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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzie View Post
    Christianization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There is too much to explain, read this article about it. Yeah it is wiki, but it a good source, not the best.





    .
    Ah ok, I wasn't sure how far back you were going.
    The Roman empire really exploited Christianity and used it as a tool for total control, I really can't deny that,
    but it just shows how jaded these rulers were to use the Old Testament laws opposed to what Jesus came to teach.
    The Vatican started in Rome obviously, and until present day
    they still defile Christ's teachings.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 11-22-2010 at 03:32 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Ah ok, I wasn't sure how far back you were going.
    The Roman empire really exploited Christianity and used it as a tool for total control, I really can't deny that,
    but it just shows how jaded these rulers were to use the Old Testament laws opposed to what Jesus came to teach.
    The Vatican started in Ropme obviously, and until present day
    they still defile Christ's teachings.
    What are you implying here? I'm curious, what exactly are you trying to say with: using the old testament to opposed what Jesus pbuh came to teach?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwtog View Post
    What are you implying here? I'm curious, what exactly are you trying to say with: using the old testament to opposed what Jesus pbuh came to teach?
    What I am saying is Christ taught tolerance,
    But he gave direct guidance on how you may find heaven through him.
    The old rulers that spread Christianity through violence were not doing God's will through the teachings of Christ. You will see many times in the Old testament where God commands men to destroy idols, sack and destroy villages that practice Pagan worship, and the majority of this predates the time of Moses. There are many confusing passages in the OT, and I do sometimes wonder if there was any alteration in those books.
    If God is a benevolent God,
    than why use people as his hitmen? Either way, Christians abide by the Ten Commandments, as did Christ, but Christians follow the New Testament and what the lord Jesus came to teach.

    Luke 9:52-56: "...they did not receive him...And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, You know not what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."

    John 4:7-27: "There came a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus said unto her, Give me a drink...Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, ask a drink of me, for I am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that said to thee, Give me a drink; thou would have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water...Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father...And upon this came his disciples, and marveled that he talked with the woman..."


    Romans 2:14-16"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

    Bottom line is that any "Christian" that has spread Christianity through nations by force and committing murder or any other heinous deeds either didn't understand the scriptures, or they blatantly exploited the teachings to rule through oppression, and not truth.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 11-22-2010 at 04:04 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    What I am saying is Christ taught tolerance,
    But he gave direct guidance on how you may find heaven through him.
    The old rulers that spread Christianity through violence were not doing God's will through the teachings of Christ. You will see many times in the Old testament where God commands men to destroy idols, sack and destroy villages that practice Pagan worship, and the majority of this predates the time of Moses. There are many confusing passages in the OT, and I do sometimes wonder if there was any alteration in those books.
    If God is a benevolent God,
    than why use people as his hitmen? Either way, Christians abide by the Ten Commandments, as did Christ, but Christians follow the New Testament and what the lord Jesus came to teach.

    Luke 9:52-56: "...they did not receive him...And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, You know not what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."

    John 4:7-27: "There came a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus said unto her, Give me a drink...Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, ask a drink of me, for I am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that said to thee, Give me a drink; thou would have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water...Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father...And upon this came his disciples, and marveled that he talked with the woman..."


    Romans 2:14-16"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

    Bottom line is that any "Christian" that has spread the Christianity through nations by force and comitting murder or other heinous deeds either didn't understand the scriptures, or they blatantly exploited the teachings to rule through oppression, and not truth.
    Jesus the truth, the light and the way, i believe this of all prophets

    you can't find god without believing in all prophets. believing in one but not the other isn't enough, they all connect.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    What I am saying is Christ taught tolerance,
    But he gave direct guidance on how you may find heaven through him.
    The old rulers that spread Christianity through violence were not doing God's will through the teachings of Christ. You will see many times in the Old testament where God commands men to destroy idols, sack and destroy villages that practice Pagan worship, and the majority of this predates the time of Moses. There are many confusing passages in the OT, and I do sometimes wonder if there was any alteration in those books.
    If God is a benevolent God,
    than why use people as his hitmen? Either way, Christians abide by the Ten Commandments, as did Christ, but Christians follow the New Testament and what the lord Jesus came to teach.

    Luke 9:52-56: "...they did not receive him...And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, You know not what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."

    John 4:7-27: "There came a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus said unto her, Give me a drink...Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, ask a drink of me, for I am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that said to thee, Give me a drink; thou would have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water...Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father...And upon this came his disciples, and marveled that he talked with the woman..."


    Romans 2:14-16"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

    Bottom line is that any "Christian" that has spread Christianity through nations by force and committing murder or any other heinous deeds either didn't understand the scriptures, or they blatantly exploited the teachings to rule through oppression, and not truth.
    The first part: Is it perhaps possible that they misunderstood the teachings? That they weren't supposed to be hitmen and they just misinterpreted the books? Maybe there isn't being said destroy litteraly, but destroy the concept to stimulate the concept of ONE God?

    Most religions have spread with force and compulsion in the beginning I believe, the freedom of choice came later on. could be wrong though.

    Also what is meant by living water? I don't fully understand that verse.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwtog View Post
    The first part: Is it perhaps possible that they misunderstood the teachings? That they weren't supposed to be hitmen and they just misinterpreted the books? Maybe there isn't being said destroy litteraly, but destroy the concept to stimulate the concept of ONE God?

    Most religions have spread with force and compulsion in the beginning I believe, the freedom of choice came later on. could be wrong though.

    Also what is meant by living water? I don't fully understand that verse.
    Christ had a way of turning simple encounters into a great spiritual parable.
    Living waters in the physical plain would mean, streams, rivers or oceans.
    Not a stagnant pool. I believe the lesson here, is if this women thirsted for the knowledge and spiritual guidance of God, he would have given her the "living waters".

    When you go further into the verse Jesus says:
    "Whosoever drinks of this water shall thirst again,"

    "But whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."

    Jesus was referring to spiritual thirst,
    He was showing her that through him,
    and written word, that spiritual thirst can be satisfied.

  7. #37
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    Ugh, visible, let me just point this out to you.

    What Islam says about Jesus is wrong.

    You keep relying on Islamic sources for Jesus, and thats why ethereal keeps proving you wrong.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Ugh, visible, let me just point this out to you.

    What Islam says about Jesus is wrong.

    You keep relying on Islamic sources for Jesus, and thats why ethereal keeps proving you wrong.
    So Islamic sources are almost never correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Christ had a way of turning simple encounters into a great spiritual parable.
    Living waters in the physical plain would mean, streams, rivers or oceans.
    Not a stagnant pool. I believe the lesson here, is if this women thirsted for the knowledge and spiritual guidance of God, he would have given her the "living waters".

    When you go further into the verse Jesus says:
    "Whosoever drinks of this water shall thirst again,"

    "But whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."

    Jesus was referring to spiritual thirst,
    He was showing her that through him,
    and written word, that spiritual thirst can be satisfied.
    Ah, nicely explained, I understand now .

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Ugh, visible, let me just point this out to you.

    What Islam says about Jesus is wrong.

    You keep relying on Islamic sources for Jesus, and thats why ethereal keeps proving you wrong.
    Just like how Budhist say christians are wrong..Jews say christians are wrong, Muslim say christians are Partly wrong.

    DOESN'T MEAN ITS WRONG.

    Nobody can be 100% certain about faith, there will always be doubt, and God likes it when you fight doubt. i have had doubts and faught them off with knowledge after learning more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Visiblegaming View Post
    Just like how Budhist say christians are wrong..Jews say christians are wrong, Muslim say christians are Partly wrong.

    DOESN'T MEAN ITS WRONG.

    Nobody can be 100% certain about faith, there will always be doubt, and God likes it when you fight doubt. i have had doubts and faught them off with knowledge after learning more.
    Ok let me just say YES IT DOES. In this particular case, Islam is wrong about Jesus.

    Visible, your mixing two religions together when you talk about Jesus, which is why you idiots never understand why Jesus died, and all that christianity entails.

    -.- I mean really, a guy writes a book, says Jesus didn't die 500 years after, and you believe it?

    What fucking morons.

    I mean wow, your more similar to mormons than christians by far.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Ok let me just say YES IT DOES. In this particular case, Islam is wrong about Jesus.

    Visible, your mixing two religions together when you talk about Jesus, which is why you idiots never understand why Jesus died, and all that christianity entails.

    -.- I mean really, a guy writes a book, says Jesus didn't die 500 years after, and you believe it?

    What fucking morons.

    I mean wow, your more similar to mormons than christians by far.
    OMFG GOD DIED!? WHAT NOW!!??!?!?!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwtog View Post
    OMFG GOD DIED!? WHAT NOW!!??!?!?!
    Hhahaha! this was my reaction when i was like 10years old..and when i asked the pastor if Jesus was part of God how could he die? the pastor shut up infront of the thousands of people. [Mega church].

    Now i look back at it, i laugh all the time. God? dieng? HA!. but whatever makes ya happy.

    Did you know some pagans worshipped people I.E pharoahs and believed they had holy spirits? reminds me of jesus.

    Did you know horus did miracles, born of a virgin, crusified, died for 3 days..and resurrected O.o? <- i find this intresting. (I AM STILL DOING RESEARCH ON THIS)

    But meh, if people like to believe in something that they seek comfort it, i say let em

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visiblegaming View Post
    Hhahaha! this was my reaction when i was like 10years old..and when i asked the pastor if Jesus was part of God how could he die? the pastor shut up infront of the thousands of people. [Mega church].

    Now i look back at it, i laugh all the time. God? dieng? HA!. but whatever makes ya happy.

    Did you know some pagans worshipped people I.E pharoahs and believed they had holy spirits? reminds me of jesus.

    Did you know horus did miracles, born of a virgin, crusified, died for 3 days..and resurrected O.o? <- i find this intresting. (I AM STILL DOING RESEARCH ON THIS)

    But meh, if people like to believe in something that they seek comfort it, i say let em
    Could you perhaps PM me some articles, that sounds interesting.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visiblegaming View Post
    Hhahaha! this was my reaction when i was like 10years old..and when i asked the pastor if Jesus was part of God how could he die? the pastor shut up infront of the thousands of people. [Mega church].

    Now i look back at it, i laugh all the time. God? dieng? HA!. but whatever makes ya happy.

    Did you know some pagans worshipped people I.E pharoahs and believed they had holy spirits? reminds me of jesus.

    Did you know horus did miracles, born of a virgin, crusified, died for 3 days..and resurrected O.o? <- i find this intresting. (I AM STILL DOING RESEARCH ON THIS)

    But meh, if people like to believe in something that they seek comfort it, i say let em
    I love how all your responses end in a statement which can easily be said for Islam.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post


    I love how all your responses end in a statement which can easily be said for Islam.
    What? sorry that makes no sence to me, end in statement? how is that got to do with anything..?' the way its structured don't mean nothing.

    -God bless you.

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