna say you're a fucking atheist who doesn't believe in judgement and thinks live is infinite because they're after life and some shit, so keep going on.

    Again, it's not. I understand you are just a lazy kid who doesn't want to educate himself yet, but you really should look up something before commenting on it.


    Because right here, I could have slaughtered you. I could have wrote pages on how stupid you looked.



    But I'm not going to do that because it's a waste. You would just throw a hissy fit, it's a lot of effort to write that much, and you clearly aren't educated on the subject so it would also be a waste of my time bashing you.




    Anyway, look this stuff up before commenting.

    The vid I gave is neutral and just an educational vid. But you can also feel free to research this on the web.


  4. #19
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Do you mean what state the universe was in? Because before that we don't know. And I know you don't either.
    Yeah, I don't know. But I was asking you because nothing comes from 0. Means the Big Bang is the reason why our universe started, but how was it before the big bang? nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    It's not hilarious, it's stupid. Claiming something without being able to demonstrate it is true is something we don't do, and we don't do it for a reason.
    It's not claiming, It's imagination . Everything that was done by scientist from the start of our humanity until now was mostly imagination and then they see if it's true. Einstein once said: "Logic will take you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere."

    Let's take from example, Einstein didn't know the relativity theory without imagining. It also started from "How is the speed of light constant?" "What if the holder of a torch has a speed of 300 km/s then the light speed would be 600 km/s?"
    Even though that scientists before him explained everything, he imagined everything in this theory until it came true. Science has a high percent of imagination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    You want to claim god? The next guy is going to claim cats with purple sweaters.
    No, god comes from logic and imagination united. Cats comes from imagination only. Baah no one will every say cats lol.
    When a human sees something strange, he wants to explain this strange thing. What does he do? He imagines, then he exercises this imagines through some test (what ever it is).

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    It's really not the same as who deserves heaven or hell.....

    Determinism is the "cause and effect" relation of universe and being able to predict outcomes depending upon your knowledge of the systems in play.
    That's science!!!??!.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Again, it's not. I understand you are just a lazy kid who doesn't want to educate himself yet, but you really should look up something before commenting on it.


    Because right here, I could have slaughtered you. I could have wrote pages on how stupid you looked.



    But I'm not going to do that because it's a waste. You would just throw a hissy fit, it's a lot of effort to write that much, and you clearly aren't educated on the subject so it would also be a waste of my time bashing you.




    Anyway, look this stuff up before commenting.

    The vid I gave is neutral and just an educational vid. But you can also feel free to research this on the web.
    Ok, I'm going to do my research and if it my statements came true then I'll quote you again.
    If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
    Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.
    Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value.
    You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.

    -Albert Einstein



  5. #20
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    Yeah, I don't know. But I was asking you because nothing comes from 0. Means the Big Bang is the reason why our universe started, but how was it before the big bang? nothing?

    No it was condensed matter. The big bang is the event that "started" our universe. The actual matter existed beforehand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    It's not claiming, It's imagination . Everything that was done by scientist from the start of our humanity until now was mostly imagination and then they see if it's true. Einstein once said: "Logic will take you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere."


    That's great, but until you can demonstrate it to be true there is no reason why we should believe it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    Let's take from example, Einstein didn't know the relativity theory without imagining. It also started from "How is the speed of light constant?" "What if the holder of a torch has a speed of 300 km/s then the light speed would be 600 km/s?"
    Even though that scientists before him explained everything, he imagined everything in this theory until it came true. Science has a high percent of imagination.
    He wasn't taken seriously until he could demonstrate it to be true. And he did.

    Imagination does not mean you don't have a burden of proof to your claim. You still need to demonstrate it's truth.



    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    No, god comes from logic and imagination united.
    Exactly, god is a figment of your imagination. He's just a concept. You have no evidence he's real.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    Cats comes from imagination only.
    Cat's are real. Have you never seen a cat before?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    When a human sees something strange, he wants to explain this strange thing. What does he do? He imagines, then he exercises this imagines through some test (what ever it is)..
    And your god fails every single test. So get the fuck out of my lab.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    That's science!!!??!.
    It's really not though.


    *sigh* I didn't want to do this, but now I have to point out your dishonesty:



    You are trying to change the definition of science and the scientific method to meet a criteria in which your imagination is real and since you can imagine *anything* you claim that god is real.

    The problem with this is that I can easily explain a universe without a god, and now you're SOL.


    When you become so desperate as to try and change the definition of science to "imagination" then you've already lost.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    Ok, I'm going to do my research and if it my statements came true then I'll quote you again.
    Undoubtedly you won't quote me again.


  6. #21
    d1spenser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
    ...Religion explains why we're here and what our purpose is...
    As it was stated earlier, you are mistaking religion with philosophy. Religion sure has its own philosophical teaching, but it is not the only one. There are plenty of philosophical visions to choose from. If you want to get acquainted with how the world is interpreted from a non-religious philosophical point of view, having a look at Marxism might be a good idea. It was one of the first philosophical trends to question religious and other philosophical teachings that one way or another led to a some sort of diety.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    Yeah, I don't know. But I was asking you because nothing comes from 0. Means the Big Bang is the reason why our universe started, but how was it before the big bang? nothing?
    I ain't no professional astrophysicist, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong. As far as I'm aware The Big Bang was not an event that started our universe but rather an event that transformed it from one state into another (from being extremly hot and dense to what we have now). Matter existed before The Big Bang, so it wasn't like something was created out of nothing, but something (matter) was already there.

  7. #22
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d1spenser View Post
    I ain't no professional astrophysicist, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong. As far as I'm aware The Big Bang was not an event that started our universe but rather an event that transformed it from one state into another (from being extremly hot and dense to what we have now). Matter existed before The Big Bang, so it wasn't like something was created out of nothing, but something (matter) was already there.

    You are right for the gist of that.


  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
    I guess the proper way to ask this is: why can't they exist without conflicting with one another?

    I just watched this video:
    And this video brought up that religion answers a different set of questions than science.

    Science explains questions like how things happen. Religion explains why we're here and what our purpose is.

    So what causes these two supposedly different subjects to collide?
    Are they more similar than we think? Or is it just conflicting views?
    This is what I have been saying for a long time now which many people do not understand. In order to understand it, you need to understand what both science and religion is about. Science only deals with the physical world by definition.

    Science: the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

    Unfortunately too many people ignorant of religion and because of atheist activists like Dawkins try to apply this to religion, which deals with the non physical world beyond ours. Whether you believe there is a non physical world or not, the fact is that once you die you will no longer be in this physical world, and religion tries to answer the questions.

    Also the God of the gaps reason is just something again, atheist activists like to spread which is not true. Believing God creates everything does not mean we cannot learn how things work which science tries to explain.

    The fact alone that the scientific method was developed by religious people and the overwhelming contribution to science being made by religious people proves this. Even the Big Bang theory was developed by a Catholic Priest.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  9. #24
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Also the God of the gaps reason is just something again, atheist activists like to spread which is not true.
    It's formal title is the "argument from ignorance", and yes, it's a fallacy.


    I like how you preemptively tried to take down a fallacy because you know how shitty your argument is lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    The fact alone
    Oh this fact proves your argument. Lets see.....

    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    the scientific method was developed by religious people and the overwhelming contribution to science being made by religious people proves this. Even the Big Bang theory was developed by a Catholic Priest.
    I know, isn't it just ironic that all these religious people would eventually inspire the next generations to point out how silly religious belief is through their own discoveries in science?

    Either way, the religious belief did not directly contribute to the discovery and developement of science.

    Science is secular.

    -------------------


    Just to note: Science is also secular because there has never been a valid argument for religion. Ever.

    We have people believing in gods thousands of years old simply because of "tradition"(indoctrination of children).


    These beliefs (as robin has shown) have no legitimate argument. Not one.


  10. #25
    CsGOLeetzHacker's Avatar
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    I'm a christian and I believe in evolution(sorta). I'm f**ked

  11. #26
    up1nsmok3's Avatar
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    This might be a surprising fact, but there is a number of scientists that believe in god. Around 20% do. Why can't they coexist? Because science breaks all the beliefs that Christians believed in for centuries.

  12. #27
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    Quite interesting video. I think the best way to solve this is to have a public debate where religious leaders, scientists and general public should participate. Thanks

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