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  1. #16
    ARSENALMAN's Avatar
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    Islam, Christianity and Judaism do have the same god. In the Quran it talks about Jesus, Noah, Abraham and moses. Muslims also believe that Jesus is a prophet but that he is not he son of god. Since those people were sent by god doesnt it mean that they all believe in the same god. And Islam doesnt spread hate and violence. There are around 2billion muslims if they were taught hate the world would have ended. What the terrorists believe in is Wahabism which is different from Islam.

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    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARSENALMAN View Post
    Islam, Christianity and Judaism do have the same god. In the Quran it talks about Jesus, Noah, Abraham and moses. Muslims also believe that Jesus is a prophet but that he is not he son of god. Since those people were sent by god doesnt it mean that they all believe in the same god. And Islam doesnt spread hate and violence. There are around 2billion muslims if they were taught hate the world would have ended. What the terrorists believe in is Wahabism which is different from Islam.
    You understand english right? The quran does not state that jesus is the SON of god and god himself. So NO they don't.

    Jews don't believe ANYTHING muhammed said, nor do they believe he had any interraction, basically muhammed is just making up a god to fufill his stuff.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Uhm hate to break it to you on the hate and violence stuff, but Islam was created from the point of the sword. Its a war religion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    You understand english right? The quran does not state that jesus is the SON of god and god himself. So NO they don't.

    Jews don't believe ANYTHING muhammed said, nor do they believe he had any interraction, basically muhammed is just making up a god to fufill his stuff.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Uhm hate to break it to you on the hate and violence stuff, but Islam was created from the point of the sword. Its a war religion.
    What youre saying is the comparison between the Quran, Bible and torah. Im talking about the point that they have the same god. Unlike other religions those 3 religions are connected by stories that are in them. The god that sent Jesus and abraham is obviously the same god that sent sent jesus and abraham in the Quran because theyre the same prophets.

    Wasnt Christianity created from the point of the sword? Was there no crusades in the middle ages killing thousands of innocent muslims? Christianity started it.
    Last edited by ARSENALMAN; 01-29-2012 at 08:12 AM.

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    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARSENALMAN View Post
    What youre saying is the comparison between the Quran, Bible and torah. Im talking about the point that they have the same god. Unlike other religions those 3 religions are connected by stories that are in them. The god that sent Jesus and abraham is obviously the same god that sent sent jesus and abraham in the Quran because theyre the same prophets.

    Wasnt Christianity created from the point of the sword? Was there no crusades in the middle ages killing thousands of innocent muslims? Christianity started it.
    They can't have the same God if they don't believe in him.. *Facepalm*

    Muslims don't believe jesus is God right? So they don't have the same god as christians who believe that Jesus is god.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Christianity's "crusades" were 200 years AFTER jesus had been crucified.(Well, the crusades were actually hundreds after Rome adopted it but since you know jack shit on history, i'll just give you a hint in saying what rome did). Also to be fair, they were more to do with rome but thats another story. But i guess you could say they were at one time a war religion, they just didn't spread because of it while Jesus was alive or even while his disciples were.


    Muhammeds "holy wars" were when he was still ALIVE. He started them himself. Starting a war and having the other side join his religion or die.
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Even if christianity did the same, does that make it right? Dumb kid thinking just because someone else did an atrocity its ok for him to.
    Last edited by Empire; 01-29-2012 at 11:56 PM.


  5. #20
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    Hmm, I'm not very-well educated in the Qu'ran but aren't there muslims in Arab or something like that who try to kill and conquer land or something... I don't remember, I do have a lot of muslim friends but I only know what happens when you do and so on. I just remember them talking about people or muslims, not sure. Could anyone confirm this?
    ... hi


     

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    It's all open to interpretation.



    ^Thanks to RJ^




  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGN View Post
    It's all open to interpretation.
    The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is dominant (as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim demands are not met. Either situation seems to provide a justification for religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic fundamentalism.
    Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.



    Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."



    Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.



    Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."



    Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').



    Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.



    Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"



    Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."



    Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).



    Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?



    Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



    Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.



    Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."



    Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."



    Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."



    Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."



    Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."



    Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars.



    Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."



    Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.



    Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.




    Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"



    Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.



    Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).




    Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.



    Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."




    Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."



    Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."



    Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).



    Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)



    Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"



    Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.



    Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.



    Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."



    Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"



    Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?



    Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.



    Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."



    Quran (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.



    Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.




    From the Hadith:



    Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."



    Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.



    Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'



    Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)



    Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious



    Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah



    Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."



    Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."



    Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."



    Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"



    Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite.'"



    Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."



    Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.



    Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.



    Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.



    Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.



    Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 327: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”



    Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.



    Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

    @ARSENALMAN
    Last edited by RJ; 01-30-2012 at 10:31 AM.

    END THE FED

  8. #23
    ARSENALMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    They can't have the same God if they don't believe in him.. *Facepalm*

    Muslims don't believe jesus is God right? So they don't have the same god as christians who believe that Jesus is god.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Christianity's "crusades" were 200 years AFTER jesus had been crucified.(Well, the crusades were actually hundreds after Rome adopted it but since you know jack shit on history, i'll just give you a hint in saying what rome did). Also to be fair, they were more to do with rome but thats another story. But i guess you could say they were at one time a war religion, they just didn't spread because of it while Jesus was alive or even while his disciples were.


    Muhammeds "holy wars" were when he was still ALIVE. He started them himself. Starting a war and having the other side join his religion or die.
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Even if christianity did the same, does that make it right? Dumb kid thinking just because someone else did an atrocity its ok for him to.
    Hahaha i dont know anything about history? The crusades were around 1095-1272 not 200 years after jesus was crucified, seems to me like you know nothing about history just like most americans. It wasnt what Rome did it was ordered by the pope who was in Rome. Theres a BBC documentary about the crusades you should go check it out. And why are you swearing its debating not flaming you should know that since youre a moderator.


    Muhammed was not allowed to stay in mecca if he did he would be killed, same for the people who followed him. He went and took mecca back and even people who opposed Islam were spared. They were not killed. Where did I say it was right to commit atrocities because Christianity did? Youre just making stuff up. Cant you have a debate without flaming? Im not dumb.

    Also youre saying christians believe that jesus is God, but in your previous post you said christians believe that jesus is the son of god. Which one is it?



    ---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

    @MPGHRJ most of those versus are saying God will punish them it doesnt say to go attack innocent people. It says attack someone who attacks Islam, defend Islam. And it is cherry picking and taken out of context I bet you got that from a site who is spreading hate about Islam.
    Last edited by ARSENALMAN; 01-30-2012 at 12:38 PM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is dominant (as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim demands are not met. Either situation seems to provide a justification for religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic fundamentalism.
    @ARSENALMAN
    I found this one in the bible....

    1>109 I understand.

    2nd Chronicles 15:13
    All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.


    Edit: I also found this

    You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

    Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

    Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

    Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

    Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

    Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

    Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

    Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5



    FYI, I do consider myself Christian. I am just debating. But I do agree, Islam seems much much more violent. I have read most of the new testament I know that it is mostly about love and mercy and teaching people to be good people.
    Last edited by AVGN; 01-30-2012 at 01:18 PM.



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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARSENALMAN View Post


    ---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

    @MPGHRJ most of those versus are saying God will punish them it doesnt say to go attack innocent people. It says attack someone who attacks Islam, defend Islam. And it is cherry picking and taken out of context I bet you got that from a site who is spreading hate about Islam.
    Spreading hate by providing FACTUAL information? hmmmmm
    It definatilly DOES call muslims to go to war with non-believers. Even IF that was not the intent (which it obviously was) it could be (and is) taken in a way that would suggest that violence is encouraged. Just because you say it doesn't... doesn't change the fact.

    Answer this for me. Why do muslims kill so many innocent men women and children in the name of your God? DON'T dodge the question, DON'T attempt to play off Islam as the victom, DON'T attempt to delute your answer by bringing up the mistakes of other people. Address the question directly.

    I mean, it happens so often, it's considered normal...

    Don't get me wrong, as an American I respect your right to believe what ever it is you may choose to, but how can you sit by and not condem the people taking innocent life in the name of "Allah"? As a religious person, this should anger you WAY WAY WAY more then it does me. You have extreemist making your people, and your very way of life look like nothing more then hate mongering murderers.

    Quote Originally Posted by AVGN View Post


    I found this one in the bible....

    1>109 I understand.

    2nd Chronicles 15:13
    All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.


    Edit: I also found this

    You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

    Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

    Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

    Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

    Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

    Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

    Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

    Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5



    FYI, I do consider myself Christian. I am just debating. But I do agree, Islam seems much much more violent. I have read most of the new testament I know that it is mostly about love and mercy and teaching people to be good people.
    Ohh yeah, the old testament has it's darker moments. I do not consider myself anything really. I don't think there isn't a higher power, but I know it isn't proven. You have to blindly accept things as truth in order to have "faith". I don't agree with this aspect, so I do not participate.

    However, on the subject of Islam, and the ammount of violence, and wasted life in the name of "God" "Allah" or whomever, is causing pain, and suffering on a level that is truely disguesting. And all people of all races, creeds, or ideals should be appalled by the actions perpetrated in the name of Islam.
    Last edited by RJ; 01-30-2012 at 02:05 PM.

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    To tell you the truth Ive never met a terrorist or those people who kill innocent people and try to justify it using Islam. I dont know why they do it maybe theyre angry because they see USA and other countries as invaders, maybe one of their innocent family members got killed and are angry with USA army. I condemn it completely. But what can I do? Im just a normal person, Im not famous, Im not a politician I cant stop them. Of course they make me angry because theyre giving Islam a bad name. Were there this many terrorist attacks before 9/11? Afghanistan was a completely different country 60 years women were put in high positions in government and society. But USA and europe invading Iraq, afghanistan has increased terrorism. Before 9/11 no one had even heard about terrorism. And Islam has been around 1400 years so it cant be to blame. If it really teached to go fight non believers there would be millions of terrorist attacks. There are around 2billion muslims. The problem is the media has created a negative image of Islam. When ever there is a report its always "Islamic terrorists" theyre not muslims.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARSENALMAN View Post
    If it really teached to go fight non believers there would be millions of terrorist attacks. There are around 2billion muslims. The problem is the media has created a negative image of Islam. When ever there is a report its always "Islamic terrorists" theyre not muslims.....
    The same question can easily be turned around. If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is it the only one that consistently produces religiously-motivated terrorist attacks each and every day of the year? Why are thousands of people willing and able to cut off an innocent person’s head or fly a plane full of passengers into an office building while screaming praises to Allah? Where’s the outrage among other Muslims when this happens…

    Rather than trying to answer a question with a question, however, let's just say that the reason why most Muslims don't kill is that regardless of what Islam may or may not teach it's wrong to kill over religious beliefs.

    c&p

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    I dont know why they do that just like you. I dont know what is in their head. One reason maybe theyre are being paid to do it or their family being paid if they do it. Since most of them come from poor backgrounds. The biggest question is where are they getting their weapons from? I watched a documentary which showed that most of the weapons were made by USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARSENALMAN View Post
    I dont know why they do that just like you. I dont know what is in their head. One reason maybe theyre are being paid to do it or their family being paid if they do it. Since most of them come from poor backgrounds. The biggest question is where are they getting their weapons from? I watched a documentary which showed that most of the weapons were made by USA.
    ohh yeah, because the US makes mass ammounts of Soviet AK-47s... You're fucking dumb. All it takes to aquire a weapon is money.

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    Wasnt the waco incident kind of a christian terrorist?



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