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  1. #76
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaporak10 View Post

    But they do not follow the same teachings, laws, religious scriptures, whatever you want to call it. So how in hell are they considered to be part of the same religion as the mainstream Muslims?
    I could run around saying Pancake God is Great yet disobey every single teaching in the Pancake God bible and yet still be considered a Pancakeist?
    Yep. Because you are not dealing with something of the physical realm, as a matter of fact there is no proof that you're dealing with anything.
    Could have been the opium induced scrawlings of some nutcase for all you know.
    If I said I was a math teacher, then went into a class and taught history..that's a different story.
    As far as religion goes, it is all speculative. This is why you have different sects/denominations in both Islam and Christianity,
    along with many other religions. Because obviously people don't practice in the same ways.
    There is a good reason for that, because many religions are so fucking vague with their teachings.

  2. #77
    Liz's Avatar
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    The Bible: Translated and edited by men in power over centuries. Original form was the old testament or the Jewish Torah. Also written by men in power as 'laws' and doctrine for their people.

    The Qur’an: Muslims believe to be verbally revealed through angel Jibrīl (Gabriel) from God to Muhammad gradually over a period of approximately 23 years. So basically the writings of a man over a long time span of war and conquering. Funny how 'God' stopped talking when the guy died. You'd think he would have found someone else.

    Both books are written by men who claimed to have spoken to 'God' or his 'Angels' today that would be a diagnosis of Schizophrenia. However back then culture was different, people wanted to follow and needed to be led. Such behavior if presented with any form of charisma was often believed. Hence the many "prophets".


    The truth is this, so long as humanity keeps seeking the definition for 'God' in books and men, they will completely loose the point.

    I believe there has to be something that holds the universe together, some code, some form of mechanism. There is too much for it all to be completely random, so much in fact that random becomes nearly impossible.


    I was raised Catholic, was baptized, was confirmed. I grew up. Realized organized religions are nothing but a joke, a way to manipulate, subjugate and in very few cases, actually give solace and hope to prevent the absolute truth. We die.


    To answer the question.

    Catholicism vs Islam.

    Neither. They both have committed and continue to commit atrocities. Seek your own way to God, following a book or what man tells you blindly is foolish.

    Also don't bother pointing out some pointless shit, or irrelevant data.

    Also People stop saying Allah != God its the same thing. Just a different language. Dios, Allah, Dio, YHWH, Yahweh whatever. Same being.





    PS.

    This is in my MHO. I could be wrong, I could be right. Could be neither. In the end, whatever helps you sleep at night, you should do. So long as it does not hinder other people. Live and let live is the best religion.
    Last edited by Liz; 08-07-2012 at 09:10 PM.


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  3. #78
    ArkhamJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liz View Post
    The Bible: Translated and edited by men in power over centuries. Original form was the old testament or the Jewish Torah. Also written by men in power as 'laws' and doctrine for their people.

    The Qurían: Muslims believe to be verbally revealed through angel Jibrīl (Gabriel) from God to Muhammad gradually over a period of approximately 23 years. So basically the writings of a man over a long time span of war and conquering. Funny how 'God' stopped talking when the guy died. You'd think he would have found someone else.
    Bible.. If you would really Search.. NO ONE IN THIS WORLD.. Agrees about the translation of it.. They are say different things.. You will find the Bible in like.. Many ways, Not the Quran, No, The Quran was made in one Shape, One Language, Everyone agrees on it.

    Quran was First told you Prophet Mohamed by Jibril, After that, Allah did inspire, Told, Mohamed About the Quran, The verses, And for the logic of yours..

    How can a guy can't even Read/Write make the Quran? How can EVEN A can who can't read or write make some words that Arabs themselves couldn't find Something like it.

    Also, God said that Mohammed was his Last Prophet, I just can't remember the Verse, I will find it for you.

    Also Mohammed said that Allah send him as the Last Massanger of his, I will also get you that Saying, All of that, Shows that Islam is the True religion between all of what's around at the moment.

    If you want to know, Go read the miracles of quran, Example, The end of the Universe.

    (They will come out of the graves with downcast eyes like an expanding swarm of locusts. (54:7)
    The Big Crunch theory proposes that the universe, that began expanding with the Big Bang, will collapse in on itself with increasing speed. According to the theory, this collapse of the universe will continue until the universe has lost all its mass and turned into a single point of infinite density.

    It is also believed that the contracting universe will end in a fierce heat and contraction known as the "Big Crunch." This would lead to the end of all forms of life as we know them. Renata Kallosh and Andrei Linde, professors of physics from Stanford University, made the following statements on the subject:

    The universe may be doomed to collapse and disappear. Everything we see now, and at a much larger distance that we cannot see, will collapse into a point smaller than a proton. Locally, it will be the same as if you were inside a black hole... We have found that some of the best attempts to describe dark energy predict that it will gradually become negative, which will cause the universe to become unstable, then collapse... Physicists have known that dark energy could become negative and the universe could collapse sometime in the very distant future... but now we see that we might be, not in the beginning, but in the middle of the life cycle of our universe.4

    This is how this scientific hypothesis of the Big Crunch is indicated in the Qur'an:

    That Day We will fold up heaven like folding up the pages of a book. As We originated the first creation so We will regenerate it. It is a promise binding on Us. That is what We will do. (Qur'an, 21:104)

    In another verse, this state of the heavens is described thus:

    They do not measure Allah with His true measure. The whole Earth will be a mere handful for Him on the Day of Resurrection the heavens folded up in His right hand. Glory be to Him! He is exalted above the partners they ascribe! (Qur'an, 39:67)

    According to the Big Crunch theory, the universe will begin to collapse slowly and will then increasingly pick up speed. At the end of the process the universe will have infinite density and be infinitely hot and small. This scientific theory runs parallel to the Qur'anic explanation of this particular scientific concept. (Allah knows best)
    Thats just one.. You can read more in here.

  4. #79
    Liz's Avatar
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    Yes, the guy who wrote it, wrote that he was the last prophet. That is not convenient at all.

    Anyway proving that the book is not just a book by quoting the book is not exactly evidence.


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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liz View Post
    Yes, the guy who wrote it, wrote that he was the last prophet. That is not convenient at all.

    Anyway proving that the book is not just a book by quoting the book is not exactly evidence.
    Again im Saying, He wasn't the one who wrote it, Allah did, He couldn't Read nor right.. Logic?

    ALSO a proof for that, When Jibrel first came down and talk to Him, And asked him to Read whats written, He said (I can't read)..

    Go see the videos i posted up there.. That will show you what Islam is truly is.. The guy in these videos ALMOST answering every question anyone might have..

  6. #81
    Liz's Avatar
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    So... the guy says... God wrote it. You think, God came down, 1400 years ago, and wrote a book. Not manifested himself to everyone, to the entire universe, thus gaining eternal worship, but wrote a book, and gave it to a guy, in the middle of the desert.

    Also again you're listening to some guy, who gives you his opinion, at best that he got from said book. So it plays to exactly what I said.

    You are using what the book says to prove that said book is real.. See what I am saying.

    I can write a book saying God wrote this, and he commands this, this, and this.

    Doesn't make it true. Especially if I try to prove its true because its written in the book. Makes no sense.
    Last edited by Liz; 08-07-2012 at 10:44 PM.


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  8. #82
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    1. God NEVER did come to Earth.

    2. Mohammed WASN'T THE ONE WRITTEN QURAN.. Quran as i said was inspired/Told to Mohammed by Allah, And Because he didn't Know how to Write, His followers were the ones writing it.

    3. You can write a book, Correct, But.. Can you write a book that Everything in it did Happen/Will happen? No.

    And i Quote from a Post i did eailer..

    Albaqara ,Verse 26 to Verse 26(read it well), Scientists discovered from 10 years that another insect lives on the insect mosquito and that was said in this verse thousands of years ago. https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...22764268_n.jpg
    ( Ignore the Arabic words.)
    That's one point.
    Cahpter-27-Al Naml>From verse 18 to Verse 18. (concentrate you will find that allah said "crush" ..crush is used for glass and such stuff), But how ants get crushed?
    The scientists discovered that the DNA parts of the Ants have parts which includes glass,Which was said thousands years ago too.
    Another thing.
    Allah used in this verse "she" about the ant ..why?
    scientists recently discovered that the female ant is the task of warning the approach of any danger. God Almighty said: (She ant)
    that's just a part of miracles of the Quran, And I wont talk with you with faith and such things, I am talking about scientific facts now, That has been said from thousands of years with no tech...0 tech, And discovered now.
    Is this coincidence?
    all over that time ...scientists/finders The people who studies the Quran to find mistakes in it, None has found a mistake in it till this day.
    Most of the people who trys, Converts to Islam, Is that normal?
    there are more miracles in the quran many many
    And I didn't study the Quran very well ..I am just normal Muslim, I just converted into Islam Recently.
    Also.. How can you go with the Bible? The Christians.. Don't even Agree in whats in it.. Everyone takes the bible as the way he sees it.

    AND back to what a said.. Watch some of the Videos i posted.. You will find an Answer of most thing you will ask.

  9. #83
    Liz's Avatar
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    Andddddddddddddddd a swing and a miss.



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  12. #85
    Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liz View Post
    Andddddddddddddddd a swing and a miss.

    Welcome to debating Muslims.

    Science is wrong.
    Being tolerant towards others beliefs is wrong.
    Having equal rights as a female is wrong.
    Being anything but a Muslim is wrong.
    Debating the Quran with perfectly sensible logic is wrong.

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  14. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    Welcome to debating Muslims.

    Science is wrong.
    Being tolerant towards others beliefs is wrong.
    Having equal rights as a female is wrong.
    Being anything but a Muslim is wrong.
    Debating the Quran with perfectly sensible logic is wrong.
    Science isn't wrong.
    Who said that Being tolerant towards others beliefs is wrong again?
    Allah/Mohammed did tell people to give the Female same rights as the Males.
    Nope, Who said that again ALSO? No one can Judge, Only allah can.
    Tell you what.. Go read some Verses of the Quran, Like one full Sura.. And Try to find a One mistake.. Then, You have a logic that quran is wrong.

  15. #87
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    I'd just be happy if they admitted it was just a book that a guy(s) wrote. The end. Following someone's teachings /.


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    I would just be happy if you got me something that Proofs Islam is a wrong religion, My PM's/Or even here is waiting.

    Just get something (Logical)

  18. #89
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    I'm not saying its a 'bad religion' But This is your logic.

    "God wrote the book
    Mohammed and/or his followers wrote the book?
    My proof of this: It is written in the book."

    See what I am saying?

    It's not like Buddhism or Taoism, where you follow the teachings of someone, but know it was the teachings of a man.

    That is my point. Not that any religion is 'bad'. Just that they need to stop blindingly following what people or a book tells them.

    Its a pretty simple concept to understand.


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  20. #90
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    Mohammed/followers WROTE it..

    Allah MADE it, He Made it, Mohammed/Followers Wrote it.

    And by the way, Following Mohammed's Teaching mustn't be done Always, But It will be more good Just to follow them.

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