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  1. #1
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    Why can't religion and science co-exist?

    I guess the proper way to ask this is: why can't they exist without conflicting with one another?

    I just watched this video:
    And this video brought up that religion answers a different set of questions than science.

    Science explains questions like how things happen. Religion explains why we're here and what our purpose is.

    So what causes these two supposedly different subjects to collide?
    Are they more similar than we think? Or is it just conflicting views?

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

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    Empire's Avatar
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    You are mistaking religion with philosophy.

    Religion is not interested in the question, religion dictates the answer.
    ================================================== ==================

    Faith is a useless proposition when it comes to answers of existence. It's basically admitting to using an argument from ignorance to get to the answer.
    ================================================== ===================



    The real reason science and religion don't coexist is because science can't handle claims without proper evidence.


    If science were to accept claims of the supernatural based on nothing more than text and eyewitnesses, superstition would run rampant and science would be a joke.


    Religion doesn't answer claims of why we are here and our purpose, we do. Philosophy does. Religion is just taking the credit for what we already do(yet again) just like the argument from morality.
    Last edited by Empire; 05-11-2015 at 05:17 PM.


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    such a interesting video suggest everyone to watch

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    I'll watch the video when I'm out of class. Nonetheless, they don't co-exist because their entire state contradicts each other, the fact that science, per definition, is 'knowledge', based on evidence and facts, religion has none of that and this is why they're contradictory to each other from one science enthusiast to a religious advocate.

    If I was pure science, I'd say religion is fake because there's no proof God exists, or whatever claim.

    A religious person would ask can you prove that God doesn't exist, and herein lies the issue. Science relies on evidence and if there's no evidence science can't prove although it can't prove it. Empire says this well:

    If science were to accept claims of the supernatural based on nothing more than text and eyewitnesses, superstition would run rampant and science would be a joke.

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    I mean I really don't see a reason why they should sometimes I mean I guess it's just all down to how much people want to believe was lets just say "done by god" and what is scientific. But yet you could just sit back and say doesn't really matter what happend scientificly and say all things are just made by God....meh silly people will always take exstremes and that will cause problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiggers28 View Post
    I mean I really don't see a reason why they should sometimes I mean I guess it's just all down to how much people want to believe was lets just say "done by god" and what is scientific. But yet you could just sit back and say doesn't really matter what happend scientificly and say all things are just made by God....meh silly people will always take exstremes and that will cause problems.
    Yeah, basically you can take anything and claim god did it.

    There is no falsifiability in the religious world.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Yeah, basically you can take anything and claim god did it.

    There is no falsifiability in the religious world.
    Yeah, you're probably trying to say the environment created us randomly and put us on the earth which is the only planet so far that we can live on and it created every accurate info in this universe randomly.
    If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
    Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.
    Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value.
    You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.

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    Ignorance is why we can't live with one and other.


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    Quote Originally Posted by theanonymoussniffer View Post
    Ignorance is why we can't live with one and other.
    Sorta. It's moreso the fact that the world's most practiced religions call for the mass murder of non believers.

    Extremeist muslims attack americans.
    Extremeist christans burn korans in protest
    Extremeist muslims retaliate.

    If we had no sky fairy to fight over it wouldn't be an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    Yeah, you're probably trying to say the environment created us randomly
    First off "random" implies X chance at earth. We can't show that. Nor does anyone claim that. The only thing scientist claim is that X event led to Y.

    Secondly, stating "magic did it" is not an explanation, it's an excuse.


    Third: We have every reason to believe the Earth, Humanity, and Everything was created through a naturalistic process.
    -We have shown that the big bang happened.
    -We have shown that it's possible to create life in certain scenarios.
    -We have shown that evolution happens.
    ===============================================
    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    put us on the earth which is the only planet so far that we can live on
    How does interplanetary travel even matter? I'm sorry, if we can't travel to jupiter "god exist"? What?



    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    it created every accurate info in this universe randomly.
    Well technically we created the information, or at least the description of the reality.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DankKlan View Post
    Sorta. It's moreso the fact that the world's most practiced religions call for the mass murder of non believers.

    Extremeist muslims attack americans.
    Extremeist christans burn korans in protest
    Extremeist muslims retaliate.

    If we had no sky fairy to fight over it wouldn't be an issue.
    I like how extremists think killing people that dont believe in their religion is a form of evangelising and would persuade "non-believers" to join their religion. Religeon get a Vac ban plox. Most extremists are just twisted murderers hiding behind theyre religion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    First off "random" implies X chance at earth. We can't show that. Nor does anyone claim that. The only thing scientist claim is that X event led to Y.
    And what led to Y? Think of it until you will not find an answer the first event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Secondly, stating "magic did it" is not an explanation, it's an excuse.
    And saying that no one did it is also an excuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Third: We have every reason to believe the Earth, Humanity, and Everything was created through a naturalistic process.
    .
    Nature is something we as humans made it, it's just seen by our human perspective. What I mean is, if you are saying that according to science then the Universe is not only seen from our perspective. It is something that neither you'll ever understand nor the world we live in. Probably that's what Enistien was trying to say, just read his theories. Everyone can discover many things in science if he has a good mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    -We have shown that the big bang happened.
    You've never shown that, you've just guessed/predicted that.

    -We have shown that it's possible to create life in certain scenarios.
    You have shown that this is possible according to Earth situations and scenarios. But there's maybe something that's not related to that that might break all this situations and there might be not even any planet in this life that has this scenarios available.

    -We have shown that evolution happens.
    That's because evolution happens in our planet? That's not even something mysterious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    How does interplanetary travel even matter? I'm sorry, if we can't travel to jupiter "god exist"? What?
    Have you even read what I said? I mean we were put on a planet which is the only one that we can live on so far. I mean that this events can't be that accurate without a ruler!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Well technically we created the information, or at least the description of the reality.
    And It's not even the reality, it's how we see things. It may be a little bit hardly close to the reality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by theanonymoussniffer View Post
    like how extremists think killing people that dont believe in their religion is a form of evangelising and would persuade "non-believers" to join their religion. Religeon get a Vac ban plox. Most extremists are just twisted murderers hiding behind theyre religion.
    Ok, who will you believe? A guy who knows and close to the people that you're calling terrorists or the media and people living in Europe and US? I'm living on the Middle East.

    These guys that you call them terrorists aren't even terrorists, they're guys who have lost their freedom, their children have been killed in wars and their women have been raped!!! What can they do to revenge? I will let you answer this.

    And don't forget the 11/9 wasn't even made by Al Qa'eda and Bin Laden himself said indirectly that he didn't do it nor his group.

  16. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    And what led to Y? Think of it until you will not find an answer the first event.
    .
    So we say "we don't know" if we don't know what caused it. We do not claim something else created it until we know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    And saying that no one did it is also an excuse.
    No, saying someone did it is an excuse. Saying that we do not know is honesty.

    Although we do know the process of the universe up to the big bang, more or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    You have shown that this is possible according to Earth situations and scenarios. But there's maybe something that's not related to that that might break all this situations and there might be not even any planet in this life that has this scenarios available..
    Well that's kind of a silly objection. Maybe there is, but if you can't show it and I can, then why should I care what your "maybe" is?


    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post

    Have you even read what I said? I mean we were put on a planet which is the only one that we can live on so far. I mean that this events can't be that accurate without a ruler!!!!
    So again, we can't travel to another hospitable planet(yet), so what? We weren't "put" here. You keep making claims without any evidence lol.

    You can't measure things without a system of measurement. Ok, so what?




    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    Ok, who will you believe? A guy who knows and close to the people that you're calling terrorists or the media and people living in Europe and US? I'm living on the Middle East.
    Well that depends. I mean on one hand you have a point, but on the other hand the media in the middle east is incredibly propagandic and usually owned by the dictator/state.

    So......

    Though to be fair, generally the reporters for the articles are from the middle east and reporting in the area, not just "we have news".



    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    These guys that you call them terrorists aren't even terrorists, they're guys who have lost their freedom, their children have been killed in wars and their women have been raped!!! What can they do to revenge? I will let you answer this..
    Who the fuck cares about their past? I don't think anything could ever justify taking an innocent life as the primary target.

    If these people were taking out political targets or military bases, fine. But they aren't. When you murder people in the streets you lose your "sob story" privilege.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    And don't forget the 11/9 wasn't even made by Al Qa'eda and Bin Laden himself said indirectly that he didn't do it nor his group.

    Bin Laden said "indirectly".

    Right....... he "indirectly" said that......

    Uh-huh.......



    Well it hardly matters now, but there are Islamic terrorist and I'd be hard pressed to say groups like ISIS or Hamas are just "freedom fighters".
    Last edited by Empire; 06-12-2015 at 10:17 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Frought View Post
    And what led to Y? Think of it until you will not find an answer the first event.


    And saying that no one did it is also an excuse.


    Nature is something we as humans made it, it's just seen by our human perspective. What I mean is, if you are saying that according to science then the Universe is not only seen from our perspective. It is something that neither you'll ever understand nor the world we live in. Probably that's what Enistien was trying to say, just read his theories. Everyone can discover many things in science if he has a good mind.


    You've never shown that, you've just guessed/predicted that.



    You have shown that this is possible according to Earth situations and scenarios. But there's maybe something that's not related to that that might break all this situations and there might be not even any planet in this life that has this scenarios available.


    That's because evolution happens in our planet? That's not even something mysterious.






    Have you even read what I said? I mean we were put on a planet which is the only one that we can live on so far. I mean that this events can't be that accurate without a ruler!!!!


    And It's not even the reality, it's how we see things. It may be a little bit hardly close to the reality.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Ok, who will you believe? A guy who knows and close to the people that you're calling terrorists or the media and people living in Europe and US? I'm living on the Middle East.

    These guys that you call them terrorists aren't even terrorists, they're guys who have lost their freedom, their children have been killed in wars and their women have been raped!!! What can they do to revenge? I will let you answer this.

    And don't forget the 11/9 wasn't even made by Al Qa'eda and Bin Laden himself said indirectly that he didn't do it nor his group.
    I was talking about ISIS really when I said that. I have no problem with Arabs I know their shit gets stolen but, ISIS are anything but freedom fighters. Christians did nothing and yet ISIS think it's right to end their lives. ISIS members get married to 7 year old girls. Of course it's allowed because, ALLAH WILLS IT.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On top of that eat human flesh. And rape women from their own country. LOL GG religeon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If there is a God out there that is benevolent.
    Why are some people more fortunate than others? Surely if he loves us all he'd give us an equal fate?
    Why is there human suffering?
    Why is there war? Are some people's purpose in life to live and die in war?
    Brought into this world from clay and to return back into the ground.
    Why would God allow his people to suffer?
    Why would God let evil roam his beloved creation?
    Last edited by Sylar; 06-13-2015 at 01:45 AM.


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  18. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    So we say "we don't know" if we don't know what caused it. We do not claim something else created it until we know.
    There's no reason not to claim that someone else created it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    No, saying someone did it is an excuse. Saying that we do not know is honesty.

    Although we do know the process of the universe up to the big bang, more or less.
    And who/what led to the big bang?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Well that's kind of a silly objection. Maybe there is, but if you can't show it and I can, then why should I care what your "maybe" is?
    There's no planet that is livable yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    So again, we can't travel to another hospitable planet(yet), so what? We weren't "put" here. You keep making claims without any evidence lol.

    You can't measure things without a system of measurement. Ok, so what?
    So you claim we had traveled to Earth then? If we weren't put then what happened to us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Well that depends. I mean on one hand you have a point, but on the other hand the media in the middle east is incredibly propagandic and usually owned by the dictator/state.

    So......

    Though to be fair, generally the reporters for the articles are from the middle east and reporting in the area, not just "we have news".
    I agree with you on this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Who the fuck cares about their past? I don't think anything could ever justify taking an innocent life as the primary target.

    If these people were taking out political targets or military bases, fine. But they aren't. When you murder people in the streets you lose your "sob story" privilege.
    That's not about the past, this war between U.S, Europe and Middle East had started from the past and haven't ended yet. That's it.
    About killing innocents see this video :


    Also disable the captions, that guy who made all this captions is pretty much stupid.
    Also have you seen how Building 7 have been destroyed in 11/9? That's how the U.S likes to add many dramatical actions so they can achieve what they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Bin Laden said "indirectly".

    Right....... he "indirectly" said that......

    Uh-huh.......



    Well it hardly matters now, but there are Islamic terrorist and I'd be hard pressed to say groups like ISIS or Hamas are just "freedom fighters".
    You guy bombed 2 cities in Japan with nuclear bombs and killed many innocents and civilians so you're the first and the biggest terrorists. You shouldn't be talking about terrorism after doing that. You're going to tell me because the U.S was in war against Japan, I am going to tell you that the ISIS and Al Q'aeda are in war with you guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Well it hardly matters now, but there are Islamic terrorist and I'd be hard pressed to say groups like ISIS or Hamas are just "freedom fighters".
    And I would be hard pressed to say countries like U.S are just violence fighters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by theanonymoussniffer View Post
    I was talking about ISIS really when I said that. I have no problem with Arabs I know their shit gets stolen but, ISIS are anything but freedom fighters. Christians did nothing and yet ISIS think it's right to end their lives. ISIS members get married to 7 year old girls. Of course it's allowed because, ALLAH WILLS IT.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On top of that eat human flesh. And rape women from their own country. LOL GG religeon.
    I'm not going to say anything because all what you said is full of bullshit and doesn't even have true source.

    Quote Originally Posted by theanonymoussniffer View Post
    Why are some people more fortunate than others? Surely if he loves us all he'd give us an equal fate?
    Everyone has equal fate, it is just that you don't see what God gave you just because you see some one has got more than you. (blindly.)

    Quote Originally Posted by theanonymoussniffer View Post
    Why is there human suffering?
    Because this is their fate, mostly they have a great fate which is the heaven.

    Quote Originally Posted by theanonymoussniffer View Post
    Why is there war? Are some people's purpose in life to live and die in war?
    That's what peoples choose. That's why God gave everyone mind to think what's good and what's bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by theanonymoussniffer View Post
    Brought into this world from clay and to return back into the ground.
    That's as easy as that the universe itself is made from gases and is going to an end, but you forgot to mention that in the resurrection day, we will have an infinite life in Heaven or Hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by theanonymoussniffer View Post
    Why would God allow his people to suffer?
    Why would God let evil roam his beloved creation?
    http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/muslim-creed/muslim-belief/174982-why-does-allah-allow-suffering-and-evil-in-the-world.html
    If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
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