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  1. #31
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    You are all conveniently not presenting any proof.

    And let me make a message too:
    SOMETHING WRITTEN BY MAN ISN'T THE WORD OF A GOD

  2. #32
    Visiblegaming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeus View Post
    You are all conveniently not presenting any proof.

    And let me make a message too:
    SOMETHING WRITTEN BY MAN ISN'T THE WORD OF A GOD
    Bible has never been touched nor read by Jesus, and Jesus is the main person in the bible? Bible is written by some people who have NEVER met Jesus. and years after he was raised up to heaven.

    The Quran on the other hand was here since angel gabriel, and read by prophet mohammed and taught by prophet mohammed and his companians whom gave all there wealth away to the poor, and came on his journey to spread the word.

    Though the oldest and first bible was in my opinion slightly perfect, till it got touched by the wrong people.

    if theres a Old commandment [revelation] and New [revelation] what makes you think the Quran isn't the Final revelation, God told us the Quran is the last and final revelation which will be kept untouched.

    you say the Quran is written by the devil, when it goes against him. then most Christians would use "but the devil is a deceiver" how do you know he didn't change the old testament?

    Old testament = Priest dont get paid.
    New testament = Priest get paid?

    See anything suspicious there? Being a priest is a business, want to know why? because most priest and pastors make millions. Just look at pastor chris. 2million per year? WOW.

    he claims to heal people? how about watching undercover documentaries when he gets interviewed and put on the hot spot, and his security escort the camera crew out the building.

  3. #33
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visiblegaming View Post
    you remind me of a college teacher of mine who kept telling me to stop being rude to him, when i aint, then when i do switch and become rude, he says to me "you see, stop doing that.."

    Dont put words in my mouth, and i wont switch. next time you qoute me carry proof of the link where i said this on this forum PLEASE.
    I will say this again..you were posting this Codex theory of discrediting Christ quite a bit..I proved you wrong through diligent study of my own book, physical evidence, and accurate transcription. Your argument was that our text was corrupt, and you found this 1600 year old text that proves that Christian bibles are corrupt because the text in the Codex is different.

    I showed you that the text was the same.

    Now tell me how I am wrong bro.

  4. #34
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    But can you prove that there wasn't an older version of the Qur'an or that it was actually written by the prophet?

  5. #35
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeus View Post
    But can you prove that there wasn't an older version of the Qur'an or that it was actually written by the prophet?
    Not sure who you're talking too..
    but I never even made claims about that.
    Muslims believe the Qu'ran was given to them by the Angel Gabriel.

  6. #36
    Visiblegaming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I will say this again..you were posting this Codex theory of discrediting Christ quite a bit..I proved you wrong through diligent study of my own book, physical evidence, and accurate transcription. Your argument was that our text was corrupt, and you found this 1600 year old text that proves that Christian bibles are corrupt because the text in the Codex is different.

    I showed you that the text was the same.

    Now tell me how I am wrong bro.
    Show me maximum 5 verses which i didn't even claim are wrong, and you show me them? OH LORDI LORD! THE BIBLE IS NOT CORRUPT! 5 VERSES ARE EQUAL OH EM GE! THIS IS INCREDIBLE MAN! HELALUJAH OR W.E IT IS!

    ...-.- over 1000 faults in the codex compared to the codex found years after, and compared to the bible its a JOKE.

    The quran has been equal since the time it came. and thats how it will stay.

    Heres something from the quran you need to see:

    [Quran 2:11] When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

    Christians are in love with this fairytale of peace, but haven't you noticed most wars are started by Christians? American army = Christian populated, and all they want is peace.. but what are they doing? digging a whole through the ground with bombs.

    Coeus
    Everytime you qoute a bible it should be either "mark, john, mathew..." and so on, the quran, we Just qoute the quran and thats it. because theres 1 version of hours and 26 versions of the bible if not more.

  7. #37
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visiblegaming View Post
    Show me maximum 5 verses which i didn't even claim are wrong, and you show me them? OH LORDI LORD! THE BIBLE IS NOT CORRUPT! 5 VERSES ARE EQUAL OH EM GE! THIS IS INCREDIBLE MAN! HELALUJAH OR W.E IT IS!

    ...-.- over 1000 faults in the codex compared to the codex found years after, and compared to the bible its a JOKE.

    The quran has been equal since the time it came. and thats how it will stay.

    Heres something from the quran you need to see:

    [Quran 2:11] When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

    Christians are in love with this fairytale of peace, but haven't you noticed most wars are started by Christians? American army = Christian populated, and all they want is peace.. but what are they doing? digging a whole through the ground with bombs.

    Coeus
    Everytime you qoute a bible it should be either "mark, john, mathew..." and so on, the quran, we Just qoute the quran and thats it. because theres 1 version of hours and 26 versions of the bible if not more.
    Bro, what Codex found years after?
    Do you even research this stuff?
    The Sinaiticus and Vaticanus were found generally at the same time period.

    I tried telling you that these books cannot be depended on,
    that there are many fragments, unfinished writings,
    I don't understand how you can use this against me,
    when I already told you that Christians do not find these credible.

    You tend to forget that it is much harder for Christians to rely on physical evidence, because our scripture predates your own by many years.
    You wanted this thread to damn Christians so badly my friend.
    I am sorry it didn't work out that way for you,
    truly it seemed very important for you.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visiblegaming View Post
    The Quran on the other hand was here since angel gabriel, and read by prophet mohammed and taught by prophet mohammed and his companians whom gave all there wealth away to the poor, and came on his journey to spread the word.

    Though the oldest and first bible was in my opinion slightly perfect, till it got touched by the wrong people.

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Old testament = Priest dont get paid.
    New testament = Priest get paid?

    See anything suspicious there? Being a priest is a business, want to know why? because most priest and pastors make millions. Just look at pastor chris. 2million per year? WOW.
    Red: So, do you have any proof that the quran is actually the word of god? You say that the angel gabriel gave it to him, but i see no proof of that outside of "its written in the quran." In contrast, i could write a book, say it was given to me by god, and then if anyone asked for proof i could say "its in the book".

    Blue. I don't understand, how do you expect them to have a house, or means of transportation, or food, if they don't get paid? They have to show up at the church every day, so they can't have another job.

    In the old testament the tribes and nation supported the priest financially and with a home/food, it was the same as getting paid.

    :/ who and why should i care about "pastor chris"? So what if he makes 2mil. You have the heads of scientology making a lot more, but you don't see me complaining.


  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Red: So, do you have any proof that the quran is actually the word of god? You say that the angel gabriel gave it to him, but i see no proof of that outside of "its written in the quran." In contrast, i could write a book, say it was given to me by god, and then if anyone asked for proof i could say "its in the book".

    Blue. I don't understand, how do you expect them to have a house, or means of transportation, or food, if they don't get paid? They have to show up at the church every day, so they can't have another job.

    In the old testament the tribes and nation supported the priest financially and with a home/food, it was the same as getting paid.

    :/ who and why should i care about "pastor chris"? So what if he makes 2mil. You have the heads of scientology making a lot more, but you don't see me complaining.
    Apparently he doesn't read either OT or NT where it was the Prophet Daniel, and Christ that said 10% of your income should Go to those that teach you.
    Does this mean: Pay or DIE? No. It means if you have the means to donate, than it should be done, since they are doing God's work and sacrificing their own livelihood so that they can spread the message of salvation.
    Wow..how evil huh?

  10. #40
    Casavir's Avatar
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    Hell no,you're not comparing the Christians to the US government.
    And the New Testament was mostly written by apostotles,news buddy!
    The Old Testament was for the Jews and adopted for the Christians later on,as it was talking about the coming of the Messiah on earth.
    MUHAMMED THOUGHT IT WAS ANGEL GABRIEL,THROUGH HIS WIFE.WHAT CAN YOU POSSIBLY NOT UNDERSTAND?
    I'll tell you how I know.
    somewhere it says that there will come a messiah like prophet who will speak about a dream,making it look so good that he will convert millions.but we shouldn't listen to him,because he's the devil.
    or something like that,don't remember I'll search and tell you where you can find that.
    anyway.I know it's not the final revelation because God doesn't turn from a god who brings murderers to heaven because they regretted trully what they did,to a god who kills the unbelievers,and cuts hands of the thieves.
    and let's not forget the warrior paradise :P
    Christians were more and older than the Muslims,yet the Muslims made more wars from a peninsula in a few centuries than the Christians did at that time(depends on how you define christians ofc)
    If you want to compare the two religions like that,I'm sorry darling,but you lose.
    Islam is barbaric compared to Christianity,the actual christianity,I'm not talking about the US troops raping and killing civilians in Iraq.
    Quote Originally Posted by Armalite42 View Post
    I am the sperm that won
    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    Surprisingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    whoever made this thread... you just got owned by Casavir...
    Ὦ ξεῖν', ἀγγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις ὅτι τῇδε κείμεθα, τοῖς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.

    50% Spartan,50% Macedonian.100% Greek

  11. #41
    Visiblegaming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casavir View Post
    Hell no,you're not comparing the Christians to the US government.
    And the New Testament was mostly written by apostotles,news buddy!
    The Old Testament was for the Jews and adopted for the Christians later on,as it was talking about the coming of the Messiah on earth.
    MUHAMMED THOUGHT IT WAS ANGEL GABRIEL,THROUGH HIS WIFE.WHAT CAN YOU POSSIBLY NOT UNDERSTAND?
    I'll tell you how I know.
    somewhere it says that there will come a messiah like prophet who will speak about a dream,making it look so good that he will convert millions.but we shouldn't listen to him,because he's the devil.
    or something like that,don't remember I'll search and tell you where you can find that.
    anyway.I know it's not the final revelation because God doesn't turn from a god who brings murderers to heaven because they regretted trully what they did,to a god who kills the unbelievers,and cuts hands of the thieves.
    and let's not forget the warrior paradise :P
    Christians were more and older than the Muslims,yet the Muslims made more wars from a peninsula in a few centuries than the Christians did at that time(depends on how you define christians ofc)
    If you want to compare the two religions like that,I'm sorry darling,but you lose.
    Islam is barbaric compared to Christianity,the actual christianity,I'm not talking about the US troops raping and killing civilians in Iraq.
    [Exodus 21:17]
    And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

    Im not going to call Christianity barbaric because i have more respect, Christianity, Islam, Judaism is peaceful, what you fail to notice is that death is only upon those who cause mischief or trouble, for a long period of time.

    All holy book need common sense to go with it, e.g look at the RED qoute for a fact i know it doesn't mean once a child tells his mother "shut up" kill him, it is more for extreme purposes, if a child swears at his mother constant, and even try's to attack or his father, like some children do in the USA, then this is the last resort.


    [Exodus 22:18-20]
    "You shall not permit a sorceress to live.

    “Whoever lies with an animal shall be put to death.

    “Whoever sacrifices to any god, other than the Lord alone, shall be devoted to destruction.


    Explain this? ok i will.

    1- Kill all magicians -David blame will just teleport to a different location -
    2- Kill all who have ?sex? with animals o.o [Not sure what that means]
    3- Kill all who dont worship the same as Christians...

    Ok, so see how Christians use "Islam God is barbaric"? what does this say...Christian God is barbaric.

    BUT WAIT!

    These Qoutes are also inside the Quran.
    What Christians flop at doing is checking if the qoutes they pick from the bible are in the Quran, and what do you know? They are!


    [Exodus 22:1-3]
    If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. ... If he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft

    Rich thieves = get away with it. poor thieves become slaves.

    Quran = rich or poor, male or female, gets punished.

    And Mohammed PBUH was illiterate so there was no possible way he copied from the Bible, also the oldest Quran found is 20years after the prophets death and its in PERFECT condition.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Red: So, do you have any proof that the quran is actually the word of god? You say that the angel gabriel gave it to him, but i see no proof of that outside of "its written in the quran." In contrast, i could write a book, say it was given to me by god, and then if anyone asked for proof i could say "its in the book".

    Blue. I don't understand, how do you expect them to have a house, or means of transportation, or food, if they don't get paid? They have to show up at the church every day, so they can't have another job.

    In the old testament the tribes and nation supported the priest financially and with a home/food, it was the same as getting paid.

    :/ who and why should i care about "pastor chris"? So what if he makes 2mil. You have the heads of scientology making a lot more, but you don't see me complaining.
    1- I like the format

    2- 10% can be given, but when it comes to people that do miracles it turns into a JOKE, i mean i used pastor chris as an example. 2million, and his charity record is 1 to none...he talks about giving charity but doesn't give it him self!

    He claims to do healing but when undercover to expose him he gets his security to escort you out? LOL
    Last edited by Visiblegaming; 11-13-2010 at 06:36 AM.

  12. #42
    Casavir's Avatar
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    EXODUS!OLD TESTAMENT!
    the old testament was formed,a) from the prophet's sayings,to tell us about the coming of messiah
    b) to stop Jews from killing each other for small things.
    the New Testament is where we're based,the old testament is in the bible for the Prophet's saying parts.
    I said barbaric when I was in ,therefore I'm sorry.
    and barbarian isn't as bad as it sounds actually,the meaning changed in english :P
    It's the foreigners.Whoever isn't Greek,is a barbarian,the ancient Greeks said(meh,racists :P )

    The old testament was made for the Jews.
    I remember my Theologist in school,such a nice guy.
    He once told me,exactly why the old testament was made,why it says that stuff etc because I had the same question.
    'Isn't the old testament evil since it has so much killing and stuff inside it?' I asked him two years ago.
    He said : The Jews,before the OT was made and the laws by Mooses,for example burned someone house because his donkey had eaten a grape from someone else's vineyard.
    Therefore,the eye for an eye law and all the rest was given to the Jews,so they wouldn't be so ferocious.

    The OT wasn't made for Christians.it was made for the Israeli tribes of the 10-12th century bc(not sure about exact time,help me out mouzie )
    Becuase they were...too bloody.

    One last time in case you didn't understand it.
    OT=80% made for Jews.the other is the prophets,which you never quote because they speak for the love of God to all human kind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Armalite42 View Post
    I am the sperm that won
    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    Surprisingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    whoever made this thread... you just got owned by Casavir...
    Ὦ ξεῖν', ἀγγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις ὅτι τῇδε κείμεθα, τοῖς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.

    50% Spartan,50% Macedonian.100% Greek

  13. #43
    Visiblegaming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casavir View Post
    EXODUS!OLD TESTAMENT!
    the old testament was formed,a) from the prophet's sayings,to tell us about the coming of messiah
    b) to stop Jews from killing each other for small things.
    the New Testament is where we're based,the old testament is in the bible for the Prophet's saying parts.
    I said barbaric when I was in ,therefore I'm sorry.
    and barbarian isn't as bad as it sounds actually,the meaning changed in english :P
    It's the foreigners.Whoever isn't Greek,is a barbarian,the ancient Greeks said(meh,racists :P )

    The old testament was made for the Jews.
    I remember my Theologist in school,such a nice guy.
    He once told me,exactly why the old testament was made,why it says that stuff etc because I had the same question.
    'Isn't the old testament evil since it has so much killing and stuff inside it?' I asked him two years ago.
    He said : The Jews,before the OT was made and the laws by Mooses,for example burned someone house because his donkey had eaten a grape from someone else's vineyard.
    Therefore,the eye for an eye law and all the rest was given to the Jews,so they wouldn't be so ferocious.

    The OT wasn't made for Christians.it was made for the Israeli tribes of the 10-12th century bc(not sure about exact time,help me out mouzie )
    Becuase they were...too bloody.

    One last time in case you didn't understand it.
    OT=80% made for Jews.the other is the prophets,which you never quote because they speak for the love of God to all human kind.
    Killing innocent people in Islam is like killing the whole humanity.

    "We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"

    The only time the quran talks about killing is during war, that is the Only time.

    And Just to inform you i am a moderator on "http://www.answering-christianity.com" need any answers Just ask me, this doesn't speak about christianity but it gives answers to Christians who have questions on Islam. username on here is: Salahudeen

  14. #44
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visiblegaming View Post

    1- I like the format

    2- 10% can be given, but when it comes to people that do miracles it turns into a JOKE, i mean i used pastor chris as an example. 2million, and his charity record is 1 to none...he talks about giving charity but doesn't give it him self!

    He claims to do healing but when undercover to expose him he gets his security to escort you out? LOL
    Oh gee, a corrupt guy in the world.

    Big woop.

    :/


  15. #45
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visiblegaming View Post
    2- 10% can be given, but when it comes to people that do miracles it turns into a JOKE, i mean i used pastor chris as an example. 2million, and his charity record is 1 to none...he talks about giving charity but doesn't give it him self!

    He claims to do healing but when undercover to expose him he gets his security to escort you out? LOL
    I agree with you here in the sense that maybe this pastor is exploiting the Word of God for his own personal gain,
    There are plenty of corrupt teachers..

    but I can also say..
    What about extremist clerics teaching children that it glorifies Allah,
    when they kill in his name?

    It is unfair to use individual examples of "Teachers"
    because the reality is that they are just regular men,
    and they have the same sin nature as you and I have.
    We cannot make judgments upon our faiths through the actions of a few stray dogs.

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