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  1. #61
    Vehrdyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by `Code View Post
    [Quran 6:151] "You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."

    Clearly the ones doing that in name of Islam arent Muslims. Extremists Muslims are a minority but they have the most impact on the image of Islam through the eye of a non-Muslim.

    and @gilaroti please stopping posting without any proof it rather contributes to the problem.
    i know what i say , because my friend's many muslim

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Ok guys, my turn.

    PersonA is a muslim.
    PersonA sins.

    God forgives him according to Islam.

    PersonB claims PersonA is no longer a muslim because he sinned.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Person b is wrong because nowhere in said religion is it stated that a certain sin will cast someone out of Islam.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It does not matter what the sin is, God forgives it in Islam. To say a muslim isn't a muslim simply because he sinned is not only 100% wrong, but also just a way for you to feel morally superior.

    Exactly what he Said right there, A Muslim can't even Judge another Muslims, It's all up to Allah at Judging People EITHER if they're going to Hell, Or Heaven.
    And as Allah said.
    (Say: O My slaves who have been prodigal to their own hurt! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, Who forgiveth all sins. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful. (53) Turn unto your Lord repentant, and surrender unto Him, before there come unto you the doom, when ye cannot be helped.)
    Last edited by ArkhamJ; 08-07-2012 at 01:56 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

    I STILL don't see how ^ that came from the book of "a religion of peace" but alright.

  4. #64
    vaporak10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Ok guys, my turn.

    PersonA is a muslim.
    PersonA sins.

    God forgives him according to Islam.

    PersonB claims PersonA is no longer a muslim because he sinned.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Person b is wrong because nowhere in said religion is it stated that a certain sin will cast someone out of Islam.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It does not matter what the sin is, God forgives it in Islam. To say a muslim isn't a muslim simply because he sinned is not only 100% wrong, but also just a way for you to feel morally superior.
    Correcto, but who assumed that?


    ---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

    I STILL don't see how ^ that came from the book of "a religion of peace" but alright.
    You should read this.
    The American Muslim (TAM)
    In order for this to make sense, its got to be examined in historical context and the context in which it is written.

    Read it and tell me what you think.
    You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon'.
    -- Chris Rock

  5. #65
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaporak10 View Post

    lol u mad bro?

    You said it yourself, to be a Muslim, you need to believe in God and the prophet.
    Yet now you say its "How a Muslim practices is between him and God"
    Lol wow.. no shit that is my argument.
    learn the difference between belief and practice.
    Of course to be a Muslim you have to believe in the alleged deity of where this religion originated..
    what else would you believe in..? The flying spaghetti monster?
    My argument is that it's not up to a human to make the decision that someone is not a Muslim, because they did things that Islam shuns.
    That is practice..not belief. Man.. some of you guys make my brain hurt.

  6. #66
    Empire's Avatar
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    Ok so you agree with me.

    Therefore muslims who do such acts of whatever are muslims still.

    Argument done, both sides agree.


  7. #67
    vaporak10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    Lol wow.. no shit that is my argument.
    learn the difference between belief and practice.
    Of course to be a Muslim you have to believe in the alleged deity of where this religion originated..
    what else would you believe in..? The flying spaghetti monster?
    My argument is that it's not up to a human to make the decision that someone is not a Muslim, because they did things that Islam shuns.
    That is practice..not belief. Man.. some of you guys make my brain hurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Ok so you agree with me.
    Therefore muslims who do such acts of whatever are muslims still.
    Argument done, both sides agree.
    What I wanted to say is that "Muslims" who kill others are in direct contradiction of the Quran and are thereby not literally considered Muslims.

    Define Muslims: A follower of the religion of Islam
    Define Islam: The religion of Muslims, having the Koran as its sacred scripture and teaching that there is only one God and that Mohammed is his last prophet.

    So a Muslim is someone who accepts the Quran as the sacred scripture and believe there is one God and Muhammad is his last prophet.
    Comprende?
    So a person is not considered a mainstream Muslim if they go against the Quran because the Quran is one of the core pieces of the religion.
    Its really not that hard to understand....
    You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon'.
    -- Chris Rock

  8. #68
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaporak10 View Post





    What I wanted to say is that "Muslims" who kill others are in direct contradiction of the Quran and are thereby not literally considered Muslims.

    Define Muslims: A follower of the religion of Islam
    Define Islam: The religion of Muslims, having the Koran as its sacred scripture and teaching that there is only one God and that Mohammed is his last prophet.

    So a Muslim is someone who accepts the Quran as the sacred scripture and believe there is one God and Muhammad is his last prophet.
    Comprende?
    So a person is not considered a mainstream Muslim if they go against the Quran because the Quran is one of the core pieces of the religion.
    Its really not that hard to understand....
    Yes you're right, it's not that hard to understand..which is exactly why you can't get simple logic through your stubborn numb skull.
    Even other Muslims in this thread said you're wrong. What is the point of Allah teaching muhammed the fundamentals of divine forgiveness and repentance?
    Obviously it is geared for Muslims that would eventually sin. Sin would be considered anything that goes against Allah and the prophets teachings.
    Being the all knowing almighty being that Allah is, he obviously gave Muslims a way to redeem themselves.

    That being said, you sitting here telling me that because a Muslim does some things that go against the Quranic teachings make them NOT Muslim is just complete garbage, and you're just trying to make your religion out to be spiffy clean, void of any kind of sinners.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 08-07-2012 at 07:35 PM.

  9. #69
    vaporak10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    Yes you're right, it's not that hard to understand..which is exactly why you can't get simple logic through your stubborn numb skull.
    Even other Muslims in this thread said you're wrong. What is the point of Allah teaching muhammed the fundamentals of divine forgiveness and repentance?
    Obviously it is geared for Muslims that would eventually sin. Sin would be considered anything that goes against Allah and the prophets teachings.
    Being the all knowing almighty being that Allah is, he obviously gave Muslims a way to redeem themselves.

    That being said, you sitting here telling me that because a Muslim does some things that go against the Quranic teachings make them NOT Muslim is just complete garbage, and you're just trying to make your religion out to be spiffy clean, void of any kind of sinners.
    I never said if a Muslim that sins repents and takes the appropiate actions he then will not be a Muslim. Don't feed words into my mouth.

    I said those terrorists the media labels as "Muslims" are not actually Muslims because they are going against the Quran. If they want to repent and then go through the appropiate things then hey, welcome back to Islam. But otherwise, no.

    Your logic is very idiotic because in reality you are telling me that if someone goes against the teachings of their belief, they are still considered to be a part of that mainstream belief which is utter bullshit.
    You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon'.
    -- Chris Rock

  10. #70
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaporak10 View Post


    I never said if a Muslim that sins repents and takes the appropiate actions he then will not be a Muslim. Don't feed words into my mouth.

    I said those terrorists the media labels as "Muslims" are not actually Muslims because they are going against the Quran. If they want to repent and then go through the appropiate things then hey, welcome back to Islam. But otherwise, no.

    Your logic is very idiotic because in reality you are telling me that if someone goes against the teachings of their belief, they are still considered to be a part of that mainstream belief which is utter bullshit.
    How do you know they don't repent? Again, you're just repeating yourself and proving my point for me.
    Also, Muslim "extremist" basically consider themselves Mujahideen,that they're fighting some kind of holy war.
    Even according to the passages in the Quran they're allowed to do all sorts of violent shit during jihad.
    So basically Muslims can take any kind of violent conflict and flip it into a war against Allah, and boom. Sin free killing.
    Religion of peace. More like religion of piece. Of shit.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaporak10 View Post
    Your logic is very idiotic because in reality you are telling me that if someone goes against the teachings of their belief, they are still considered to be a part of that mainstream belief which is utter bullshit.
    If one stays with one belief, it is what they believe, therefore they will not be inclined to go against said belief even if it is wrong. Another person could know said belief is wrong, tell person A, though person A would not believe person B because person A believes differently. Whereas there can be a person C, who believes in the same thing as everyone else in practicalness, but has a different interpretation of said belief. This separate interpretation could therefore be considered a secular belief, meanwhile being impartial to a new belief entirely as a branch of the original with the same title.

  12. #72
    vaporak10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    How do you know they don't repent? Again, you're just repeating yourself and proving my point for me.
    Also, Muslim "extremist" basically consider themselves Mujahideen,that they're fighting some kind of holy war.
    Even according to the passages in the Quran they're allowed to do all sorts of violent shit during jihad.
    So basically Muslims can take any kind of violent conflict and flip it into a war against Allah, and boom. Sin free killing.
    Religion of peace. More like religion of piece. Of shit.
    Maybe we will know they repented if they stop blowing up innocents?

    And about the "basically Muslims can take any kind of violent conflict and flip it into a war against Allah", that is not true. In the Quran it says you can only fight in self-defense. But of course, the extremists will again say they are fighting in self-defense while the mainstream Muslims will say they are not. So it all comes down to the Quran and whether the violent interpretation by the extremists is right or vice versa.

    And I will say this, in the context the verses are presented, both historically and in the verses around it, the extremists are wrong.
    And that is why they are not Muslims.
    End.
    You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon'.
    -- Chris Rock

  13. #73
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaporak10 View Post


    Maybe we will know they repented if they stop blowing up innocents?

    And about the "basically Muslims can take any kind of violent conflict and flip it into a war against Allah", that is not true. In the Quran it says you can only fight in self-defense. But of course, the extremists will again say they are fighting in self-defense while the mainstream Muslims will say they are not. So it all comes down to the Quran and whether the violent interpretation by the extremists is right or vice versa.

    And I will say this, in the context the verses are presented, both historically and in the verses around it, the extremists are wrong.
    And that is why they are not Muslims.
    End.
    Sorry, you're wrong and apparently an idiot.

    They ARE Muslims. Sure probably pretty shitty ones, but none the less Muslims.
    The fuckers run around screaming about Allah.. so whether you like it or not..MUSLIM.
    Just like right now, I'm going to convert to Pancakeism. My God is a pancake.
    Doesn't matter who thinks I'm not a Pancakeist I proclaim I am, so tough titties.

  14. #74
    vaporak10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post


    If one stays with one belief, it is what they believe, therefore they will not be inclined to go against said belief even if it is wrong. Another person could know said belief is wrong, tell person A, though person A would not believe person B because person A believes differently. Whereas there can be a person C, who believes in the same thing as everyone else in practicalness, but has a different interpretation of said belief. This separate interpretation could therefore be considered a secular belief, meanwhile being impartial to a new belief entirely as a branch of the original with the same title.
    We will always believe that opinions that differ from ours as wrong or misguided. But if I made my own religion and you refused to follow some aspects of it and modified it, you are no longer a follower of my religion. Just like how extremists quote the Quran out of context to justfy their own goals and they refuse to follow the mainstream Islamic rulings. So i have no idea how they are seen as following the same religion is regular Muslims.


    ---------- Post added at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    Sorry, you're wrong and apparently an idiot.

    They ARE Muslims. Sure probably pretty shitty ones, but none the less Muslims.
    The fuckers run around screaming about Allah.. so whether you like it or not..MUSLIM.
    Just like right now, I'm going to convert to Pancakeism. My God is a pancake.
    Doesn't matter who thinks I'm not a Pancakeist I proclaim I am, so tough titties.
    But they do not follow the same teachings, laws, religious scriptures, whatever you want to call it. So how in hell are they considered to be part of the same religion as the mainstream Muslims?
    I could run around saying Pancake God is Great yet disobey every single teaching in the Pancake God bible and yet still be considered a Pancakeist? I think I am but I'm actually not.

    The Extremists are either not Muslims or they follow their own version of Islam that should not be associated with the rest of Islam
    Last edited by vaporak10; 08-07-2012 at 08:39 PM.
    You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon'.
    -- Chris Rock

  15. #75
    moali123's Avatar
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    KamielFTW you can go FUKK ur slef cuz im an Islam and im from Afghanistan and islam people is not rascit or rude to any other religions soo u shouldnt be rasict and dont chat shit because you dont know nothing about islam

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