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  1. #1
    hbk's Avatar
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    Cool Argument for the existence of GOD

    The cosmological argument is simply the claim that since causality exists, there must be a first cause i.e. uncaused cause. This uncaused cause is further interpreted as a supreme being, i.e. God. The first and most simple argument for the existence of God is that every finite being or matter has a cause, nothing is the cause of itself, a causal chain cannot be of infinite length, therefore a first cause must exist and thus this first cause is termed as God.
    In relation with big bang theory, this above argument can further be styled as, since everything has a cause behind its existence, the consolidated mass, even if it came from a different universe must have had a cause for it to exist. Therefore universe had a cause. This argument is usually termed as The Kalam Cosmological argument which was set forth by William Lane Craig. Furthermore, since there is absolutely no scientific proof for the existence of universe, the cause must be personal.
    Another important cosmological argument was put forth by Tomas Aquinas. This argument is better known as the argument of contingency and in this argument; the distinction drawn between God and universe is that the existence of universe is contingent i.e. the universe could have not existed. Everything has a beginning and an end. Since it is possible for things not to exist, there could be a time that did not in fact exist, and since the universe is contingent, it is possible that there was a time when nothing existed, but there must exist a necessary being whose non-existence is impossible, in order for everything to exist; if not, nothing could exist. This being is termed as God.
    Conversely, there are many arguments that deny the existence of God. The first being that “infinite regress is impossible” i.e. there is a one beginning and one end, is just a presupposition and contradicts the Hindu concept of SAMSARA (cycle of birth, death and rebirth), based on our Karma (actions). The cosmos is created then destroyed and re-created again, an infinite number of times. The Hindu Absolutism is a belief that focuses on self-realization through understanding the absolute oneness that is the absolute nature of reality (BRAHMA). This tradition in further divided into two schools or traditions namely ADAVAITA VEDANTA and VISISTADVAITA VEDANTA. ADVAITA means ‘non-dual’ and in this tradition, we don’t see the connection between ourselves because we’re superimposing things on it and this superimposition prevents us from seeing our true self which is identical with the absolute. There is no difference between our true self and the Brahman and the ignorance of this reality causes suffering. A good analogy for this is a ray of light passing through a prism i.e. although there is only one ray of light passing through the prism, it splits up into a wide spectrum of colours which are not real (illusion). In this system all dualities are an illusion and absolute oneness can be achieved by mediation.
    The basic concept of BUDDHISM is the fact that there is nothing absolute in this world; everything is relative, conditioned and impermanent and that there is no unchanging, everlasting, absolute substance the true self. Everything is impermanent and there is no ‘self’ or ‘essence’. By eliminating the cause, we can eliminate pain or suffering, and we can eliminate cause by following the noble eight fold path with leads to liberation.
    In TAOISM, TAO (path, way etc.) is a force that follows through all living and non-living things. It regulates natural processes and nourishes balance in the Universe. It embodies harmony of opposites i.e. YIN (feminine, dark, soft, moist) and YANG (masculine, bright, hard, dry, aggressive). TAOISM follows a cyclical timeline and strongly promotes health and vitality.
    In my point of view, the existence of God can be rationally proven but it is based on premises and is not ‘self-evident’. One simple argument for the existence of God is; nothing in the world is totally spontaneous i.e. every substance requires an atmosphere and a force for it to exist, and if we think of first force behind everything that is today, we think of a supreme being that is God. Moreover, having the concept God in our mind can explain many unanswered questions which have still not been proven by science.
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  2. #2
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    I didn't read all of that because it's unnecessary, the cosmological argument fails because all it does is attributes the explanation of the event to a supernatural force which only pushes the link of causation one notch back. The "We don't know how it happened therefore God did it" argument, isn't a valid argument. If everything has a cause what caused God? Then what caused the thing that caused God? Ad Infinitum. When you say "God doesn't need a cause" you're contradicting your previous statement of "everything has a cause that exists". If you say God doesn't need a cause because he is outside of space and time then your pushing your God outside the realm of the arguable, rendering any arguments for or against a God useless. And further how can you justify saying God exists outside of space and time? Because at this point your speculating on conjectures. It would be like me arguing that unicorns prefer carrots over cabbage. Also, if you state God doesn't have a beginning, what stops us from saying the universe never had a beginning? Let's say the energy that caused the universe has always existed. Then Occam's Razor would render the God hypothesis invalid, preferring the natural explanation (and thus simpler) over the supernatural.

    Saying "God did it" to questions for which we don't have answers is intellectually lazy. It isn't an answer,all it does is it stops us looking for an answer.

    Did you just discovery apologetics? Cosmological arguments galore.

    What I often notice with theists is that they're uncomfortable with the answer "I don't know". We don't know what happened before the big bang, we don't know what caused the big bang. Quantum physicists are working on possible explanations but we're still in the dark about a lot of things.

    I've only skimmed through your posts but I'll read it more carefully in an hour or two and give a thorough response.

    Giddy with anticipation,
    ~Aleks

    (Don't worry, atheists don't bite, hard)
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  3. #3
    Empire's Avatar
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    long time no see hbk! Welcome back.


  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Empire For This Useful Post:

    hbk (03-22-2010)

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    God exist and the proof is u !! even if ur a moron .

  6. #5
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choobinmaway View Post
    God exist and the proof is u !! even if ur a moron .
    Wow, I'm convinced. Brilliant retort.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

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    -Lame's Avatar
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    wow that is too long, not going to read all that, i do believe in the existence of God.

  8. #7
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    Wow, I'm convinced. Brilliant retort.
    better than the "Jesus is a zombie" one lulz.


  9. #8
    dylan40's Avatar
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    idk if i believe in him but i do pray at night just incase he does exist

  10. #9
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    better than the "Jesus is a zombie" one lulz.
    Jewish zombies are more believable than gods.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  11. #10
    Mouzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    Jewish zombies are more believable than gods.
    We're taking over the world, according to some people.

  12. #11
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzie View Post
    We're taking over the world, according to some people.
    You're a zombie?
    High five! I want to be a zombie...
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  13. #12
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    You're a zombie?
    High five! I want to be a zombie...
    It takes year of practice.


  14. #13
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    It takes year of practice.
    How did we go so off topic?

    HBK I have a question for you. I'd like to present you with Euthyphro's dilemma:
    "Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"

    In layman's terms this would be:
    "Is that which is good commanded by God because it's good, or is it good because God commands it?"
    Last edited by Paroxysm; 03-24-2010 at 09:57 AM.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  15. #14
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    How did we go so off topic?

    HBK I have a question for you. If so I'd like to present you with Euthyphro's dilemma:
    "Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"

    In layman's terms this would be:
    "Is that which is good commanded by God because it's good, or is it good because God commands it?"
    Well im not hbk, but my answer is that:

    There is no good or evil, there only is.


  16. #15
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Well im not hbk, but my answer is that:

    There is no good or evil, there only is.
    That's why this question is for theists...
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

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