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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    Iím not trying to justify anything.
    You are trying to justify pedophilia so that your prophet doesn't appear bad.

    Just let that sink in.

    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    1, 3. Is there any evidence that all pedophilic acts result in this all the time? Being a pedophile doesnít imply forced anything. Children can instigate sexual acts and they can potentially fight back (screaming, scratching, biting, discharge of a weapon). Both children and adults alike can be forced into a dangerous situation. This is on the individual perpetrating the act, not the desire.
    2. Children only recognize adults as authoritative because theyíre always in a position to be authoritative in our society. When do children have this same opportunity? Positions of royalty come to mind.
    > So you ignore the medicalntal(psychological) effects it has on children. (thereby admitting defeat).

    3. There is a large portion of evidence stating the vast majority result in abuse (of mental or physical).
    "Children can instigate sexual acts" They can out of curiosity, not out of lust.

    2. This is just a stupid point to make. Aisha wasn't royalty and you are appealing to delusions of grandeur.


    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    Source?
    .
    Check out any children's psychology textbook where it mentions sex and age.

    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    I never said it wasnít a big deal. In fact, I said ďa big no no for most parentsÖĒ. Pedophiles being treated worse in prison systems is only a reflection of how our society views these individuals. Illegal =/= wrong. Calm down.
    You make two easily defeated points here.
    1. Comparing a "big no no" to an illegal, federal offense.
    2. Illegal = wrong to these people you are claiming think it's ok. (what a dimwit).




    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    No. Because neither children nor adults had sex ed back then, you canít justify those sexual acts to be wrong. If my premise of sexual education is sound, of course.


    I am only making the argument because I think the premise is sound. Obviously, if it isnít then my argument fails.
    You haven't stated a formal argument this entire time.
    -Stating "i think the premise is true" without having a premise is a pretty fail.


    As far as I can tell your formal argument so far looks like this

    P1: Muhammad(40+years old) lusted over Aisha(9 years old) who was at the time playing with dolls.
    P2: If you don't have education, then the acts can't be morally wrong.
    P3: "Because neither children nor adults had sex ed back then, you canít justify those sexual acts to be wrong"

    C: Muhammad being a pedophile is not wrong.



    P2 being your entire argument, fails.(for two reasons actually)

    1. The lack of education is not a justifiable excuse to commit morally wrong actions. We do not excuse slavery, we do not excuse genocide, murder, or any other serious crime, we do not excuse pedophilia either.

    2. The all-knowing all powerful God didn't inform Muhammad.



    So the fun part is that you are both wrong according to logic and Islam.


    So that's what, 4 arguments now?


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    Iím not trying to justify anything.
    You are trying to justify pedophilia so that your prophet doesn't appear bad.

    Just let that sink in.

    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    1, 3. Is there any evidence that all pedophilic acts result in this all the time? Being a pedophile doesnít imply forced anything. Children can instigate sexual acts and they can potentially fight back (screaming, scratching, biting, discharge of a weapon). Both children and adults alike can be forced into a dangerous situation. This is on the individual perpetrating the act, not the desire.
    2. Children only recognize adults as authoritative because theyíre always in a position to be authoritative in our society. When do children have this same opportunity? Positions of royalty come to mind.
    > So you ignore the medicalntal(psychological) effects it has on children. (thereby admitting defeat).

    3. There is a large portion of evidence stating the vast majority result in abuse (of mental or physical).
    "Children can instigate sexual acts" They can out of curiosity, not out of lust.

    2. This is just a stupid point to make. Aisha wasn't royalty and you are appealing to delusions of grandeur.


    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    Source?
    .
    Check out any children's psychology textbook where it mentions sex and age.

    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    I never said it wasnít a big deal. In fact, I said ďa big no no for most parentsÖĒ. Pedophiles being treated worse in prison systems is only a reflection of how our society views these individuals. Illegal =/= wrong. Calm down.
    You make two easily defeated points here.
    1. Comparing a "big no no" to an illegal, federal offense.
    2. Illegal = wrong to these people you are claiming think it's ok. (what a dimwit).




    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    No. Because neither children nor adults had sex ed back then, you canít justify those sexual acts to be wrong. If my premise of sexual education is sound, of course.


    I am only making the argument because I think the premise is sound. Obviously, if it isnít then my argument fails.
    You haven't stated a formal argument this entire time.
    -Stating "i think the premise is true" without having a premise is a pretty fail.


    As far as I can tell your formal argument so far looks like this

    P1: Muhammad(40+years old) lusted over Aisha(9 years old) who was at the time playing with dolls.
    P2: If you don't have education, then the acts can't be morally wrong.
    P3: "Because neither children nor adults had sex ed back then, you canít justify those sexual acts to be wrong"

    C: Muhammad being a pedophile is not wrong.



    P2 being your entire argument, fails.(for two reasons actually)

    1. The lack of education is not a justifiable excuse to commit morally wrong actions. We do not excuse slavery, we do not excuse genocide, murder, or any other serious crime, we do not excuse pedophilia either.

    2. The all-knowing all powerful God didn't inform Muhammad.



    So the fun part is that you are both wrong according to logic and Islam.


    So that's what, 4 arguments now?





    This is really easy:
    Quote Originally Posted by balkanbird View Post
    No, because murder is always wrong regardless of time or circumstance. However, the same canít be said of pedophilia, at least from my premise. We're not talking about the level of violence in such acts, but the wrongness of them.


    No. An individual can be incarcerated for pedophilic crimes without actually engaging in pedophilic acts, i.e. owning anything considered to be child pornography, this is not limited to actual depictions of children. Forceful rape of any individual, regardless of age, should be met with lethal injection in most cases.



    I think itís a pretty big leap to suggest that children instigating sexual acts donít understand what theyíre doing. Can you prove this?
    1. You can't say one immoral act is wrong but not another. Special pleading.

    2. Ok so you are basically equating two crimes. Committing pedophilic acts(which Muhammad did) and possessing illegal items.

    3. I think it's a pretty big fucking leap to say that children at the age of 9 instigate sexual acts with 40+ year old adults, especially with relevance to this topic.

    You are saying that Aisha instigated the sex. Which is a boldfaced lie due to Muhammad pursuing her the entire time.


    Honestly, this kind of argument makes me sick. Because you are either a pedophile yourself or you are so desperate to defend your prophet you'll suggest the "children really wanted the dick".


    It's vomit inducing to be sure.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    To build ties with people as was the case with Aisha. He pbuh was married to Aisha for 9 years and they had no children, contraception was not around in those days.


    And I guess the fact that he was old and probably shooting blanks never crossed your mind eh?

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