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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by samerlol View Post
    These wars were necessary to share and invite all the people in the world, to know there is prophet and there is hell and and there is paradise, but do any one can belive in something from listen to it? No ofcourse, he gift to us somethings to let people belive that this is not written by humans.

    You might misunderstood Muslims and Islamic rules, go and ready there history from began.
    religion fucked your mind, live freely as an atheist

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    No, listen here:
    Killing any being who is threatening the life of an Islamic person is allowed, by any means.
    Captured enemies are to be used as slaves, captured women are to be used as sex-slaves, you can't deny that.


    "If any of you who do not have the means to marry free women who are believing, you may marry believing girls from whom your right hands possess. Allah knows best about your faith; you are all same in that respect. Marry them with the approval of their families and give them their gifts (dowries) correctly and courteously as married women, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. When they are married, if they commit adultery they should receive half the punishment of (ordinary) chaste women. This is for those of you who are afraid of falling into sin. But being patient is better for you. Allah is Ever-forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 4:25)
    http://www.quranicpath.com/misconcep...oncubines.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    According to the religion, even the most sinful muslim is worth more than an extremely well non-muslim.
    Basically: if you're a muslim who has raped 2000 kids, you're still worth more than an innocent non-muslim.
    Indeed, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire - and never will you find for them a helper - 4:145

    Give tidings to the hypocrites that there is for them a painful punishment - 4:138

    Indeed, the hypocrites [think to] deceive Allah , but He is deceiving them. And when they stand for prayer, they stand lazily, showing [themselves to] the people and not remembering Allah except a little, - 4:142

    So woe to those who pray [But] who are heedless of their prayer Those who make show [of their deeds] And withhold [simple] assistance.-107:4-7

    And among those around you of the bedouins are hypocrites, and [also] from the people of Madinah. They have become accustomed to hypocrisy. You, [O Muhammad], do not know them, [but] We know them. We will punish them twice [in this world]; then they will be returned to a great punishment. -9:101
    http://www.answering-christianity.co...hypocrites.htm


    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    It's been proven since the birth of the islam: the very own man who tried to kill the prophet Mohammed and prevent the Islam of reaching a high level was spared and later giving a high position because he 'converted' in order not to get killed.
    Who are you talking about and what proof do you he converted for the reason of not being killed instead of regarding Islam as the truth?

    - - - Updated - - -

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex0rPl4net View Post
    thats the issue.

    your "god" isnt sending any "orders" these "holy books" are definitely human written.

    humans want war,humans always wanted war,and humans will always want war. but muslims are the only ones that want the "old times" back where wars were acceptable and killing people was acceptable
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 12-27-2014 at 07:45 AM.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  3. #213
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    "If two groups of Muslims quarrel, other Muslims should make peace between them
    If a group of Muslims oppresses another group of Muslims, fight it collectively till it ceases oppression, and make peace with justice. (Quran 4:9-10)"

    The sunnis and sjieėts even hate each other.. I mean c'mon, that has to mean something.

    "4:24 And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Sayyid A’La Abul Maududi, The Meaning of the Quran, vol. 1, p. 319)."
    Basically, you can fuck slaves.


    I've been where you are broski, I was defending the Islamic religion just like you, but as time passed along with lots of meditation and philosophy, I learned that a God is just a mere human creation.

    Your quotes about the hypocrites is basically the same as I said.. No non-muslim, no matter how much of a good person he was, shall ever receive the same treatment as a muslim.
    --

    That one I've seen in the islamic school. It came from an animation, and the teacher did not neglect it either.
    It was a Dutch animated movie called de Laatste Profeet.
    It was pro-Islam but you get my point.
    Also, don't be a fool, do you really believe in a 'buraaq'? I mean c'mon, a man with no 'privileges' cuts the moon in half, travels 1000s of kilometers on a 'flying thunderhorse' or w/e it was.

    C'mon bro
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  4. #214
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    [COLOR="Black"]The quran is written by humans, repeating what muhammed said, and in some instances some of what muhammed said was "from god".

    It's not like the actual physical copy of the quran is some supernatural event, it's that the content is supposed to be copied from god at parts.

    .

    A lot of what the Quran states isn't really groundbreaking, nor can you dismiss any of it as being written by humans for manipulating other humans.

    It's just another holy book./COLOR]
    Last edited by Empire; 12-27-2014 at 07:33 PM.


  5. #215
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    Cause the Bad ones gets publicity and the goods ones sit and do nothing

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    "If two groups of Muslims quarrel, other Muslims should make peace between them
    If a group of Muslims oppresses another group of Muslims, fight it collectively till it ceases oppression, and make peace with justice. (Quran 4:9-10)"

    The sunnis and sjieėts even hate each other.. I mean c'mon, that has to mean something.

    "4:24 And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Sayyid A’La Abul Maududi, The Meaning of the Quran, vol. 1, p. 319)."
    Basically, you can fuck slaves.


    I've been where you are broski, I was defending the Islamic religion just like you, but as time passed along with lots of meditation and philosophy, I learned that a God is just a mere human creation.

    Your quotes about the hypocrites is basically the same as I said.. No non-muslim, no matter how much of a good person he was, shall ever receive the same treatment as a muslim.
    --

    That one I've seen in the islamic school. It came from an animation, and the teacher did not neglect it either.
    It was a Dutch animated movie called de Laatste Profeet.
    It was pro-Islam but you get my point.
    Also, don't be a fool, do you really believe in a 'buraaq'? I mean c'mon, a man with no 'privileges' cuts the moon in half, travels 1000s of kilometers on a 'flying thunderhorse' or w/e it was.

    C'mon bro
    you might said sunnah and shea, I will end this with one word, if they are muslims and khomini is a prophet of god, give some evidences.
    sunnah never want war with them parts but shea wants to kill all muslims who don't belive in khomini, what do you think sunnah had to do ? see some people saying we are muslims too and killing us? ofcaurse no, he have to defend them selfs and people like this cause they don't give the right message of god.

    When a prophet came with message of god, he have to get some Miracles to show people that god had sent hime to invite them to relgion For example: Isaa عليه السلام one of prophet of god, god had gift to him some miracles like relife who were dead (with god's permission) etc, also muhammad god had gift him some mircales to show his people and generations he is prophet of god and last of them and one of these Miracles is " The Holy Quraan", holy quraan is not like any book you find in store, it's pure( I don't have a good word to give the meaning) and it's Miracle to end of the world, Also god gift to muhammad to see the future and how muslims life will be and he told us what will happens. Be sure Magicians can't give you infomation or magics in the future.


    Don't forget that muhammad(صلى الله عليه و سلم) was illiterated( he can't read and write) this is big mircal some one who cant read and write is doing these things.

    To see that it's not any book in any store.

    these holy quraan :


    http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1.htm
    http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/5195/

    Islamic relgion is simple for who want to see it simple and it's Complex for who wants to see it Complex.
    I am a Muslim and I Love prophet #Jesus. I cannot call myself a Muslim unless I believe in and honor Jesus, peace be upon him. His miraculous birth brought an enormous amount of goodness and light to this world. May we draw closer to all the prophets of Allah.
    #MuslimsLoveJesusToo

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by samerlol View Post
    you might said sunnah and shea, I will end this with one word, if they are muslims and khomini is a prophet of god, give some evidences.
    I'm sorry but where do you draw the line on "evidence"?

    I don't see any evidence for the Islamic god, much less any of the "miracles" that happened. Yet you ask for evidence as if any of Islam is based on evidence to begin with.


    It just seemed....hypocritical(?) for someone to ask for evidence at a particular point in a belief when all of it is based upon faith.


  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    I'm sorry but where do you draw the line on "evidence"?

    I don't see any evidence for the Islamic god, much less any of the "miracles" that happened. Yet you ask for evidence as if any of Islam is based on evidence to begin with.


    It just seemed....hypocritical(?) for someone to ask for evidence at a particular point in a belief when all of it is based upon faith.
    What i meant in "evidence" is Proof.
    I am a Muslim and I Love prophet #Jesus. I cannot call myself a Muslim unless I believe in and honor Jesus, peace be upon him. His miraculous birth brought an enormous amount of goodness and light to this world. May we draw closer to all the prophets of Allah.
    #MuslimsLoveJesusToo

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    [COLOR="Black"]The quran is written by humans, repeating what muhammed said, and in some instances some of what muhammed said was "from god".

    It's not like the actual physical copy of the quran is some supernatural event, it's that the content is supposed to be copied from god at parts.

    .

    A lot of what the Quran states isn't really groundbreaking, nor can you dismiss any of it as being written by humans for manipulating other humans.

    It's just another holy book./COLOR]
    Actually all the verses in the Quran were from God not just some. Then again you would have known that if you read the Quran and it is one proof in a long list of proofs that you haven't read it. The Quran was already compiled and completed during the life of Prophet Muhammad pbuh, all that happened after his death was that it was written down. After 1400 years there is only one version of the Quran and no other book has been preserved like the Quran. In the Quran, God promised to protect the Quran and that is what has happened.
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 12-28-2014 at 05:14 AM.

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  11. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Actually all the verses in the Quran were from God not just some. Then again you would know that if you read the Quran and it is a long list of proofs that you haven't read it. The Quran was already compiled and completed during the life of Prophet Muhammad pbuh, all that happened after his death was that it was written down. After 1400 years there is only one version of the Quran and no other book has been preserved like the Quran. In the Quran, God promised to protect the Quran and that is what has happened.
    I've read the Quran through and through and through mate. Taking the Quran as sufficient proof to kill others for or to die for is not sane, it makes no sense.
    If the prophet had come now, you wouldn't take that nonsense either would you? Then why do you take the wordsout of the Quran so easily?

    You have never seen proof and you can't tell me I'm wrong on that part.
    Miracles of Allah do not happen, because he is not there.
    The Quran is not protected by a God, the Quran is protected by millions of muslims. What do you think their reaction would be if the holy Ka'ba got nuked?
    Need a custom image title? Check out my thread





  12. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    "If two groups of Muslims quarrel, other Muslims should make peace between them
    If a group of Muslims oppresses another group of Muslims, fight it collectively till it ceases oppression, and make peace with justice. (Quran 4:9-10)"

    The sunnis and sjieėts even hate each other.. I mean c'mon, that has to mean something.

    The overwhelming majority of Muslims live in peace with each other. So what if a few ignorant Muslims hate each other, what is your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    "4:24 And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Sayyid A’La Abul Maududi, The Meaning of the Quran, vol. 1, p. 319)."
    Basically, you can fuck slaves.
    Why didn't you read what my post. That is a misconception the Quran itself says you cannot. There is no such thing as sex outside of marriage. You have to marry the slave before you can have sex, and if you marry a slave they are no longer a slave, they are your husband or wife.

    "If any of you who do not have the means to marry free women who are believing, you may marry believing girls from whom your right hands possess. Allah knows best about your faith; you are all same in that respect. Marry them with the approval of their families and give them their gifts (dowries) correctly and courteously as married women, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. When they are married, if they commit adultery they should receive half the punishment of (ordinary) chaste women. This is for those of you who are afraid of falling into sin. But being patient is better for you. Allah is Ever-forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 4:25)
    http://www.quranicpath.com/misconcep...oncubines.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    I've been where you are broski, I was defending the Islamic religion just like you, but as time passed along with lots of meditation and philosophy, I learned that a God is just a mere human creation.
    Islam does not need defending and that is not what I am doing. I am just clearing up misconceptions if I care enough to do so. You are not where I am. I don't make decisions based on ignorance which is why I don’t constantly change my belief and never have changed my belief. You know very little about Islam that is why you cannot tell the difference between what is true about Islam and what is false, when someone tells you something about Islam. As soon as I read an "argument" against Islam, I already think of an answer. Maybe you could also learn the past tense of learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Your quotes about the hypocrites is basically the same as I said.. No non-muslim, no matter how much of a good person he was, shall ever receive the same treatment as a muslim.
    Treatment from whom? No one knows everything about a person and no one can judge someone except God and no one knows the actions of God.
    --

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    That one I've seen in the islamic school. It came from an animation, and the teacher did not neglect it either.
    It was a Dutch animated movie called de Laatste Profeet.
    It was pro-Islam but you get my point.
    Also, don't be a fool, do you really believe in a 'buraaq'? I mean c'mon, a man with no 'privileges' cuts the moon in half, travels 1000s of kilometers on a 'flying thunderhorse' or w/e it was.

    C'mon bro
    Your proof is an animation? Yes I believe in it as I believe in miracles. Definition of a miracle: an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency.

    C’mon bro you don’t believe that something can form from nothing? That the Earth being at the right distance from the sun; the Earth having a electromagnetic field protecting us from solar flares; Jupiter’s gravitational field diverting the majority of asteroids away from Earth; the accidental invention of the first vaccine the first antibiotic; the presence of water on our planet; the moon stabilising the rotation of the earth preventing drastic climate changes; that from a single sperm and egg cell a human develops with their blood vessels, organs, bones all formed while all the mother is doing is eating and resting; is all just a mere coincidence? That is just to name a few.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    [FONT="Book Antiqua"][COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"][SIZE="2"]

    I've read the Quran through and through and through mate. Taking the Quran as sufficient proof to kill others for or to die for is not sane, it makes no sense.
    If the prophet had come now, you wouldn't take that nonsense either would you? Then why do you take the wordsout of the Quran so easily?
    What is wrong with you? You keep making random statements on things I wasn't even talking about when quoting me. Well you clearly haven't read the Quran thoroughly as you thought Islam allows sex with slaves. What are you talking about in your second sentence? Fighting in Islam is only permitted to defend not to kill: http://www.mpgh.net/forum/showthread.php?t=841011

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    You have never seen proof and you can't tell me I'm wrong on that part.
    Miracles of Allah do not happen, because he is not there.
    The Quran is not protected by a God, the Quran is protected by millions of muslims. What do you think their reaction would be if the holy Ka'ba got nuked?
    Right at the start of the Quran: This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah - Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, -2:2-3

    Miracles of Allah swt have happened. Prophet Muhammad pbuh was successful in his mission to give Gods message, he defeated all his enemies through the help of God, when overly outnumbered. Many of the prophecies in the Quran have come true. One being: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEm61zUaVpE
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 12-28-2014 at 09:00 AM.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  13. #222
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    some time muslim is work violently. this is very harm for country

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    Quote Originally Posted by samerlol View Post
    What i meant in "evidence" is Proof.
    Yes, I understand what evidence means. I'm asking where is the evidence for your god and why do you draw the line at evidence for a prophet when the Islamic belief is based on faith, not evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Actually all the verses in the Quran were from God not just some. Then again you would have known that if you read the Quran and it is one proof in a long list of proofs that you haven't read it. The Quran was already compiled and completed during the life of Prophet Muhammad pbuh, all that happened after his death was that it was written down. After 1400 years there is only one version of the Quran and no other book has been preserved like the Quran. In the Quran, God promised to protect the Quran and that is what has happened.
    Well no. They weren't. All the verse's origins were from Muhammad(as you just stated). Some of those are quotes from god, some are not, but they all originated in any objective sense from Muhammad, not god. There is no evidence that any of the quotes from god, were actually so.

    Reading the Quran does not prove the origins of the document. You don't believe every other holy book to be true when stating it's origins, and there must be a reason for that.
    ----------------------
    No other book? You mean like....every other ancient book that has been preserved like such? Seriously, how uneducated are you to think that the quran is special because it's been "preserved". There are many older books than the quran that have just as much preservation.
    -------------------------------------


  15. #224
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    Well no. They weren't. All the verse's origins were from Muhammad(as you just stated). Some of those are quotes from god, some are not, but they all originated in any objective sense from Muhammad, not god. There is no evidence that any of the quotes from god, were actually so.

    Reading the Quran does not prove the origins of the document. You don't believe every other holy book to be true when stating it's origins, and there must be a reason for that.
    ----------------------
    No other book? You mean like....every other ancient book that has been preserved like such? Seriously, how uneducated are you to think that the quran is special because it's been "preserved". There are many older books than the quran that have just as much preservation.
    -------------------------------------
    I was talking about what Muslims believe. Every verse from the Quran is a revelation from God, none of them were from prophet Muhammad pbuh. The only Narrator of the Quran is God no one else. It is all down to belief. When I read the Quran for the first time it felt as if God was talking to me, it felt like no person could have wrote it.

    Reading things can prove anything if it is backed up well. You read about the Earth being spherical, the Earth orbiting the Sun, the Sun being bigger than the moon etc. You didn't go to space to see it for yourself. Similar to that, reading the Quran can prove that it is from God. But remember that the Quran all people read is the same, what is different is the reader. It is all down to the reader. If they read with the aim to understand then they will believe it is from God, if they read with the aim to find fault then they will forever be in ignorance. Here is an example of two readers opinion on the following sentence:

    "The Sun is bigger than the moon."

    Reader with the aim to understand: That is a possibility because the distance things are viewed from affects how large something is.

    Reader with the aim to find fault: That is nonsense. When I see them in the sky they look like they are the same size. Sometimes I have seen the moon to be bigger than the Sun during specific times of the year.

    "Every other ancient book has been preserved?" Really? When it comes to the Bible which one is the "preserved" one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...e_translations
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 12-28-2014 at 03:54 PM.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  16. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Yes, I understand what evidence means. I'm asking where is the evidence for your god and why do you draw the line at evidence for a prophet when the Islamic belief is based on faith, not evidence.



    Well no. They weren't. All the verse's origins were from Muhammad(as you just stated). Some of those are quotes from god, some are not, but they all originated in any objective sense from Muhammad, not god. There is no evidence that any of the quotes from god, were actually so.

    Reading the Quran does not prove the origins of the document. You don't believe every other holy book to be true when stating it's origins, and there must be a reason for that.
    ----------------------
    No other book? You mean like....every other ancient book that has been preserved like such? Seriously, how uneducated are you to think that the quran is special because it's been "preserved". There are many older books than the quran that have just as much preservation.
    -------------------------------------

    I am not worry if you belived in allah as a god or not, because allah said in his book(holy quraan) "For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah . Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron."

    and this "Then is one to whom the evil of his deed has been made attractive so he considers it good [like one rightly guided]? For indeed, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself perish over them in regret. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do."
    I am a Muslim and I Love prophet #Jesus. I cannot call myself a Muslim unless I believe in and honor Jesus, peace be upon him. His miraculous birth brought an enormous amount of goodness and light to this world. May we draw closer to all the prophets of Allah.
    #MuslimsLoveJesusToo

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  5. I hate people.
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