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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Dude, are you stupid? seriously, I'm asking who brought that book to us? to the humans ?
    Lets assume that book is from god... who brought it to us? Bible was brought by Jesus (PBUH), Quran was brought by Muhammad (PBUH)
    who brought your "book" ?
    God brought it to "the humans".

    Jesus didn't bring the bible though, his disciple's wrote it. It gives the testimony of four different people about Jesus and his life.
    ----------

    :/ I don't understand whats so hard to understand here, you seem to think I'm talking about christianity when I am not.
    -And just for the record. Four people which were alive at the time of Jesus, followed him around, and were seen by many, is better proof than a man 500 years after the death of Jesus.
    *If you were going on proof, which I guess you are not.


  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    God brought it to "the humans".

    Jesus didn't bring the bible though, his disciple's wrote it. It gives the testimony of four different people about Jesus and his life.
    ----------

    :/ I don't understand whats so hard to understand here, you seem to think I'm talking about christianity when I am not.
    -And just for the record. Four people which were alive at the time of Jesus, followed him around, and were seen by many, is better proof than a man 500 years after the death of Jesus.
    *If you were going on proof, which I guess you are not.
    Alright, You want to compare?
    You said 4 people lived with Jesus, and i'm talking about hundred and thousand who lived with Muhammad, and a huge percent did memorize the Quran COMPLETLY!
    thats enough for me to proof that Quran isn't corrupted and will never be corrupted, unlike the Bible who was written by 4 "Jesus followers".

    When compiling the Quran, They didn't just take it from few persons, they took it from everyone, and confirmed it from others.
    Muslims all around the world memorizing Quran by heart but Christians all they do is go to the Church once a week and sleep while they are praying, now who worship god more, Christians or Muslims?

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Alright, You want to compare?
    You said 4 people lived with Jesus, and i'm talking about hundred and thousand who lived with Muhammad, and a huge percent did memorize the Quran COMPLETLY!
    thats enough for me to proof that Quran isn't corrupted and will never be corrupted, unlike the Bible who was written by 4 "Jesus followers".

    When compiling the Quran, They didn't just take it from few persons, they took it from everyone, and confirmed it from others.
    Muslims all around the world memorizing Quran by heart but Christians all they do is go to the Church once a week and sleep while they are praying, now who worship god more, Christians or Muslims?
    Jesus had 12 disciples.
    Your logic is flawed by the way. Having hundreds of thousands of followers writing something?
    Ever hear of the saying "Too many chefs spoil the soup"?
    Also, Jesus nor his disciples wrote the entirety of the Bible.
    The Bible was around for centuries before Jesus ministered. Christ's disciples had nothing to do with writing the Old testament.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    Jesus had 12 disciples.
    Your logic is flawed by the way. Having hundreds of thousands of followers writing something?
    Ever hear of the saying "Too many chefs spoil the soup"?
    Also, Jesus nor his disciples wrote the entirety of the Bible.
    The Bible was around for centuries before Jesus ministered. Christ's disciples had nothing to do with writing the Old testament.
    You don't get it.
    The Quran was written on papers, stones and any other material that was able to write something on, all of this was written on Muhammads Era! when he was alive, and he used more than 10 writers to write his words, at the same time and they used to compare between each other so they don't miss up anything.

    When Muhammad PBUH died, Abo Baker (one of his greatest followers) ordered to get all of these papers and materials that the Quran was written on, in addition to everyone who memorize a verse and Quran, they ended up with collecting The Quran from cover to cover.
    If you want more details just google it...

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Alright, You want to compare?
    You said 4 people lived with Jesus, and i'm talking about hundred and thousand who lived with Muhammad, and a huge percent did memorize the Quran COMPLETLY!
    thats enough for me to proof that Quran isn't corrupted and will never be corrupted, unlike the Bible who was written by 4 "Jesus followers".

    When compiling the Quran, They didn't just take it from few persons, they took it from everyone, and confirmed it from others.
    Muslims all around the world memorizing Quran by heart but Christians all they do is go to the Church once a week and sleep while they are praying, now who worship god more, Christians or Muslims?
    So the point was that the quran/islam knows nothing of Jesus, not that the bible is more valid than the quran.(both are equally bullshit on actual proof).

    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    You don't get it.
    The Quran was written on papers, stones and any other material that was able to write something on, all of this was written on Muhammads Era! when he was alive, and he used more than 10 writers to write his words, at the same time and they used to compare between each other so they don't miss up anything.

    When Muhammad PBUH died, Abo Baker (one of his greatest followers) ordered to get all of these papers and materials that the Quran was written on, in addition to everyone who memorize a verse and Quran, they ended up with collecting The Quran from cover to cover.
    If you want more details just google it...
    And that proves that the whole "it can't ever be copied" thing is bullshit.


  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    So the point was that the quran/islam knows nothing of Jesus, not that the bible is more valid than the quran.(both are equally bullshit on actual proof).



    And that proves that the whole "it can't ever be copied" thing is bullshit.
    Quran and Islam tell us to respect Jesus and believe in him as a PROPHET, nothing more nothing less, hes just like Muhammad a Prophet and a good guy.

    and his birth was a miracle itself, but your making up stories about Jesus by claiming hes Gods son.

    the people that copied and organized the book is trusted and no way that they corrupted it or something, because Muhammad trusted them himself. and what I mean is that the Quran can't be corrupted now or anytime soon or in the future.
    Last edited by RedSpot; 09-26-2012 at 11:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Quran and Islam tell us to respect Jesus and believe in him as a PROPHET, nothing more nothing less, hes just like Muhammad a Prophet and a good guy.

    and his birth was a miracle itself, but your making up stories about Jesus by claiming hes Gods son.

    the people that copied and organized the book is trusted and no way that they corrupted it or something, because Muhammad trusted them himself. and what I mean is that the Quran can't be corrupted now or anytime soon or in the future.
    K, bro. Here is a Bible that is over 1600 years old. Way older than any Quran out there.
    Now I saved a verse here from Luke, then used the provided translator to show you in English.
    If you don't believe it's age, click on the home page and read the introduction.

    read Luke 3:21-22

    Codex Sinaiticus - See The Manuscript | Luke |

    Now here are the same passages from current Bible translations.

    http://www.biblestudytools.com/asv/l...:21;luke+20:13

    Luke 3:22; Luke 20:13 - American Standard Version - ASV - Online Bible Study

    Now I ask you again. Where is the corruption in the current versions of the Bible?
    Why should any Christian believe a Muslim when they claim the Bible is wrong,
    even though there is plenty of proof that nothing was changed regarding the claims of Christ being the son?
    Last edited by Ethereal; 09-26-2012 at 08:49 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Quran and Islam tell us to respect Jesus and believe in him as a PROPHET, nothing more nothing less, hes just like Muhammad a Prophet and a good guy.

    and his birth was a miracle itself, but your making up stories about Jesus by claiming hes Gods son.

    the people that copied and organized the book is trusted and no way that they corrupted it or something, because Muhammad trusted them himself. and what I mean is that the Quran can't be corrupted now or anytime soon or in the future.
    The people are "trusted"? LOL what a bullshit excuse. The translators for the bible are "trusted" lol. You are such a hypocrite.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Anyway, how is Jesus a prophet.

    Christians(who were there at the time) believed him to be the son of god.
    Jews(who were there at the time) believed him to be a heretic.
    Muslims(who weren't there at the time,) believed him to be a prophet.

    How? Thousands of people heard jesus speak, yet not one of them was a Muslim. You are taking the word of someone long after the time of Jesus over the people who were there. No one while Jesus was alive believed him to be a prophet, at least not in the Abrahamic religion sense.

    Sorry, but going on just basic logic here, you are wrong.
    Last edited by Empire; 09-27-2012 at 12:00 AM.


  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    The people are "trusted"? LOL what a bullshit excuse. The translators for the bible are "trusted" lol. You are such a hypocrite.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Anyway, how is Jesus a prophet.

    Christians(who were there at the time) believed him to be the son of god.
    Jews(who were there at the time) believed him to be a heretic.
    Muslims(who weren't there at the time,) believed him to be a prophet.

    How? Thousands of people heard jesus speak, yet not one of them was a Muslim. You are taking the word of someone long after the time of Jesus over the people who were there. No one while Jesus was alive believed him to be a prophet, at least not in the Abrahamic religion sense.

    Sorry, but going on just basic logic here, you are wrong.
    I don't care about the Abrahamic religion, I am Muslim who follows the Quran and the Hadith, forget everything else.
    Jesus isn't the son of god period.
    Jews "killed" Jesus, so no they don't consider him a heretic?
    and where were the Christians when Jews tried to "kill" Jesus PBUH? our Prophet fought in many battles and was in the battlefield, his followers protected him with their soul and blood.
    but when your "son of god" Jesus the prophet was crucify you did nothing to protect him?
    Why many Christians and famous Priests convert to Islam who talk on live TV and mention the Shehada? ? while there is no Shikh who converted to Christianity?

    ---------- Post added at 08:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    K, bro. Here is a Bible that is over 1600 years old. Way older than any Quran out there.
    Now I saved a verse here from Luke, then used the provided translator to show you in English.
    If you don't believe it's age, click on the home page and read the introduction.

    read Luke 3:21-22

    Codex Sinaiticus - See The Manuscript | Luke |

    Now here are the same passages from current Bible translations.

    Luke 3:21; Luke 20:13 - American Standard Version - ASV - Online Bible Study

    Luke 3:22; Luke 20:13 - American Standard Version - ASV - Online Bible Study

    Now I ask you again. Where is the corruption in the current versions of the Bible?
    Why should any Christian believe a Muslim when they claim the Bible is wrong,
    even though there is plenty of proof that nothing was changed regarding the claims of Christ being the son?
    Jesus isn't gods son, hes just a Prophet.

    Thats what us Muslims believe and nothing can change that fact.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post


    ---------- Post added at 08:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------



    Jesus isn't gods son, hes just a Prophet.

    Thats what us Muslims believe and nothing can change that fact.
    That's fine that is what you believe.
    You still avoided my questions.
    I provided you with a bible that predates Islam itself that states something different.
    The argument is why would you criticize Christians for their beliefs, and make claims of biblical corruption?
    Christians just seem to have a stronger argument in this case with the manuscripts to prove so.
    Again, I have no problem with you believing what you believe, what I do have an issue with is making unwarranted claims..
    Especially when you have nothing to back it up with, besides a book that came out 700+ years after the Bible.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    That's fine that is what you believe.
    You still avoided my questions.
    I provided you with a bible that predates Islam itself that states something different.
    The argument is why would you criticize Christians for their beliefs, and make claims of biblical corruption?
    Christians just seem to have a stronger argument in this case with the manuscripts to prove so.
    Again, I have no problem with you believing what you believe, what I do have an issue with is making unwarranted claims..
    Especially when you have nothing to back it up with, besides a book that came out 700+ years after the Bible.
    Just think about it for real! Bibles are written in different versions with changing the content. you can never know which version is the real and the original one.

    and you can never know if the real and the very first bible is among those versions, There is only 1 Quran that is only printed in 1 factory, and it has 1 only stamp to prove it credibility, which means Quran is passed into checking stations and circles after being printed, from Quran memorizers .
    Last edited by RedSpot; 09-27-2012 at 10:30 AM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Just think about it for real! Bibles are written in different versions with changing the content. you can never know which version is the real and the original one.

    and you can never know if the real and the very first bible is among those versions, There is only 1 Quran that is only printed in 1 factory, and it has 1 only stamp to prove it credibility, which means Quran is passed into checking stations and circles after being printed, from Quran memorizers .

    Are you seriously bringing this argument again even after I proved to you that what you say is bullshit?
    The American standard version of the Bible, yes the ones in circulation today are translated from the original Latin and Greek Bibles.
    The only difference in the Bibles versions are translations. That is it. All of the meanings of each passage remain the same.
    I showed you passages from a 1600 year old Bible translated from Koine Greek, then compared it to the current ASV Bible.
    That there is called bringing credible source to an argument. Something you have failed to do in this debate.
    How can you even argue this point when you even admitted you know nothing about the Bible?
    You're always telling us to learn about the Quran, well why don't you learn some things about the bible?
    From what I've seen you really don't know much about it and you're basically forming an opinion based on what other Muslims say about it.
    I on the other hand know quite a lot about Islam, it was a subject of research for years so I can form educated opinions about it.
    You on the other hand are just taking shots in the dark, and bringing uneducated opinions to these discussions.
    I'm not trying to insult you, but until you do some research yourself, and can form your own opinions don't expect to be taken seriously.
    That being said, I'm done discussing this subject with you because apparently you're on repeat.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 09-27-2012 at 01:24 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post



    Are you seriously bringing this argument again even after I proved to you that what you say is bullshit?
    The American standard version of the Bible, yes the ones in circulation today are translated from the original Latin and Greek Bibles.
    The only difference in the Bibles versions are translations. That is it. All of the meanings of each passage remain the same.
    I showed you passages from a 1600 year old Bible translated from Koine Greek, then compared it to the current ASV Bible.
    That there is called bringing credible source to an argument. Something you have failed to do in this debate.
    How can you even argue this point when you even admitted you know nothing about the Bible?
    You're always telling us to learn about the Quran, well why don't you learn some things about the bible?
    From what I've seen you really don't know much about it and you're basically forming an opinion based on what other Muslims say about it.
    I on the other hand know quite a lot about Islam, it was a subject of research for years so I can form educated opinions about it.
    You on the other hand are just taking shots in the dark, and bringing uneducated opinions to these discussions.
    I'm not trying to insult you, but until you do some research yourself, and can form your own opinions don't expect to be taken seriously.
    That being said, I'm done discussing this subject with you because apparently you're on repeat.
    What I know about the Bible is from the Quran, and the Quran says :

    "So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn." (2:79)

    "And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased." (3:187)

    "O People of the Scripture, why do you confuse the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know [it]?" (3:71)

    From the bible : - I don't know if I put the right verses or something -

    (Isaiah 28: 7 )

    (Pslams 56: 5 )

    (Jeremiah 23: 36 )

    - Sorry, but you are just victims of the bad people who corrupted the real Bible just to match their own good and benefits, Trust me on this one.

  14. #89
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    to me GOD is everyone's believe and he is one and only.

    Little children, you are from God, and have conquered them; for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in this world.
    -Jesus Christ
    Last edited by Instrumental; 09-27-2012 at 03:47 PM.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    What I know about the Bible is from the Quran, and the Quran says :
    So basically you know nothing about the actual history or facts about the bible.

    You are taking one holy book over another and calling it proof. That is not proof, that is opinion.


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