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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoAwayNever View Post
    let me explain to you for all happning to world some people is taking islam as thier flag and they appear they fight for islam and etc... but in thier mind they make them selves like this to do personal things so because of them islam appears awfull but all that is wrong islam is peacfull and it invite you to think to think about the world who made this world and the space ofcu there is must be a Great god that he made all that and he can make anything don't tell me there isn't any proof about that Quran doesn't have proof it have proof but Who will find proof i will tell you the one who is Really searching about the truth and doesn't open videos and he is in his mind saying to himself that all thiese are wrong will not find the proof cause he is not honest with himself if are searching for the truth you will find it with any way take it from me and don't listen from people who make themselves know islam and etc.. gain the knowlge from the right person and have really knowlge about islam not have a fake informations about islam
    Islam being peaceful is hilarious.


    Tell me, what makes you think that Islam is peaceful.

    The quran? I can find several verses that approve of war.
    Muhammed? Led an army!
    The Islamic people of Muhammed's time? Civil war, conquest, and pretty much everything standard with war at that time.
    Islam's take on slavery? Still ok to have slaves, Saudi Arabia banned slavery in 1962 lol.


    :/ This is just a joke.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Islam being peaceful is hilarious.


    Tell me, what makes you think that Islam is peaceful.

    The quran? I can find several verses that approve of war.
    Muhammed? Led an army!
    The Islamic people of Muhammed's time? Civil war, conquest, and pretty much everything standard with war at that time.
    Islam's take on slavery? Still ok to have slaves, Saudi Arabia banned slavery in 1962 lol.


    :/ This is just a joke.
    Quran tell us To fight who fight us + you read the Quran ofcuorse no and ofc you heared about these varese only Muhammed You don't know profet muhammed History and there is many many many proves that Quran comed from a Powerfull god If you are honest and want to search for the truth you will find many Proofs about that and if you are tired of searching i will give you some videos of that but first Don't insult our religion cause i didn't insult yours and my religion makes me not to insults other people religion And we must respect it and we belive Jesus and Mousa are prohets but Jesus not God he is a prohet My english is bad cause it is not my main language

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoAwayNever View Post
    Quran tell us To fight who fight us + you read the Quran ofcuorse no and ofc you heared about these varese only Muhammed You don't know profet muhammed History and there is many many many proves that Quran comed from a Powerfull god If you are honest and want to search for the truth you will find many Proofs about that and if you are tired of searching i will give you some videos of that but first Don't insult our religion cause i didn't insult yours and my religion makes me not to insults other people religion And we must respect it and we belive Jesus and Mousa are prohets but Jesus not God he is a prohet My english is bad cause it is not my main language
    :/ I'm not insulting your religion at all.

    I am merely stating that Islam is not peaceful, never has been, and realistically, never will be.


    To my knowledge no war of Islam was fought in "defense", ever.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    :/ I'm not insulting your religion at all.

    I am merely stating that Islam is not peaceful, never has been, and realistically, never will be.


    To my knowledge no war of Islam was fought in "defense", ever.
    I know what are you talking about recently recently there are some people who make them selves real muslims and make wars with EU US and Isreal and they kill in the name of Islame but those are not muslims they just don't know any thing about islam they just approve thier personal benifets

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    What does Islam teach as far as violence is concerned? Looking at the Qur'an, we see that quite a lot is said about this subject. Muslim apologists will often point to Surah 2:190-193 as proof that Islam teaches only defensive warfare, but eschews offense.

    "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they first fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression."

    These verses, it is said, admonish Muslims only to fight against those who oppress or persecute Muslims, and only until the offenders have stopped oppressing Muslims. However, there is a catch to all this. The Qur'an also teaches for Muslims to enter into exile in lands where Islam is not the dominant force, and to stir up trouble, so that this persecution will come as the natives in those lands protect the integrity of their sovereignty and civilization.

    "Those who believed, and adopted exile, and fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave them asylum and aid,- these are all friends and protectors, one of another. As to those who believed but came not into exile, ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile; but if they seek your aid in religion, it is your duty to help them, except against a people with whom ye have a treaty of mutual alliance. And remember Allah seeth all that ye do. The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, protect each other, there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief." (Surah 8:72-73)
    Last edited by Matroix73; 07-30-2013 at 05:02 PM.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    :/ I'm not insulting your religion at all.

    I am merely stating that Islam is not peaceful, never has been, and realistically, never will be.


    To my knowledge no war of Islam was fought in "defense", ever.
    "Indeed, Allah defends those who have believed. Indeed, Allah does not like everyone treacherous and ungrateful. Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory." 22:39-40
    And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Islam being peaceful is hilarious.


    Tell me, what makes you think that Islam is peaceful.

    The quran? I can find several verses that approve of war.
    Muhammed? Led an army!
    The Islamic people of Muhammed's time? Civil war, conquest, and pretty much everything standard with war at that time.
    Islam's take on slavery? Still ok to have slaves, Saudi Arabia banned slavery in 1962 lol.


    :/ This is just a joke.
    Hello brother , I'm going to disapprove some conditions and clear some condition. ( god willing ).

    First thing
    The quran? I can find several verses that approve of war.
    "And speak good (words) to people." (2:83)
    “And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses, etc.) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect, etc.) to what is reasonable”
    [Qur'an 2:228].

    208. "O' you who have Faith! enter you all into submission (to Allah in being in peace), and follow not the footsteps of Satan, for he is a manifest foe for you."
    209. "But if you slip after clear arguments have come to you, then know that Allah is the Mighty, the Wise."
    Qur'an 2:208-209
    Invite (all) to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and discuss with them in ways that are best and most gracious (Qur’an 16:125)
    Let there be no compulsion in religion (Qur’an 2:256)
    And many others including what the brothers said in the first posts .

    War , right ? All the conquests were to share Islam around the world .... slaughter the Jewish / Christians ? Not really brother.

    Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth (even if they are) People of the Book, until they pay Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (Qur’an 9:29);
    I'm sure that you're going to say , but these people who don't have a money or what ever to pay the Jizya ? The Muslims were paying it for him , he cannot work to get money ? The Muslims were paying the Jizya for him and they was giving him money every month.

    About
    Muhammed? Led an army!
    The Islamic people of Muhammed's time? Civil war, conquest, and pretty much everything standard with war at that time.
    I assume you got it from the first disapprove , If you want another things , I can disapprove this also but If you didn't get it.

    Islam's take on slavery? Still ok to have slaves, Saudi Arabia banned slavery in 1962 lol.
    Islam banned slavery ... true story , I shouldn't care If Saudi Arabia didn't or did , take as an example Egypt , there weren't any slavery after Islam until now , Why should I care ? I care about the religion not the country , the religion banned the slavery then the religion is true , the country didn't not religion's fault , the religion said peace and the terrorists of Al Qaeda or whatever said no peace not the religion's fault .... I hope you get it brother , Peace , If you wanted me to answer anything You're welcomed for sure.

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  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoAwayNever View Post
    I know what are you talking about recently recently there are some people who make them selves real muslims and make wars with EU US and Isreal and they kill in the name of Islame but those are not muslims they just don't know any thing about islam they just approve thier personal benifets
    I'm actually not talking about modern times. I would, but people seem to have a very odd opinion of such topics, and racism, unreliable media, and ignorance of facts comes into play.

    No, I was talking about the history of Islam in general, from the start to now really.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    "Indeed, Allah defends those who have believed. Indeed, Allah does not like everyone treacherous and ungrateful. Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory." 22:39-40
    Ok just wondering what your take on this was:
    Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Quote Originally Posted by Transporter- View Post
    Hello brother , I'm going to disapprove some conditions and clear some condition. ( god willing ).

    First thing











    And many others including what the brothers said in the first posts .

    War , right ? All the conquests were to share Islam around the world .... slaughter the Jewish / Christians ? Not really brother.



    I'm sure that you're going to say , but these people who don't have a money or what ever to pay the Jizya ? The Muslims were paying it for him , he cannot work to get money ? The Muslims were paying the Jizya for him and they was giving him money every month.

    About

    I assume you got it from the first disapprove , If you want another things , I can disapprove this also but If you didn't get it.


    Islam banned slavery ... true story , I shouldn't care If Saudi Arabia didn't or did , take as an example Egypt , there weren't any slavery after Islam until now , Why should I care ? I care about the religion not the country , the religion banned the slavery then the religion is true , the country didn't not religion's fault , the religion said peace and the terrorists of Al Qaeda or whatever said no peace not the religion's fault .... I hope you get it brother , Peace , If you wanted me to answer anything You're welcomed for sure.
    Ok let me just be quick.

    1. Actions taken vs. words spoken.
    Islam and the muslims used conquest, looting, and general oppression of non-muslims to spread Islam.
    Islam did not ban slavery, it continued to flourish for about another thousand years after muhammed.

    2. Jihzya, was really just material proof of Islamic subjugation.

    3. I'm going to repeat this.

    Actions taken, are more important than words spoken.

    Now there are plenty of Islamic verses in the quran and surah that involve acts of war, conquest, and looting. But do I really need to debate your own book to you?

    I'm just more interested in what people did than what they said.


  12. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    I'm actually not talking about modern times. I would, but people seem to have a very odd opinion of such topics, and racism, unreliable media, and ignorance of facts comes into play.

    No, I was talking about the history of Islam in general, from the start to now really.



    Ok just wondering what your take on this was:
    Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




    Ok let me just be quick.

    1. Actions taken vs. words spoken.
    Islam and the muslims used conquest, looting, and general oppression of non-muslims to spread Islam.
    Islam did not ban slavery, it continued to flourish for about another thousand years after muhammed.

    2. Jihzya, was really just material proof of Islamic subjugation.

    3. I'm going to repeat this.

    Actions taken, are more important than words spoken.

    Now there are plenty of Islamic verses in the quran and surah that involve acts of war, conquest, and looting. But do I really need to debate your own book to you?

    I'm just more interested in what people did than what they said.

    i am really with you that actions is more important than words verses that you are talken about Gabryl Came from god and give it Muhammed to tell him what to do and The Place that he lived in Was Maka and i think you know that and The people there were fighting him cause of his religion etc.. then he went anthore town that made his army to go to Maka and fight them and then here Muhammed Collect all Maka's People and then told them "go you are free" and then here he show his mercy and anthore thing When profet Muhammed Was in the anthore town a Jewish Women Told him to Cary here things And Make him tired by going in many ways and here house She told him that there was a Profet Muhammed don't go in his religion Then muhammed told here he was The profet then she went to islam and more and more situations like that You can really read some books from google about Islam History if you can talk arabic and have skype we can have a long talk about that but i can't write the whole story of islam From Muhammed to Akolfa al Rashdyn But i think that you read books about them that aren't real a Fake stories that show you islam is bad etc.. but if you read the real books of Islam story you will understand everything Islam invite you to think and The biggest thing that convince my words that people in Eu and US that have a great knowlge and read Quran with a clean Mind they all turn to Muslims And if you realy intreasted to find the truth i can help you to find it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    I'm actually not talking about modern times. I would, but people seem to have a very odd opinion of such topics, and racism, unreliable media, and ignorance of facts comes into play.

    No, I was talking about the history of Islam in general, from the start to now really.



    Ok just wondering what your take on this was:
    Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




    Ok let me just be quick.

    1. Actions taken vs. words spoken.
    Islam and the muslims used conquest, looting, and general oppression of non-muslims to spread Islam.
    Islam did not ban slavery, it continued to flourish for about another thousand years after muhammed.

    2. Jihzya, was really just material proof of Islamic subjugation.

    3. I'm going to repeat this.

    Actions taken, are more important than words spoken.

    Now there are plenty of Islamic verses in the quran and surah that involve acts of war, conquest, and looting. But do I really need to debate your own book to you?

    I'm just more interested in what people did than what they said.
    You told me words spoken are not important like actions taken , then why there is words spoken ? to take actions !!!

    Here are the actions:
    1-"Islam" banned slavery , but the other countries not the problem .... action ? Abu Bakar EL Sdeek - freed many slaves when the Islam was in makka only , then they went to Madena .

    2-The action ? Omar Ibn El Khtab - A jew poor man who couldn't work and couldn't pay the Jizyah , he payed it from him and gave him some money.

    I gave you plenty of verses in the Qur'an that declares peace , now disapprove it with your verses which you see it isn't peace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transformer- View Post
    You told me words spoken are not important like actions taken , then why there is words spoken ? to take actions !!!

    Here are the actions:
    1-"Islam" banned slavery , but the other countries not the problem .... action ? Abu Bakar EL Sdeek - freed many slaves when the Islam was in makka only , then they went to Madena .

    2-The action ? Omar Ibn El Khtab - A jew poor man who couldn't work and couldn't pay the Jizyah , he payed it from him and gave him some money.

    I gave you plenty of verses in the Qur'an that declares peace , now disapprove it with your verses which you see it isn't peace.
    1. Islam didn't ban slavery. Heck there are entire surah's or hadiths talking about the slavery trade.
    2. Cool, uh one person? That obviously wasn't the case for 99.999% of everyone else.


    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
    but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"


    Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

    Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

    Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

    Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"

    Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."








    Sorry, what was that about the Quran and peace?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    1. Islam didn't ban slavery. Heck there are entire surah's or hadiths talking about the slavery trade.
    2. Cool, uh one person? That obviously wasn't the case for 99.999% of everyone else.


    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
    but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"


    Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

    Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

    Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

    Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"

    Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."








    Sorry, what was that about the Quran and peace?
    Hohohohhohho , lemme reply one by one , it would take a time but just to disapprove it...

    1- the first one:
    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
    but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
    Actually before this verses you posted , it was completing it , see the whole one.
    Qur'an (2:190-193)
    Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
    And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
    And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
    First of all It is started by "and" which means you cannot post it only , but post the whole thing until it stop saying "and" ... cool story bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Ok just wondering what your take on this was:
    Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Its called building an Empire, so other nations don't keep invading us and attacking us when ever they want, just like whats happening today.
    Big empire all united everyone altogether become a strong powerful nation.
    And like they say; Best defense is a good offense
    And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
    Let's get back again:
    Qur'an (2:215) - "They ask you, [O Muhammad], what they should spend. Say, "Whatever you spend of good is [to be] for parents and relatives and orphans and the needy and the traveler. And whatever you do of good - indeed, Allah is Knowing of it."
    "
    What is they stands for ? Lemme show it for you ,
    Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you
    , pretty explained , isn't it? cutting a verses from a whole Surah isn't good at all , then why It was made in a "Surah" , like the unit in the English book , unit 1 unit 2 unit 3 etc.... why ? because unit 1 is talking about the same subject ... although I didn't study the Qur'an fully , but I know it is the truth .

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Its called building an Empire, so other nations don't keep invading us and attacking us when ever they want, just like whats happening today.
    Big empire all united everyone altogether become a strong powerful nation.
    And like they say; Best defense is a good offense
    :/ I know what they did, I know how they did it, and I know why.

    But all three things just prove Islam is not a religion of peace. So you kind of just proved it for me.


    ---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Transformer- View Post
    Hohohohhohho , lemme reply one by one , it would take a time but just to disapprove it...

    1- the first one:

    Actually before this verses you posted , it was completing it , see the whole one.
    Qur'an (2:190-193)
    First of all It is started by "and" which means you cannot post it only , but post the whole thing until it stop saying "and" ... cool story bro.
    You are arguing that I am taking it "out of context" by not completing the entire verse, correct?

    Still says it. Which kind of makes your argument invalid.

    Example: Do this random thing AND kill all the bunnies in the world.

    It still says "kill all the bunnies", so its not exactly "out of context" here.


    ---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Transformer- View Post
    Let's get back again:
    Qur'an (2:215) - "They ask you, [O Muhammad], what they should spend. Say, "Whatever you spend of good is [to be] for parents and relatives and orphans and the needy and the traveler. And whatever you do of good - indeed, Allah is Knowing of it."
    "
    What is they stands for ? Lemme show it for you , , pretty explained , isn't it? cutting a verses from a whole Surah isn't good at all , then why It was made in a "Surah" , like the unit in the English book , unit 1 unit 2 unit 3 etc.... why ? because unit 1 is talking about the same subject ... although I didn't study the Qur'an fully , but I know it is the truth .
    Again, you are arguing I didn't quote the entire quran, which doesn't prove anything actually, even in the scenarios you've posted.


    Still looking like a dumbass trying to prove Islam is a "religion of peace" lol. You couldn't refute even one of those? Tch, lame.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Let me enlighten you about how arguments should be.


    In religious text, yes, there are verses before and after the verse quoted. The entire book is several hundred versus long. Claiming someone did not give the correct context in a single verse is fine. What isn't fine is that when you provide the verse you claimed would give context and clear things up: it does nothing of the sort. All it does is show that there was verse with relevance to the quoted, but does nothing to your argument that the verse was quoted indirectly.
    Last edited by Empire; 07-31-2013 at 04:11 PM.


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