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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    I didn't say he married them FOR sex(although i doubt marrying a child was for companionship and yes, he did have sex with them, even the child). The whole point of polygamy is the inequality of women.

    ?_?

    Temperr, please don't come in here going "you are wrong" without any debate. Its considered spam.
    them? it was only 1!! and she was ready to be pregnant so its completely normal 1400 years ago, now shut the hell up and get another excuse.

    Stop saying bad things about Islam and the prophet because there is something called the day of judgment where your going to be punished about everything you said and did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    them? it was only 1!! and she was ready to be pregnant so its completely normal 1400 years ago, now shut the hell up and get another excuse.

    Stop saying bad things about Islam and the prophet because there is something called the day of judgment where your going to be punished about everything you said and did.
    Perfectly normal, even though Jews 700 years prior didn't even practice such disgusting rituals.
    If there is a God, and this being advocates moral purity, I'm pretty sure Muhammad got tortured in the after life until God got bored of it.
    I would imagine his afterlife consisting of children castrating him over and over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    And the idiot muslims attacked an entirely unrelated target.

    Sorry, but just because someone does something to piss off muslims doesn't give them the right to do anything.
    Really? If someone does something to piss people off won't make them mad or anything?

    I'm sure if I cussed your family out in front of you, then you would probably do something to hurt me.


    ---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    Perfectly normal, even though Jews 700 years prior didn't even practice such disgusting rituals.
    If there is a God, and this being advocates moral purity, I'm pretty sure Muhammad got tortured in the after life until God got bored of it.
    I would imagine his afterlife consisting of children castrating him over and over.
    1400 years ago was very different than now, times have changed and so have humans. 1400 years ago it was something very common to marry young girls, in fact they were not considered young girls, and rather they were considered young women back then. It is a historic fact that girls from the ages of 9 to 14 were being married in Europe, Asia, and Africa, in fact even in the United States girls at the age of 10 were also being married just more than a century ago.
    Yet with these facts no historian claims that all these people were sick perverts, historians would call anyone who made such a claim to be arrogant and very stupid who has no grasp or understanding of history.
    Even in Indo-Pak Sub-Continent girls used to be married at 12-13 even 50-60 years ago. And those ‘girls’ infact raised much better families. There were less family problems then. A simple analyses of the divorce rate then and know would certainly make it clear that maturity level earlier used to be different i.e. people used to come of age rather quickly.

    Had there been any bad thinking regarding this marriage in minds of the people at that time. Muslims would have tried there best to conceal at that time. But they didn’t.

  4. #64
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    i meant that if he was an islamic lecturer and someone who has studied islam he wouldnt even be on this website! im not saying that there are no muslim people here but its just that he is begging it off the religion when he really has little knowledge, he is a muslim but this does not give him a right to advertise the religion(especially if he has no idea of what hes talking about!.

    nb. i dont really care, cba with an argument.
    "out out , brief candle" life is a matter of seconds.

  5. #65
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    All I see in this thread is people hiding their hate for different religions by posting bullshit facts and generalizing each other.

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    Cool story bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebulaa View Post


    Really? If someone does something to piss people off won't make them mad or anything?

    I'm sure if I cussed your family out in front of you, then you would probably do something to hurt me.


    ---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------



    1400 years ago was very different than now, times have changed and so have humans. 1400 years ago it was something very common to marry young girls, in fact they were not considered young girls, and rather they were considered young women back then. It is a historic fact that girls from the ages of 9 to 14 were being married in Europe, Asia, and Africa, in fact even in the United States girls at the age of 10 were also being married just more than a century ago.
    Yet with these facts no historian claims that all these people were sick perverts, historians would call anyone who made such a claim to be arrogant and very stupid who has no grasp or understanding of history.
    Even in Indo-Pak Sub-Continent girls used to be married at 12-13 even 50-60 years ago. And those ‘girls’ infact raised much better families. There were less family problems then. A simple analyses of the divorce rate then and know would certainly make it clear that maturity level earlier used to be different i.e. people used to come of age rather quickly.

    Had there been any bad thinking regarding this marriage in minds of the people at that time. Muslims would have tried there best to conceal at that time. But they didn’t.
    Welp, first I'd just like to say that I find it hilarious that you're using Africa as a defense for Islam.
    A place where a major portion of it's continent runs rampant with rape, child trafficking, and an overall abuse of most civil liberties.
    Secondly, I'd like to just say that your "facts" are a bit inaccurate. You are showing "age of consent" Not legal marrying age.
    I can't tell you how many 10 year olds got married at that time in the U.S. but according to this census, barely any IF any.

    http://www.census.gov/population/soc...am/tabMS-2.pdf

    Yes the age of consent was young, but not all states were the same, it's relatively split.
    Now, onto the next point. At that time period arranged marriages were common, especially in the Victorian age.
    Not to mention it was common in many other European cultures that mixed into America.
    That doesn't mean two children get married then go off to live with one another, that becomes official when they are of age.
    You trying to compare this with a 50 year old man marrying a 9 year old is ridiculous.
    Even in Hindu culture, that predates Islam and Christianity, this would be unheard of.
    Yes India has the highest rate of child marriages, but it is children marrying children. Not old men marrying children.
    Also, your points about Europe is not completely accurate either. It was actually Europe that adopted child protection laws before the U.S. did.
    So to say that oldies were marrying kids in Europe being a common practice, that is historically inaccurate.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 09-26-2012 at 05:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post

    You are showing "age of consent" Not legal marrying age.

    http://www.census.gov/population/soc...am/tabMS-2.pdf
    Prophet Muhammad’s marriage with Aisha was 100% legal and acceptable by all laws and Divine Religions. It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off. In other words, when they turn into “women”, then they get married off. It was quite different for men on the other hand, because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life. So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married. The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage. That is why you see girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older. The culture back then and in many of the world countries today (NON-MUSLIM ONES TOO) is quite different than what you live in today. And there is no divine law which is broken in marrying a girl of nine at any costs.

    Secondly, Cenus gives info from 1890-2003. What we are talking about here dates 1400 years back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denelf View Post
    Cool story bro.


    Quit spamming. If you're going to be an imbecile and be a post-whore, then kill yourself.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebulaa View Post


    Prophet Muhammad’s marriage with Aisha was 100% legal and acceptable by all laws and Divine Religions. It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off. In other words, when they turn into “women”, then they get married off. It was quite different for men on the other hand, because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life. So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married. The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage. That is why you see girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older. The culture back then and in many of the world countries today (NON-MUSLIM ONES TOO) is quite different than what you live in today. And there is no divine law which is broken in marrying a girl of nine at any costs.

    Secondly, Cenus gives info from 1890-2003. What we are talking about here dates 1400 years back.



    Quit spamming. If you're going to be an imbecile and be a post-whore, then kill yourself.
    You brought up marriage in U.S. pre turn of the century, was just showing statistics for that period of time.
    Again you're making Islamic culture out to be something that was accepted all over the place before, during, and after this time period.
    I countered that point with examples of Jewish and Hindu tradition pre-Islam and you're simply not taking any of those points into consideration.
    Yes, arranged marriages were very common in those days, and from my understanding this carries on in present day with some cultures.
    I am showing a completely different contrast on the subject here though. Arranged marriages in pre-Islamic cultures was all about social status.
    Marrying off a daughter to the son of another successful family for instance. These types of arrangements are well documented.
    Find me a story in the Talmud, or the Baghavad Gita, or the Bible that has a story about a 50 year old getting engaged to a six year old, then marrying her three years later, and I suppose all that I can do is take into consideration your argument, no matter how disgusting I think it is personally.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 09-27-2012 at 12:53 AM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    them? it was only 1!! and she was ready to be pregnant so its completely normal 1400 years ago, now shut the hell up and get another excuse.

    Stop saying bad things about Islam and the prophet because there is something called the day of judgment where your going to be punished about everything you said and did.
    I'm sorry, but she was "ready to be pregnant"?

    Tell me, does a child who still plays with dolls sound "ready" to get knocked up? Hell I'm not even going to go on about how polygamy is wrong, much less 10+.
    -I'd love to see your source here.
    ---------------
    Stop saying bad things about your scum of a prophet or else? LOL, really? You are going to threaten me with that? What a "peaceful" religion you follow.
    1. I don't believe in your religion, so I obviously won't be threatened by "judgement"
    2. At this point you are saying that I will be judged by the religion that was started by a guy who had sex with a 9 year old, which if you actually think I would be threatened by that, its pretty pathetic of of you.
    -----------------------------------


    You seem to be thinking pedophilia and slavery are unable to be criticized because they were done in the past.

    I'm sorry, but no. Its wrong now, its wrong then, deal with it.
    -----------------------------------------------


    Funny how I don't see people defending Jesus with "it was ok then". I don't see how time has anything to do with morality of the action, much less since it was ordained by GOD. You know, the timeless all knowing being. Odd how God just then approved of sex with children. Odd how god was ok with slavery too.

    :/ You get the point? You are arguing with "it was ok then" when we aren't criticizing it basedon today's standards compared to the old times because of just bad taste. We are arguing it because you claim GOD supported it.


    ---------- Post added 09-27-2012 at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was 09-26-2012 at 11:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian View Post
    All I see in this thread is people hiding their hate for different religions by posting bullshit facts and generalizing each other.
    Look, I'd love to go on a spew about how "muslims do this and muslims do that" but this isn't about the muslims. This is about Islam, this is about muhammed. It isn't about some durka durka dumbass terrorist who uses Islam for his justification.
    Last edited by Empire; 09-27-2012 at 12:02 AM.


  11. #71
    سبحان الله وبحمدة سبحان الله العظيم
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    -Explanation.
    1.
    A) Capturing of slaves as booty.
    B) You just put that if a muslim kills a muslim (by mistake) the freeing of a slave(which the muslim owned) and compensation is owed.
    -Really man? Thats entirely proving my point.
    Slaves used to be sold in markets at that time, the disbelievers -they were Arab but not Muslims- used to slave people and sell them in the market, and what it means to free a slave is to buy the slave and set him free after buying him.

    another verse : "Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for [breaking] what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your [own] families or clothing them or the freeing of a slave. But whoever cannot find [or afford it] - then a fast of three days [is required]. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn. But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful." (5:89)

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    2.
    A) Slay them, take them as prisoner/slave, and ransom them after.(as slaves/prisoner.)
    -Again, really making my point for me here.
    B) God forbids you make allies with anyone but muslims....
    C) really just "kill the disbelievers" there.
    You know, there is something called Battles and Wars, when an enemy surrender you must not kill him, you must capture him and put him to jail. whats wrong with that? I don't understand!!
    yes god forbids us to make allies with non muslims who expelled us from our home and fighting our religion ... read the verses again "until the war lays down its burdens" & "who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion" .

    The captives was defined to 2 parts in the war:
    -Children,Women, and elderly people. those were set to free when captured, and sometimes get used of them by making those disbelievers to teach writing and reading to Muslims.
    -Fighters and Soldiers: those had 3 options
    a. to be killed.
    b. to set them free without any charge.
    c. to set them free after paying ransom or trading them with Muslim captives.

    "And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive," (76:8)

    Many stories mentioned in the Hadith.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    3.
    A) Uh......well.......Men are superior automatically, (strike) your wife, and then if they obey praise god.
    B) Men and women are allies
    C) BUT men's share of an inheritance is twice that of a woman.
    D) FUN TIME: marry all women who "please you" 2,3, 4. If that is too many, marry 1, or a SLAVE of yours.
    -sweet, bonus.
    -Strike your wife, thats right your her husband, you have the right to strike her to obey you. if she doesn't want ... stop sleeping with her, if she still doesn't want to obey you strike her, if she still doesn't want to obey you, divorce her... sounds reasonable and logical.
    - men get more inheritance because they have families to take care of and spend money on, while women have only themselfs, and they don't need money since their husbands are responsible about them and funding them.
    - "The CIA estimates that the current world wide sex ratio at birth is 107 boys to 100 girls." females in the earth are more than the males, so its completely logical that males can marry more than 1 female. although MOST of the Muslims and non Muslims nowadays marry only 1 female.
    -Slaves... read the last point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    6.
    A) Ok you posted several passages of slaying the "unbelievers" why bother with a mary quote when there was already one in the bible.
    B). Same thing.
    C). Funny story, muslims totally disobeyed this, even muhammed.
    D). Some anti-jew stuff, ok.
    E) Nothing to do with the topic really, just "if you don't believe you will go to hell" stuff.
    A. Okay.
    C.Your not real Christian, the real Christians doesn't believe that Jesus is gods son, they believe that there is only 1 god. And bring stories and evidences that Muhammad had no respect to Christians.
    D. Jews and Muslims are enemy till the day of Judgment, if you don't know Jews killed a lot of Prohpet including Jesus over the time.

    "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger assaying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fightagainst the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews wouldhide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree wouldsay: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; comeand kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree ofthe Jews." Hadith 6985 (Sahih Muslim - 41) Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour

    and all I can say is may Allah guide you to the right path.

    ---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    I'm sorry, but she was "ready to be pregnant"?

    Tell me, does a child who still plays with dolls sound "ready" to get knocked up? Hell I'm not even going to go on about how polygamy is wrong, much less 10+.
    -I'd love to see your source here.
    ---------------
    Stop saying bad things about your scum of a prophet or else? LOL, really? You are going to threaten me with that? What a "peaceful" religion you follow.
    1. I don't believe in your religion, so I obviously won't be threatened by "judgement"
    2. At this point you are saying that I will be judged by the religion that was started by a guy who had sex with a 9 year old, which if you actually think I would be threatened by that, its pretty pathetic of of you.
    -----------------------------------


    You seem to be thinking pedophilia and slavery are unable to be criticized because they were done in the past.

    I'm sorry, but no. Its wrong now, its wrong then, deal with it.
    -----------------------------------------------


    Funny how I don't see people defending Jesus with "it was ok then". I don't see how time has anything to do with morality of the action, much less since it was ordained by GOD. You know, the timeless all knowing being. Odd how God just then approved of sex with children. Odd how god was ok with slavery too.

    :/ You get the point? You are arguing with "it was ok then" when we aren't criticizing it basedon today's standards compared to the old times because of just bad taste. We are arguing it because you claim GOD supported it.
    Since when you care about Children? your shitty country is full with Children rapist, and all kind of criminals and scums.
    and once again this all happened 1400 YEARS AGO!! Wake up you idiot, everything have changed since then!!!
    and everything is going to change in the future you dumb!

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    and No im not threatening you, whats the point of big words on the net?
    that guy who had sex with 9 years old is purest and better than any human ever walked on earth, he has married just for political, and religious purposes!!
    Why did he marry a 80 year old women if he does care about his sexual relationship?

    and PLEEEASE what do most "Christians" know about Jesus?? all they know that hes son of god and hes their savior !
    Funny how you only pray only one time every week, and very tiny percentage of Christians actually go to church that day.

    ---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    I'm baffled that it took you an hour to completely prove my point redspot.
    Thats because I posted verses from the Quran, this takes a while. first I need to find the verses thats related to the Subject and then to organize them.
    and you can see that I didn't post a word from my own words.

    ---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Look, I'd love to go on a spew about how "muslims do this and muslims do that" but this isn't about the muslims. This is about Islam, this is about muhammed. It isn't about some durka durka dumbass terrorist who uses Islam for his justification.
    Muslim Soldier with a gun = Terrorist.
    American Soldier with a gun = Freedom fighter.
    Last edited by RedSpot; 09-27-2012 at 10:24 AM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Slaves used to be sold in markets at that time, the disbelievers -they were Arab but not Muslims- used to slave people and sell them in the market, and what it means to free a slave is to buy the slave and set him free after buying him.

    another verse : "Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for [breaking] what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your [own] families or clothing them or the freeing of a slave. But whoever cannot find [or afford it] - then a fast of three days [is required]. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn. But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful." (5:89)



    You know, there is something called Battles and Wars, when an enemy surrender you must not kill him, you must capture him and put him to jail. whats wrong with that? I don't understand!!
    yes god forbids us to make allies with non muslims who expelled us from our home and fighting our religion ... read the verses again "until the war lays down its burdens" & "who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion" .

    The captives was defined to 2 parts in the war:
    -Children,Women, and elderly people. those were set to free when captured, and sometimes get used of them by making those disbelievers to teach writing and reading to Muslims.
    -Fighters and Soldiers: those had 3 options
    a. to be killed.
    b. to set them free without any charge.
    c. to set them free after paying ransom or trading them with Muslim captives.

    "And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive," (76:8)

    Many stories mentioned in the Hadith.




    -Strike your wife, thats right your her husband, you have the right to strike her to obey you. if she doesn't want ... stop sleeping with her, if she still doesn't want to obey you strike her, if she still doesn't want to obey you, divorce her... sounds reasonable and logical.
    - men get more inheritance because they have families to take care of and spend money on, while women have only themselfs, and they don't need money since their husbands are responsible about them and funding them.
    - "The CIA estimates that the current world wide sex ratio at birth is 107 boys to 100 girls." females in the earth are more than the males, so its completely logical that males can marry more than 1 female. although MOST of the Muslims and non Muslims nowadays marry only 1 female.
    -Slaves... read the last point.




    A. Okay.
    C.Your not real Christian, the real Christians doesn't believe that Jesus is gods son, they believe that there is only 1 god. And bring stories and evidences that Muhammad had no respect to Christians.
    D. Jews and Muslims are enemy till the day of Judgment, if you don't know Jews killed a lot of Prohpet including Jesus over the time.

    "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger assaying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fightagainst the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews wouldhide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree wouldsay: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; comeand kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree ofthe Jews." Hadith 6985 (Sahih Muslim - 41) Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour

    and all I can say is may Allah guide you to the right path.

    ---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------



    Since when you care about Children? your shitty country is full with Children rapist, and all kind of criminals and scums.
    and once again this all happened 1400 YEARS AGO!! Wake up you idiot, everything have changed since then!!!
    and everything is going to change in the future you dumb!

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    and No im not threatening you, whats the point of big words on the net?
    that guy who had sex with 9 years old is purest and better than any human ever walked on earth, he has married just for political, and religious purposes!!
    Why did he marry a 80 year old women if he does care about his sexual relationship?

    and PLEEEASE what do most "Christians" know about Jesus?? all they know that hes son of god and hes their savior !
    Funny how you only pray only one time every week, and very tiny percentage of Christians actually go to church that day.

    ---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ----------



    Thats because I posted verses from the Quran, this takes a while. first I need to find the verses thats related to the Subject and then to organize them.
    and you can see that I didn't post a word from my own words.

    ---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 AM ----------



    Muslim Soldier with a gun = Terrorist.
    American Soldier with a gun = Freedom fighter.

    1. You didn't even respond to the verses you posted. Why bother responding to more?
    -It does not mandate it. It merely says "hey feed families or free a slave".
    2.
    A) Except the wars had no justifiable reason in the first place.
    B) And the pow's were made into slaves.
    C) Which were owned by muslims.
    -OH the hadith? Sweet.
     

    Bukhari (80:753) - "The Prophet said, 'The freed slave belongs to the people who have freed him.'"

    Bukhari (52:255) - The slave who accepts Islam and continues serving his Muslim master will receive a double reward in heaven.

    Bukhari (41.598) - Slaves are property. They cannot be freed if an owner has outstanding debt, but can be used to pay off the debt.

    Bukhari (62:137) - An account of women taken as slaves in battle by Muhammad's men after their husbands and fathers were killed. The woman were raped with Muhammad's approval.

    Bukhari (34:432) - Another account of females taken captive and raped with Muhammad's approval. In this case it is evident that the Muslims intend on selling the women after raping them because they are concerned about devaluing their price by impregnating them. Muhammad is asked about coitus interruptus.

    Bukhari (47.765) - A woman is rebuked by Muhammad for freeing a slave girl. The prophet tells her that she would have gotten a greater heavenly reward by giving her to a relative (as a slave).

    Bukhari (34:351) - Muhammad sells a slave for money. He was thus a slave trader.

    Bukhari (72:734) - Some contemporary Muslims in the West, where slavery is believed to be a horrible crime, are reluctant to believe that Muhammad owned slaves. This is just one of many places in the Hadith where a reference is made to a human being owned by Muhammad. In this case, the slave is of African descent.

    Muslim 3901 - Muhammad trades away two black slaves for one Muslim slave.

    Muslim 4112 - A man freed six slaves on the event of his death, but Muhammad reversed the emancipation and kept four in slavery to himself. He cast lots to determine which two to free.

    Bukhari (47:743) - Muhammad's own pulpit - from which he preached Islam - was built with slave labor on his command.

    Bukhari (59:637) - "The Prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, 'Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?' When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, 'O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?' I said, 'Yes.' He said, 'Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus.'" Muhammad approved of his men having sex with slaves, as this episode involving his son-in-law, Ali, clearly proves. This hadith refutes the modern apologists who pretend that slaves were really "wives," since Muhammad had forbidden Ali from marrying another woman as long as Fatima (his favorite daughter) was living.

    Abu Dawud (2150) - "The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Qur'an 4:24) 'And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.'" This is the background for verse 4:24 of the Qur'an. Not only does Allah grant permission for women to be captured and raped, but allows it to even be done in front of their husbands. (See also Muslim 3432)

    Abu Dawud 1814 - "...[Abu Bakr] He then began to beat [his slave] him while the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) was smiling and saying: Look at this man who is in the sacred state (putting on ihram), what is he doing?" The future first caliph of Islam is beating his slave for losing a camel while Muhammad looks on in apparent amusement.

    Ibn Ishaq (734) - A slave girl is given a "violent beating" by Ali in the presence of Muhammad, who does nothing about it.

    Ibn Ishaq (693) - "Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." Muhammad trades away women captured from the Banu Qurayza tribe to non-Muslim slave traders for property. (Their men had been executed after surrendering peacefully without a fight).

    4. Now that thats out of the way lets get on to.......


    Wow. "striking your wife is your right as a husband".

    Really.......did you REALLY just say that? Well how do i put this.....no. Its not. Beating your wife isn't a "right", its abuse.
    -And this is coming from the religion who clothes there women for less "provocation", because beating your wife never leads to rape.
    B) No, men get more inheritance because in Islam they are worth more than a woman.
    C). You just put that there are more men than women, and you are saying that justifies polygamy?

    5.
    A) I never said I was. But that is the Christian belief. You just aren't educated enough to realize that apparently.
    D) Because intolerance of Jews isn't obvious enough in your religion.

    6. Since the topic is your religion's founder, the pedophile. Which by the way, you haven't denied. I highly doubt the guy who only lived half his life as a prophet, and even then fucked up everything, is the "purest guy on earth". I could name some people in jail more pure than Muhammed.
    7. Oh no, more insults to Christians and and obvious lack of knowledge on their religion...... I don't care, never will. Sorry the ad hominem isn't going to work here.(you should know that by now kid).
    -----------------------------------------------------------------


    So you:

    -Did not prove me wrong.
    -Tried to attack christianity(for some sad reason idk why).
    -Just dug your hole deeper.


    Better luck next time kid.


  13. #73
    سبحان الله وبحمدة سبحان الله العظيم
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post



    1. You didn't even respond to the verses you posted. Why bother responding to more?
    -It does not mandate it. It merely says "hey feed families or free a slave".
    2.
    A) Except the wars had no justifiable reason in the first place.
    B) And the pow's were made into slaves.
    C) Which were owned by muslims.
    -OH the hadith? Sweet.
     

    Bukhari (80:753) - "The Prophet said, 'The freed slave belongs to the people who have freed him.'"

    Bukhari (52:255) - The slave who accepts Islam and continues serving his Muslim master will receive a double reward in heaven.

    Bukhari (41.598) - Slaves are property. They cannot be freed if an owner has outstanding debt, but can be used to pay off the debt.

    Bukhari (62:137) - An account of women taken as slaves in battle by Muhammad's men after their husbands and fathers were killed. The woman were raped with Muhammad's approval.

    Bukhari (34:432) - Another account of females taken captive and raped with Muhammad's approval. In this case it is evident that the Muslims intend on selling the women after raping them because they are concerned about devaluing their price by impregnating them. Muhammad is asked about coitus interruptus.

    Bukhari (47.765) - A woman is rebuked by Muhammad for freeing a slave girl. The prophet tells her that she would have gotten a greater heavenly reward by giving her to a relative (as a slave).

    Bukhari (34:351) - Muhammad sells a slave for money. He was thus a slave trader.

    Bukhari (72:734) - Some contemporary Muslims in the West, where slavery is believed to be a horrible crime, are reluctant to believe that Muhammad owned slaves. This is just one of many places in the Hadith where a reference is made to a human being owned by Muhammad. In this case, the slave is of African descent.

    Muslim 3901 - Muhammad trades away two black slaves for one Muslim slave.

    Muslim 4112 - A man freed six slaves on the event of his death, but Muhammad reversed the emancipation and kept four in slavery to himself. He cast lots to determine which two to free.

    Bukhari (47:743) - Muhammad's own pulpit - from which he preached Islam - was built with slave labor on his command.

    Bukhari (59:637) - "The Prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, 'Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?' When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, 'O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?' I said, 'Yes.' He said, 'Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus.'" Muhammad approved of his men having sex with slaves, as this episode involving his son-in-law, Ali, clearly proves. This hadith refutes the modern apologists who pretend that slaves were really "wives," since Muhammad had forbidden Ali from marrying another woman as long as Fatima (his favorite daughter) was living.

    Abu Dawud (2150) - "The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Qur'an 4:24) 'And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.'" This is the background for verse 4:24 of the Qur'an. Not only does Allah grant permission for women to be captured and raped, but allows it to even be done in front of their husbands. (See also Muslim 3432)

    Abu Dawud 1814 - "...[Abu Bakr] He then began to beat [his slave] him while the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) was smiling and saying: Look at this man who is in the sacred state (putting on ihram), what is he doing?" The future first caliph of Islam is beating his slave for losing a camel while Muhammad looks on in apparent amusement.

    Ibn Ishaq (734) - A slave girl is given a "violent beating" by Ali in the presence of Muhammad, who does nothing about it.

    Ibn Ishaq (693) - "Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." Muhammad trades away women captured from the Banu Qurayza tribe to non-Muslim slave traders for property. (Their men had been executed after surrendering peacefully without a fight).

    4. Now that thats out of the way lets get on to.......


    Wow. "striking your wife is your right as a husband".

    Really.......did you REALLY just say that? Well how do i put this.....no. Its not. Beating your wife isn't a "right", its abuse.
    -And this is coming from the religion who clothes there women for less "provocation", because beating your wife never leads to rape.
    B) No, men get more inheritance because in Islam they are worth more than a woman.
    C). You just put that there are more men than women, and you are saying that justifies polygamy?

    5.
    A) I never said I was. But that is the Christian belief. You just aren't educated enough to realize that apparently.
    D) Because intolerance of Jews isn't obvious enough in your religion.

    6. Since the topic is your religion's founder, the pedophile. Which by the way, you haven't denied. I highly doubt the guy who only lived half his life as a prophet, and even then fucked up everything, is the "purest guy on earth". I could name some people in jail more pure than Muhammed.
    7. Oh no, more insults to Christians and and obvious lack of knowledge on their religion...... I don't care, never will. Sorry the ad hominem isn't going to work here.(you should know that by now kid).
    -----------------------------------------------------------------


    So you:

    -Did not prove me wrong.
    -Tried to attack christianity(for some sad reason idk why).
    -Just dug your hole deeper.


    Better luck next time kid.
    Send me those Hadiths in Arabic, because I can't find them anywhere.

    it said strike not beat. its different.
    I hate Jews because I have reason to justify that, and same as most of the Muslims in the world.
    Like I said, Men have families to take care of and feed, so they must have a higher percentage.
    nothing wrong in polygamy as long as your fair with everyone.

    6.

    The Quran is gods words, and what ever it say and mention its OKAY for me no matter what, kills those who do evil in earth? will do.
    I believe its god words because of the proofs i mentioned before and because it is not distorted and will never be distorted, therefore everything in it is perfect.
    and it said that Muhammad is the purest and the last Prophet from god, 1400 years later and no Prophet showed up, just like the Quran said.

    7.
    Christians are wrong and mistakable because they believe that Jesus is gods son, and because their "bibleS" are distorted.

    -if I didn't prove you wrong, you will realize that you was wrong yourself soon or later.
    - I said what Christianity is truely is.
    - X.X

  14. #74
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    @Empire , You do realize that things change and how humans see things change over time? Everybody was enslaving, raping, pillaging each other thousands of years ago. The old Bible preached so much murder and hate it was equivalent to the Qur'an. Thing is the Qur'an has never been altered therefore it still has the same morals and teachings of the past.

    Thing is the Qur'an has not been altered so people still follow those beliefs, but the Bible has been changed to teach different beliefs.
    Why can't we get over that people have different views of life, and the whole "Islam hates Jews". The Jews have provoked Islam just as much as the Muslims have provoked them.

  15. #75
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Send me those Hadiths in Arabic, because I can't find them anywhere.

    it said strike not beat. its different.
    I hate Jews because I have reason to justify that, and same as most of the Muslims in the world.
    Like I said, Men have families to take care of and feed, so they must have a higher percentage.
    nothing wrong in polygamy as long as your fair with everyone.

    6.

    The Quran is gods words, and what ever it say and mention its OKAY for me no matter what, kills those who do evil in earth? will do.
    I believe its god words because of the proofs i mentioned before and because it is not distorted and will never be distorted, therefore everything in it is perfect.
    and it said that Muhammad is the purest and the last Prophet from god, 1400 years later and no Prophet showed up, just like the Quran said.

    7.
    Christians are wrong and mistakable because they believe that Jesus is gods son, and because their "bibleS" are distorted.

    -if I didn't prove you wrong, you will realize that you was wrong yourself soon or later.
    - I said what Christianity is truely is.
    - X.X
    1.Find them yourself. I'm not going to simply look up each one in arabic just to post it to you, learn how to google..
    ------------
    2. Really, how is it different? I'm curious..
    ------------------------------
    3. You have a reason to hate people following a religion? Oh please, do tell me more.(I'm really interested here).
    -------------------------------------
    4. Except it doesn't state "if the men have a family", and women have families too so your point is invalid.
    ------------------------
    5. Really? You think a man can love 10 wives equally? You really are naive.(probably never had a girlfriend lol).
    -------------------------------------
    6. Except its not "ok" to just kill people. This is why you stupid fucks are called terrorist. Because you believe so blindly in the quran, you do not think for yourself, and are easily led to believe a lie that is told by your superiors.
    ------------------------
    7. Yet you believe the bible and torah! What a hypocritical statement.

    You pick and choose what you believe from the bible and torah, yet you think they are false. Oh jesus was a prophet? You believe Islam is the following of the Abrahamic religions? How? If you do not believe the books from which those two originated, you are simply saying you believe in bullshit.

    Example: In a book there are 3 chapters.

    Judaism states that there is only 1 chapter.
    Christianity states that chapter 2 is a continuation of chapter 1.
    Islam states that chapter 3 is a continuation of both 1 and 2, but both 1 and 2 are completely invalid.(meaning they don't count). So in itself Islam is just chapter 3, claiming but not supporting chapters 1 and 2.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm honestly not surprised you know so little about your own religion. I am surprised why you constantly think disproving christianity proves Islam correct.


    ---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian View Post
    @Empire , You do realize that things change and how humans see things change over time? Everybody was enslaving, raping, pillaging each other thousands of years ago. The old Bible preached so much murder and hate it was equivalent to the Qur'an. Thing is the Qur'an has never been altered therefore it still has the same morals and teachings of the past.

    Thing is the Qur'an has not been altered so people still follow those beliefs, but the Bible has been changed to teach different beliefs.
    Why can't we get over that people have different views of life, and the whole "Islam hates Jews". The Jews have provoked Islam just as much as the Muslims have provoked them.
    Your argument is beyond flawed here.
    1. Oh ok, so slavery, rape, and looting is fine, just so long as God says its ok.
    2. Last time I checked, the bible being wrong doesn't prove the quran right.

    3. And no, The Jews aren't even in score with the Muslims, not by a long shot. Not even in the last 50 years.


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