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  1. #1
    Empire's Avatar
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    Question on Jesus

    Here let me put down the most basic, basic argument against an Islamic viewpoint of Jesus. Not even from a religious perspective.

    1. Islam Came about 500 years after Jesus has died.(give or take)
    2. Regardless of beliefs, people have already known about Jesus for 500 years.
    3. THEN, i repeat, 500 years after, Islam makes new claims about Jesus than those which previously existed.

    Now whatever you believe, fine. But history can tell us the basics.

    1stBelief-religious.
    500 years later
    2ndBelief-religious.(but relating to the first)

    Now think. If Jesus was as Islam claims, why the 500 years?

    There are only Three answers i can think of.
    1. Islam hid the real identity of Jesus, and passed them down through generations without spreading them to the public, for reasons unknown.
    2. Jesus was not related to Islam.
    3. Islam used the hype of Christianity and made up what they believe about Jesus.

    So my question is not whether Jesus is who Christianity says he is.

    My question is:

    Since Islam had come 500 years after Christianity had "started", why does Islam even bother mentioning Jesus?


  2. #2
    alijiad's Avatar
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    becasue of he is a prophet of islam btw just to tell u jesus neve said he was son of god he said he was a son of man just to make it retorical btw i dont get what your askin here form us

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    Empire's Avatar
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    What i'm asking is why does Islam bother telling people Jesus is a prophet of Islam 500 years after he died?

    -And btw alli: I never said anything thing about him being the son of god. Don't bring up stuff.


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    wow awsome content

  5. #5
    DraGzon's Avatar
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    In the name of God the Merciful

    I think I understood your question

    and to know the answer first you must know what is "Islam" or "Muslim" means ?

    The word "Islam" itself means "Submission to Allah." The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of "Christianity" which was named after Jesus Christ, "Buddhism" after Gutama Buddha , "Marxism" after Karl Marx, and "Confucianism" after Confucius.

    Similarly, Islam is not named after a tribe like "Judaism" after the tribe of Judah and "Hinduism" after the Hindus. The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the will of the only true god worthy of worship, "Allah" (known as God "the Father" in Christianity).

    Anyone who does indeed submit to the will of Allah as required by Islam is termed a "Muslim," which means one who has submitted to the will of Allah. Many people in the West have developed the sad mis *******d trend of calling Islam "Muhammadenism" and it's followers "Muhammadins." This is a totally foreign word to Muslims and unrecognized by them. No Muslim has ever called his religion "Muhammadenism" or called himself a "Muhammadin."

    And because we as Muslims believe that all prophets came a unified message from God with different laws and codes that govern the followers of each prophet, but one parent is the worship of God alone

    Therefore, we believe that all the prophets and their followers were Muslims


    And These are some verses from the Koran shows what I mean :


    002.132 And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! God hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the State of Submission (to Allah).

    002.133 Were ye witnesses when Death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy God and the God of thy fathers- of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) God: To Him we bow (in Islam)."
    ---

    God said :

    021.025 Not an apostle did We send before thee without this inspiration sent by Us to him: that there is no god but I; therefore worship and serve Me.

    -----

    002.285 The Apostle believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, Our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

    002.286 On no soul doth God place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray): "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."








    I hope to be reconciled in the answer to your question
    Last edited by DraGzon; 01-26-2010 at 06:30 AM.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to DraGzon For This Useful Post:

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  7. #6
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DraGzon View Post
    I think I understood your question

    and to know the answer first you must know what is "Islam" or "Muslim" means ?

    The word "Islam" itself means "Submission to Allah." The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of "Christianity" which was named after Jesus Christ, "Buddhism" after Gutama Buddha , "Marxism" after Karl Marx, and "Confucianism" after Confucius.

    Similarly, Islam is not named after a tribe like "Judaism" after the tribe of Judah and "Hinduism" after the Hindus. The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the will of the only true god worthy of worship, "Allah" (known as God "the Father" in Christianity).

    Anyone who does indeed submit to the will of Allah as required by Islam is termed a "Muslim," which means one who has submitted to the will of Allah. Many people in the West have developed the sad mis *******d trend of calling Islam "Muhammadenism" and it's followers "Muhammadins." This is a totally foreign word to Muslims and unrecognized by them. No Muslim has ever called his religion "Muhammadenism" or called himself a "Muhammadin."

    NOT NEEDED

    And because we as Muslims believe that all prophets came a unified message from God with different laws and codes that govern the followers of each prophet, but one parent is the worship of God alone

    Therefore, we believe that all the prophets and their followers were Muslims


    And These are some verses from the Koran shows what I mean :


    002.132 And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! God hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the State of Submission (to Allah).

    002.133 Were ye witnesses when Death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy God and the God of thy fathers- of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) God: To Him we bow (in Islam)."
    ---

    God said :

    021.025 Not an apostle did We send before thee without this inspiration sent by Us to him: that there is no god but I; therefore worship and serve Me.

    -----

    002.285 The Apostle believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, Our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

    002.286 On no soul doth God place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray): "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."








    I hope to be reconciled in the answer to your question


    I noted that you quoted from the Koran. The book that was written 500 years after Jesus had died, when the "christian bible" already had its text out.

    You see, thats kind of my point.

    The Koran comes out 500 years after Jesus has died. There are already text from the Christians on this Jesus and w/e the claim he did.

    Historically:
    Christianity was fast growing religion at the time. The Romans had started to adopt it and it was spreading.

    My theory:
    That Islam did what the Romans did. They adopted Jesus in there religion. It would have more chance to convert some of the new Christians, and give the feeling that Islam is sympathetic to Christian cause.

    You see, that is how i view the relationship between Jesus and Islam.

    Historically i can't find any logical answer other than that.


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    DraGzon's Avatar
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    Do you think that Islam and the Messenger of Islam peace be upon him And his companions, set up this movement and suffered all the hardship and ill-treatment of non-believers of Mecca in order to call this religion the past twenty years Only to work on bringing the sympathy of the Christians and get them to leave their religion and conversion to Islam, then what? i think this is not make any sense
    While the pre-mission time of the Prophet of Islam peace be upon him was the worst ages of Christianity, spreading superstition and religious persecution and the wars betwen christians denomination , Do you think that Islam is envy Christians their status who they were at this time and wanted to turn them away from their religion

    By the way Did you know that the Messenger of Islam, peace be upon him lived all his life poor Matt and did not inherited any money ( if you think that he PBUH want to be rich or to be a Crowned king )
    Last edited by DraGzon; 01-26-2010 at 02:10 PM.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DraGzon View Post


    1.Do you think that Islam and the Messenger of Islam peace be upon him And his companions, set up this movement and suffered all the hardship and ill-treatment of non-believers of Mecca in order to call this religion the past twenty years Only to work on bringing the sympathy of the Christians and get them to leave their religion and conversion to Islam, then what?

    i think this is not make any sense


    2While the pre-mission time of the Prophet of Islam peace be upon him was the worst ages of Christianity, spreading superstition and religious persecution and the wars betwen christians denomination , Do you think that Islam is envy Christians their status who they were at this time and wanted to turn them away from their religion

    3By the way Did you know that the Messenger of Islam, peace be upon him lived all his life poor Matt and did not inherited any money ( if you think that he PBUH want to be rich or to be a Crowned king )
    1. I'm sure English isn't your first language, and thats fine with me. But i need to understand what you said and repeating "peace be upon him" isn't needed.
    That being said, is this Messenger of Islam Jesus or Muhammad? I honestly can't understand why you can't just says his name, its so simple.

    2. I'm gonna take a guess and say your talking about Muhammad. Christianity at the time was growing, the persecution had stopped more or less. As for envy, i don't know about religious envy really. Turning them away from there religion? Yeah, no duh. IF you believed your religion was true, then why would you not want to convert?

    3. I'm going to guess Muhammad again, although Jesus might work.
    Who cares about his wealth? i'm not mentioning it, it doesn't matter, and its distracting. Don't start talking about his life story, its not relating to the conversation.



    My theory still stands:
    That Islam did what the Romans did. They adopted Jesus in there religion. It would have more chance to convert some of the new Christians, and give the feeling that Islam is sympathetic to Christian cause.
    Last edited by Empire; 01-26-2010 at 03:52 PM.


  10. #9
    Scrcrw's Avatar
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    I htink u have an interesting point here, but what ur gonna find is that lots of those ancient religions are interlinked, for example jew highly value the first 5 books of the old testament, Jesus was a jew, the sign he wore upon the cross translates to I jesus of Nazareth king of the jews, but what does this have to do witht he islam thing, it shows how the religions can be intertwined

    muslims believe that jesus was a prophet, they centre their belief around Muhammad, but what ur saying that they brought up the stuff about jesus 500 years previously, i think u are understandably correct to a certain extent in stating that Islam adopted jesus into their religion as to gain followers, it makes sense

    but however this is a matter of religion and beliefs and because all religions are different there is no set fact or reason all the time, which makes it all a matter of opinion


    Shifty sexy shit


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    /b/oss's Avatar
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    jesus was true! GOD BLESS AMERICA AND EU

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major_the_hacker View Post
    jesus was true! GOD BLESS AMERICA AND EU
    please refrain from trollin,

    kthnxbai


  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post




    I noted that you quoted from the Koran. The book that was written 500 years after Jesus had died, when the "christian bible" already had its text out.

    You see, thats kind of my point.

    The Koran comes out 500 years after Jesus has died. There are already text from the Christians on this Jesus and w/e the claim he did.

    Historically:
    Christianity was fast growing religion at the time. The Romans had started to adopt it and it was spreading.

    My theory:
    That Islam did what the Romans did. They adopted Jesus in there religion. It would have more chance to convert some of the new Christians, and give the feeling that Islam is sympathetic to Christian cause.

    You see, that is how i view the relationship between Jesus and Islam.

    Historically i can't find any logical answer other than that.
    The bible is changed alot since it came out whereas the quran has never changed... since it has came out

  14. #13
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waldoa93 View Post
    The bible is changed alot since it came out whereas the quran has never changed... since it has came out
    Yeah, its called translations. Good job being naive.


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    Waldoa93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Yeah, its called translations. Good job being naive.
    no u dumb mother fucker... the bibles sections have been rewritten not like the quran...

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