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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post



    You really go off the deep end lol.

    If you think that America pre-empted pearl harbour, well you just might be clinically retarded.

    How do we debate with a guy who can't even admit pearl harbour? Whats next "america made the nazi's kill jews"? Derp this guy is the gullible one here.
    Actually, Prescott Bush and a Rockefeller owned oil company were 2 of the biggest backings to the Nazi's money and oil supplies, so yes technically by extension they did aide them in killing jews.


    Quote Originally Posted by nevs666 View Post
    I honestly can't comprehend the amount of sheer stupidity you just posted. Where to begin. Let's start with the Hijackers. Before I start on the actual debunking, let me ask you this. If the government did in fact cause 911, why on earth wouldn't they just make them 14 Iraqis giving them a airtight excuse to invade, instead they make them from all around the middle east and abroad? So now they had to jump through hoops to invade? Well, now lets begin. When you say they were found "alive and well" I am going to make the assumption that you are talking about the BBC reporting that the hijackers were found alive in the middle east. RIGHT after the attacks took place. This has now been closed as mistaken identity's by the publications involved, due to them being common Arabic names and some spelling similarities.

    (You don't need to watch the first video unless you think NIST claimed that the steel melted, and it isn't a two hour long video, it's 3-4 min).

    There was no explosion before the planes hit the buildings, I wouldn't have to explain any of this to you if had looked at the issue on both sides. Instead you make one sided arguments based on ignorance that had been PROVEN, let me say that again, PROVEN wrong. You didn't answer my question on who hit the buildings and you didn't answer if you had read the NIST report or not. Regardless I think I have my answer, you are disagreeing with something that you haven't even read. You are just plain stupid. I'm not even going to respond to your WW1 and WW2 comments. If you hadn't noticed you syrup sucking Canadians were in both those wars too. You guys were involved in WW1 before we were, and WW2 was a fight for freedom in Europe. If you think those wars were fought for money, your a fucking moron.



    Not imposable.
    First of all, I don't think Canada is any better than America, let's get that out of the way. Second of all, if all of what you're saying is true then why couldn't any of this simply be said by the government when asked MULTIPLE times on MULTIPLE occasions? I wonder why....(and no that wasn't all done during cleanup because the photo that most "conspiracy theorists" use is from minutes after the buildings collapse). Let's say you did disprove 1 of the many arguments that still doesn't mean that it wasn't a terrorist attack that the government just made good use of, and that still doesn't disprove the MANY other arguments. If everything was this simple why was everything kept in secrecy and hidden from the people. If it was all this simple they could have shut up many conspiracy theorists very quickly by just revealing the "TRUTH" to the people. And third of all, the last war fought by America that was actually for peace and a better quality of life was the American Revolution, everything past that was complete bullshit. (Especially wars after the Federal Reserve was made in 1913.)

    Here, I ask you a question now. If your government is filled with such good, nice people with such a care for their citizens then why does the patriot act exist?
    Last edited by scotbud123; 05-04-2012 at 08:55 PM.








     





















  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotbud123 View Post
    Actually, Prescott Bush and a Rockefeller owned oil company were 2 of the biggest backings to the Nazi's money and oil supplies, so yes technically by extension they did aide them in killing jews.
    you could say ibm was the biggest help to them

    "I really screwed up this time."
    Jeffrey Dahmer


  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotbud123 View Post
    Actually, Prescott Bush and a Rockefeller owned oil company were 2 of the biggest backings to the Nazi's money and oil supplies, so yes technically by extension they did aide them in killing jews.




    First of all, I don't think Canada is any better than America, let's get that out of the way. Second of all, if all of what you're saying is true then why couldn't any of this simply be said by the government when asked MULTIPLE times on MULTIPLE occasions? I wonder why....(and no that wasn't all done during cleanup because the photo that most "conspiracy theorists" use is from minutes after the buildings collapse). Let's say you did disprove 1 of the many arguments that still doesn't mean that it wasn't a terrorist attack that the government just made good use of, and that still doesn't disprove the MANY other arguments. If everything was this simple why was everything kept in secrecy and hidden from the people. If it was all this simple they could have shut up many conspiracy theorists very quickly by just revealing the "TRUTH" to the people. And third of all, the last war fought by America that was actually for peace and a better quality of life was the American Revolution, everything past that was complete bullshit. (Especially wars after the Federal Reserve was made in 1913.)

    Here, I ask you a question now. If your government is filled with such good, nice people with such a care for their citizens then why does the patriot act exist?
    Why answer them again? All these nuts have to do is read the NIST report. Right, they took those pictures within minuets of the attack, clear as day pictures even though a dust cloud engulfed most of the southern end of Manhattan within a minute of collapse. When did I ever claim the government is filled with good people? I fucking HATE the government just like every red blood American should, the founding fathers didn't even like government. However, that does not mean I am going to mindlessly blame them for everything.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevs666 View Post
    Why answer them again? All these nuts have to do is read the NIST report. Right, they took those pictures within minuets of the attack, clear as day pictures even though a dust cloud engulfed most of the southern end of Manhattan within a minute of collapse. When did I ever claim the government is filled with good people? I fucking HATE the government just like every red blood American should, the founding fathers didn't even like government. However, that does not mean I am going to mindlessly blame them for everything.
    That's the thing though, the NIST report doesn't cover every argument raised, and it never will because there's some questions they simply can not answer. (Without, you know, admitting to either knowing about or taking part in 9\11 beforehand. I mean for fucks sake, the US was even warned by other countries that rumors of an attack like that were going around and to raise security and not a single fucking thing was done.)
    Last edited by scotbud123; 05-04-2012 at 09:27 PM.








     





















  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotbud123 View Post
    That's the thing though, the NIST report doesn't cover every argument raised, and it never will because there's some questions they simply can not answer. (Without, you know, admitting to either knowing about or taking part in 9\11 beforehand. I mean for fucks sake, the US was even warned by other countries that rumors of an attack like that were going around and to raise security and not a single fucking thing was done.)
    Every conspiracy argument that I have seen has already had an answer to it and they just didn't look, been debunked, or is just so fucking stupid that it doesn't even deserve an answer. What do you expect them to do, put all of New York, the financial capital of our country, under marshal law with jets flying over head just because of a rumor? Even if there was a suspicion of an attack how would we know when or where it would take place?
    "If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest."

    -Benjamin Franklin
    ^One of our (our as in American no offence to non Americans) Founding Fathers and one of my personal heroes.

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevs666 View Post
    Every conspiracy argument that I have seen has already had an answer to it and they just didn't look, been debunked, or is just so fucking stupid that it doesn't even deserve an answer. What do you expect them to do, put all of New York, the financial capital of our country, under marshal law with jets flying over head just because of a rumor? Even if there was a suspicion of an attack how would we know when or where it would take place?
    Dude, I get where you're coming from 100%. I swear if you just watch Zeitgeist you'll understand where I'm coming from. It's not just about 9\11, it's about everything as a whole being fucked up. Trust me, I promise it will be the best 2 hours of your life spent on a movie.

    I'm not saying it's going to change your opinion, but it will help you see and understand where I'm coming from as well.








     





















  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotbud123 View Post
    Dude, I get where you're coming from 100%. I swear if you just watch Zeitgeist you'll understand where I'm coming from. It's not just about 9\11, it's about everything as a whole being fucked up. Trust me, I promise it will be the best 2 hours of your life spent on a movie.

    I'm not saying it's going to change your opinion, but it will help you see and understand where I'm coming from as well.
    I hate to break it to you, but Zeitgeist is riddled with misinformation..
    I watched it years ago..and I knew even before researching afterwards,
    that alot of Peter Joseph's ridiculous claims about links between religions was complete shit.
    I pretty much went on to find other parts that were lies too..
    The only thing that was even accurate and not speculation was the corruption of politics around the world,
    but it doesn't really take a rocket scientist, or require you to watch a shitty dramatic documentary to figure that out.

    You asked every one to watch this video..
    kk..well here is something you can check out.
    Zeitgeist, the movie Debunked - Introduction - Zeitgeist Exposed - Skeptic Project

    Pretty much takes that movie apart piece by piece.

  8. #383
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    Response

    Well, I have read the entire thing as a whole and although he makes SOME pretty good points, a lot of what he said is either the same thing that he insults Peter for doing (which is hypocritical), technicalities (which he makes a lot of grammar mistakes and etc. that can be poked through too), things that actually SUPPORT Zeitgeist, or things that weren't even in the final version of the movie, so therefor have no reason to be debated. I took some notes while watching it, they were a LOT so I tried to cut down to more important ones, so here they are.

    (Some of these things are quotes from him that I will talk about and some are things I noticed about what he's saying in general that I want to talk about, these are in the order I took them in so they may not make COMPLETE sense until you read everything.)

     
    "this is why the Tea Party movement is much more successful" I REALLY lol'd when I read this one, but this is more of a matter of opinion so it's kind of excusable.

    "The movement is perceived as anti-religious, this is in part due to the first film, but also because Peter Joseph and hardcore members still promote Acharya S as some kind of super-scholar. Anti-religion didn't work for the Communist Party in the United States, and it sure as hell isn't going to work for TZM" I kind of don't want to believe in someone who believes in the OBVIOUS lie (even things that weren't said in Zeitgeist) of religion.

    The "Cost of Movie" argument. The point he makes about this is null, when Peter said that he didn't WANT to make profit from it he never meant that if he did he would turn it down. Who in their right mind would do that? If you're making money off of something (even if you didn't intend to) you're still making money. Money makes the world go round man.

    "The first part is fairly accurate, but when he begins talking about stars, there is something I would like to call into question. He claims that they "catalogued celestial groups", while this is true for some civilizations, others such as the Inca, actually categorized the dark spots, not the stars themselves" This is a stupid technicality, you know EXACTLY what he meant and you're just being a bitch about it. For the most part, he was still right. I want to note that this guy takes advantage of technicalities like this all the time, I just don't have them ALL here.

    "but I have no direct source at this time for that/so this isn't a real piece of undeniable proof" He does this a LOT. Most of his source links are broken and he uses this line a LOT. (he does exactly what he critiques the movie for doing, which is kind of funny.)

    "The red text was cut out of the final version of the film by the maker" Then why the hell would you include it in your "debunking" other than to have more of an excuse to make more pointless personal jabs.

    "Indeed, there are many similarities between the story of the Ark and various flood stories that have appeared in nearly every culture and religion in history. I do not deny the similarities here, by all accounts the story of the ark is probably heavily influenced from a Babylonian tale or a direct copy." Thanks for agreeing with what the movie was saying, that Christianity copied this.

    "I imagine a lot of ancient people used tablets to write laws, considering they couldn't get poster board and markers at their local Walgreen's." That wasn't the point from what the movie said, and that was just a cheap stupid ad hominem, what are we 5?

    "It appears as though he just wants to prove badly that Jesus didn't exist." Maybe that's because he DIDN'T. (And if he did he did NOT have the powers people claimed he did.)

    "As shown, the situation is far more complex the the film maker implies it is" This guy is a huge hypocrite, he complains about the movie being too "overfilled" with stuff, but when the creator shortens certain things down as to not make the film longer than it has to be he complains, wtf?

    "however since I watched it again, I have not seen this. However, since I saw it, I will debunk it." So, it wasn't in the film? So either you're crazy and you imagined it or you're lying, good job.

    "I just have to wonder why someone that is committing suicide the next day would need $100,000." This one is easy (although all of you "true" patriots will think the reason is stupid), to give to his family.

    "Satam al-Suqami's passport was indeed found, reportedly in the vicinity of Vesey Street, before the towers collapsed . He was not the only one who's passport was found, in fact the passports of Ziad Jarrah and Saeed al-Ghamdi are reported to have been found at the crash site of United Flight 93." So what you're saying is that passports can remain completely in-tact from a plain crash like that? Yeah.....no.

    "I did brighten up the picture a bit to see if I could get a better look, but you could barely see. However, I watched it when it was originally on television and there was no doubt then who it was." As for the first part of that, you had to mess with "evidence" in order to prove yourself right, hmm. And as for the second part, if you watched it on TV then OBVIOUSLY there's no doubt that it HAS to be true, no WAY the people lying to you would try to make their case seem right.

    "unreliable "witnesses"" So because people saw something you didn't want them to see they are AUTOMATICALLY "unreliable"? Why? Because you say so?

    "The NIST has not released their findings on building seven just yet, but when they do, be sure it will be posted here as quickly as possible." It's 2012 bro, wake up, it's never happening.

    "The controller told his supervisor that he thought something was seriously wrong with the plane, although neither suspected a hijacking." Derp...this just proves that either A. The American government hires complete derps, or B. It was an inside job. Either of those aren't that good.

    "First, there were many causes of the American Revolution, a big one was "taxation without representation", and indeed Benjamin Franklin did comment later in 1800 stating that he believed the ridiculous money system imposed on the colonies was a cause for the revolution. [...] It is worth noting, that not all Central Banks are privately owned, nor do all Central Banks issue Fiat currency (money based on several things, such as payment of taxes and credible enforcement), some do back their money with gold." The first part of that agrees with what Zeitgeist says and the second part is a completely irrelevant to the topic attempt to debunk this when he failed everywhere else.

    Most of what he said about the federal reserve in a bad attempt to "debunk" the movie was pretty wrong.

    He tried to disprove a quote because the word "A" was changed to "Our" when the president was talking about the U.S.A. Obviously not nit-picking at ALL.

    When he can't make an arguement to disprove something he goes around in stupid cirlces for no reason saying "it's not wrong, but you can be the judge of whether it's right".

    "I was unable to find a source for this quote, I have come to believe it is fabricated; however there is no doubt Congressman Lindbergh was against the Federal Reserve Act." The first part is greatly hypocritical, we have to listen to YOUR beliefs but as soon as someone else has a belief you don't agree with they are automatically wrong? The second part simply agrees with Zeitgeist again, thanks.

    His "The Federal Reserve is Private" "debunking" was him basically saying, it's not private per say, but it is private.

    "Why is the next tool war? I thought you said that the Federal Reserve gave people power to bring entire societies to their knees. What happened to that?" This guy obviously doesn't read\watch\listen well. The movie basically said that money = power (which no one can really dispute). War makes money, ergo more war = more money = more power. Duh....

    "and no one had nothing to worry about." Just a funny double negative, one among MANY grammar mistakes he made. But as soon as someone else makes a mistake it proves how wrong they are, right?

    "It is true that there was selling-buying of goods between I.G. Farben and Standard Oil [...] there was some trading going on with the enemy [...] it proves that people will sell to the bad guys to make more money than anything else." Thank you for agreeing with Zeitgeist 100%.

    "This is based on fact [...] The Union Banking Corporation was founded by a Dutch bank that was formed and controlled by a German steel magnate and Nazi supporter Fritz Thyssen [...] Prescott Bush was a director of the UBC [...] he was a member of this company [...] many Americans had mild and heavy ties with the Nazis and their beliefs, such as Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh (the pilot)." Thank you for agreeing with Zeitgeist 100% and even giving MORE reasons why the movie is right.

    "the Patriot Act does potentially violate civil liberties [...] I really don't want to voice my own opinions in these articles, or at least try to avoid it when I can, I will say that I do not agree with the previsions in the Patriot Act. [...] it can be used for evil to control all Americans." Thank you for agreeing with Zeitgeist 100%.

    "I agree that there is a lot of misleading politics to keep peoples minds off of the issues, e.g. making big deals about who the President is sleeping with in order to keep people from criticizing congress." Thank you for agreeing with Zeitgeist 100%.

    Half his reference links are broken, and most of the ones that aren't are just leading to private owned websites (just like the "conspiracy sites" that he claims have no merit.)

    "I honestly believe the "stupefying downward spiral" is related to too much media saturation" Thank you for agreeing with Zeitgeist 100%.

    "because of the trust people around the world have in the US economy" I lol'd really, REALLY, fucking hard when I read this one. I think the only economy around the world that is trusted less than the US is Greece's. (I'm Greek so even if this is sad to admit it's true :S).

    "I agree, absolutely power corrupts absolutely" Thank you for agreeing with Zeitgeist 100%.

    "So, they are going to issue the cards, and then do it all over again with RFID? Why do that, why not do the RFID first? Wouldn't that be more cost-effective for them? I mean, they do care about money more than anything, so why would they waste it?" This one is also one that should be pretty obvious BUT the simple reason is because most people would not accept the full fledged chip right away, but if it's already been eased in by the card then people are more prone to be used to that type of thing and say "eh, it's not that bad".

    "I hope to god that nobody figures out the real truth." Thanks for showing what a grade A faggot you really are.


    All in all, I think even if he DID raise some pretty good points, it doesn't completely "debunk" Zeitgeist and he's just really a very butthurt kid who's mad because Peter hurt his e-peen.

    P.S: tl;dr? Then read it or stfu. <3
    Last edited by scotbud123; 05-05-2012 at 04:11 AM.








     





















  9. #384
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    Lol that site just owned your zeitgeist. Man this is funny.


    Quite literally its sad how wrong zeitgeist is about sooooo many basic things. Hell he didn't even get jesus' birthday right lol.


  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Lol that site just owned your zeitgeist. Man this is funny.


    Quite literally its sad how wrong zeitgeist is about sooooo many basic things. Hell he didn't even get jesus' birthday right lol.
    It didn't really "own" anything. And I never said that Zeitgeist is the all and mighty, I just said it puts some things into a different perspective which it does. Not everything about it is right, but not nearly all of his "debunking" is right either. Just refer to my last post for MANY examples. (P.S: Zeitgeist is not "my Zeitgeist".)








     





















  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotbud123 View Post
    It didn't really "own" anything. And I never said that Zeitgeist is the all and mighty, I just said it puts some things into a different perspective which it does. Not everything about it is right, but not nearly all of his "debunking" is right either. Just refer to my last post for MANY examples. (P.S: Zeitgeist is not "my Zeitgeist".)
    :/ put things into perspective? Like what, non-factual incorrect points should be listened to?

    Sorry bud, you are done here.


  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    :/ put things into perspective? Like what, non-factual incorrect points should be listened to?

    Sorry bud, you are done here.
    Even if it's obvious as hell, there's one fact that Zeitgeist as a whole DOES have that IS true, it may not prove it the right way but the government IS still corrupt as fuck. And that's the bottom line.








     





















  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotbud123 View Post
    the government IS still corrupt as fuck. And that's the bottom line.
    no shit

    "I really screwed up this time."
    Jeffrey Dahmer


  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotbud123 View Post
    Even if it's obvious as hell, there's one fact that Zeitgeist as a whole DOES have that IS true, it may not prove it the right way but the government IS still corrupt as fuck. And that's the bottom line.
    I know not a government which has remained uncorrupted in the history of mankind. But i do not see the point in a movie that goes "WELL [insert false "facts"] the goverment is corrupt".

    Honestly its nothing new, and when you really don't have any proof you might as well be saying "man will sin" for generic purposes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    I know not a government which has remained uncorrupted in the history of mankind. But i do not see the point in a movie that goes "WELL [insert false "facts"] the goverment is corrupt".

    Honestly its nothing new, and when you really don't have any proof you might as well be saying "man will sin" for generic purposes.
    The point of the matter is that people that bag on Islam are hypocrites because most of them are Christian, and Islam is just as bad now as Christianity was in the dark ages....hell Christianity was even worse at times. Don't judge an entire religion of people based on a few douche bag extremists. I don't bag on all of Christianity just because the Westboro Baptist Church is a bunch of homophone dicks.








     





















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