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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Salam Aleykum bro,

    All those things are not true. Every group have some extremists, so people who hate Shias use what some extremists do to make people believe all Shias believe that. They are the same religion just different schools of thought. All Sunni schools of thought accept the Shia school of thought, the Jafari school of thought.

    Alaikum Asalam...

    well bro everytime i search shiaa in google image i see them doing some haram stuff
    (haram= god told us to not do it in his Quran)

    anyway please lets end this conversation about Muslims and shiaa...wish i could communicate with you but you know...mpgh rules >.< cant send privet massage yat..


    btw maybe you are right to be honest i heared there is 20 type of shiaa maybe there is some like normal Muslims.. but if that true why they got the name shiaa thn ?

  2. #197
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    Mate one thing is for sure Get your facts right before you talk about Islam And for you information All the terrorist attacks are becuase USA keep on putting there noise in there business also You dont just bring this up how would you like it if i talked about you religion? Islam Is the biggest Religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kbasd46 View Post
    Sorry, What is your problem ?

    we Muslims say (peace and bless upon him) every time we say name of god messenger or prophet like Mohamed,Essa(Jesus )and David(peace and bless upon them)
    nothing..im just being myself (peace and bless upon him)

    i thought you dont worship david jeez (peace and bless upon him)

  5. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post


    That should not be.
    If an atheïst loses it and starts shooting everyone around him, they'll call him a madman where religious views do not matter.

    Like, I'm a muslim right, I'm completely nuts and go hack a machete into a random woman, I've been educated with the Islam, so I'll go and scream Allahu Akbar all day long, not knowing I was doing one of the most forbidden things. In the first instance, it will look like I'm doing it for the Islam, but in honest reality, I'm just a retard who has lost it.
    I understand your point, but it shouldn't be like that.
    Well it is, and the BEST part of this is the Muslim hypocrisy:
    Person A does something bad = "He is not a real muslim!"
    Person A does something good = "He is a muslim and he did it because of Islam!"

    It's just brilliant.

    Also:
    You do know the people committing these acts probably know a lot more about Islam than you, right? They commit terrorism out of sheer ignorance.

    Also:
    Atheist can't do anything in the "name of atheism" because atheism has no structural basis. He's still an atheist though, no one will deny that.

    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    No I haven't. Which Muslim have I called a non-Muslim?
    *facepalm* are you serious?

    Do you not see the connection between you arguing that anyone who you think disobeys islamic ideals isn't a real muslim and you calling them non-muslim?

    I don't know if I could ever explain that to someone so ignorant.


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    Quote Originally Posted by kbasd46 View Post
    Alaikum Asalam...

    well bro everytime i search shiaa in google image i see them doing some haram stuff
    (haram= god told us to not do it in his Quran)

    anyway please lets end this conversation about Muslims and shiaa...wish i could communicate with you but you know...mpgh rules >.< cant send privet massage yat..


    btw maybe you are right to be honest i heared there is 20 type of shiaa maybe there is some like normal Muslims.. but if that true why they got the name shiaa thn ?
    The majority of Shia Muslims follow the Jafari school of thought, and when you refer to Muslims as Shia it means Muslims who follow that school of thought by default. There are other groups that are minorities such as the Alawis in Syria who worship Imam Ali astaghfirullah but they are not considered to be Shia as their beliefs are different from the majority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ex0rPl4net View Post
    nothing..im just being myself (peace and bless upon him)

    i thought you dont worship david jeez (peace and bless upon him)
    We don't we believe he pbuh is a prophet of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Well it is, and the BEST part of this is the Muslim hypocrisy:
    Person A does something bad = "He is not a real muslim!"
    Person A does something good = "He is a muslim and he did it because of Islam!"

    It's just brilliant.


    That is not hypocrisy, because Islam teaches to do good. Hence if a Muslim does something good it is because of Islam that they are following. If they do something bad then they are not following the teachings of Islam and hence you have to question his belief and whether he really is a Muslim or just going by the name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    *facepalm* are you serious?

    Do you not see the connection between you arguing that anyone who you think disobeys islamic ideals isn't a real muslim and you calling them non-muslim?

    I don't know if I could ever explain that to someone so ignorant.
    That is totally different. It is a sin to call a Muslim a non-Muslim based on no real reason or because of ignorance about those people. It is completely different when you base it on their actions. Certain things take people out of the fold of Islam, purposefully killing innocent people, worshiping objects or people as God etc.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  7. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Well it is, and the BEST part of this is the Muslim hypocrisy:
    Person A does something bad = "He is not a real muslim!"
    Person A does something good = "He is a muslim and he did it because of Islam!"


    It's just brilliant.

    Also:
    You do know the people committing these acts probably know a lot more about Islam than you, right? They commit terrorism out of sheer ignorance.

    Also:
    Atheist can't do anything in the "name of atheism" because atheism has no structural basis. He's still an atheist though, no one will deny that.



    *facepalm* are you serious?

    Do you not see the connection between you arguing that anyone who you think disobeys islamic ideals isn't a real muslim and you calling them non-muslim?

    I don't know if I could ever explain that to someone so ignorant.

    Its not just muslims though, you could put a man in a soccer team, have him scoring all the goals, the country will call him a proud civil, but as soon as he ruins it he'll get hated on too, not kicked out, but not loved as much.
    Now here is the more thoughtsome part: If he were to play in that soccer team, and goes scoring own goals all the time, kicks everyone, beats some people, would the country still accept him in their soccer team?
    He would be in that team, yes, but you and me both know what the soccer rules are, and we both know he is wrong, and would probably get kicked out if he were to fall under the judgement of higher levels.

    Replace the soccer player with a muslim, and replace the country with the religion.
    Replace the higher level with law.

    You can't deny that every tree has its rotten fruit, and now I know the islam has like 90% of all rotten fruits counting towars religion, but then again, aren't we the most at war right now?

    Islam is at war, not because of sole religious purposes, but because of political reasons, ofcourse you'll see everything the islamic people do.
    If the muslims weren't that underdeveloped, they'd also post media about the American and British or Israelic abuse(which also has muslims in them), so I don't see how it is just the muslim mind-set to be blamed for this.



    And..

    You do know the people committing these acts probably know a lot more about Islam than you, right? They commit terrorism out of sheer ignorance.


    Why are we still discussing then? I pretty much believe the same thing is going on here. If they knew enough they wouldn't go cutting heads off, I honestly don't know where they EVER heard that crap is allowed, sjeez.

    Thats like giving someone a rubber ball, for ball games purposes, and he turns it into a god dam hat or something

    But yeah, sheer ignorace, perhaps a tad bit of stress and depressity.
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  8. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    That is not hypocrisy, because Islam teaches to do good. Hence if a Muslim does something good it is because of Islam that they are following. If they do something bad then they are not following the teachings of Islam and hence you have to question his belief and whether he really is a Muslim or just going by the name.


    That is totally different. It is a sin to call a Muslim a non-Muslim based on no real reason or because of ignorance about those people. It is completely different when you base it on their actions. Certain things take people out of the fold of Islam, purposefully killing innocent people, worshiping objects or people as God etc.

    It's totally different.....but it's not.

    It's the exact same thing. You are calling someone a non-muslim (which you claim is a major sin), who is known as a muslim.


    The funniest part is that people in the middle east, in those heavily Islamic communities, they all see them as muslims.

    Yet you don't.

    Honestly it's just confirmation bias. You want to see everyone who is not practicing Islam the way YOU think it should be, called non-muslims.
    ============

    @Frost Well I pretty much responded to you already above but here:

    The problem is that Islam/Muslims don't exile these people for their actions, you are just using this as an apologist argument.


    You guys don't care if they are removed from the Islamic community, you are trying to apologize on Islam's behalf.

    The situation doesn't get solved in Islam for this reason. It's the "no true scotsman" apology, and no actions are taken since you just claim to disown them.

    Those people are recognized as muslims by the majority of the world and the majority of Islam.
    Last edited by Empire; 06-24-2014 at 07:45 PM.


  9. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post



    It's totally different.....but it's not.

    It's the exact same thing. You are calling someone a non-muslim (which you claim is a major sin), who is known as a muslim.

    Read what I said and acknowledge it. One is basing it on their actions, one is without basing it on their actions. Can you really not see the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    The funniest part is that people in the middle east, in those heavily Islamic communities, they all see them as muslims.

    Yet you don't.
    Did you ask them all personally or are you just making things up just like the things that are made up to use as propaganda against Islam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    The problem is that Islam/Muslims don't exile these people for their actions, you are just using this as an apologist argument.
    Oh look another thing you made up.

    Morocco has had a largely successful record of countering violent extremism within its borders, including the dismantling of numerous cells linked to al-Qaeda core or its North African offshoot, al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM). Thousands of suspects have been arrested for perpetrating assassinations, assaults, and robberies; huge caches of heavy weapons have been confiscated; and authorities have foiled many attempts to attack security services, tourist attractions, diplomatic delegations, and places of worship for Christians and Jews. http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/p...lent-extremism


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Those people are recognized as muslims by the majority of the world and the majority of Islam.
    Oh look another thing you made up. You don't even know the difference between Muslim and Islam, and yet you are here talking about Islam. lol @ majority of Islam. You are an intelligent guy but you are starting to sound stupid just like the propaganda about Islam you believe, just like this woman:
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 06-25-2014 at 02:14 AM.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  10. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post



    It's totally different.....but it's not.

    It's the exact same thing. You are calling someone a non-muslim (which you claim is a major sin), who is known as a muslim.


    The funniest part is that people in the middle east, in those heavily Islamic communities, they all see them as muslims.

    Yet you don't.

    Honestly it's just confirmation bias. You want to see everyone who is not practicing Islam the way YOU think it should be, called non-muslims.
    ============

    @Frost Well I pretty much responded to you already above but here:

    The problem is that Islam/Muslims don't exile these people for their actions, you are just using this as an apologist argument.


    You guys don't care if they are removed from the Islamic community, you are trying to apologize on Islam's behalf.

    The situation doesn't get solved in Islam for this reason. It's the "no true scotsman" apology, and no actions are taken since you just claim to disown them.

    Those people are recognized as muslims by the majority of the world and the majority of Islam.

    They're not, lol.
    They are for one war criminals, for two psychopaths and three, sinners against Allah.
    For that, people get jailed and some even get executed. I think thats fair enough..
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  11. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Read what I said and acknowledge it. One is basing it on their actions, one is without basing it on their actions. Can you really not see the difference?


    Did you ask them all personally or are you just making things up just like the things that are made up to use as propaganda against Islam.


    Oh look another thing you made up.

    Morocco has had a largely successful record of countering violent extremism within its borders, including the dismantling of numerous cells linked to al-Qaeda core or its North African offshoot, al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM). Thousands of suspects have been arrested for perpetrating assassinations, assaults, and robberies; huge caches of heavy weapons have been confiscated; and authorities have foiled many attempts to attack security services, tourist attractions, diplomatic delegations, and places of worship for Christians and Jews. http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/p...lent-extremism



    Oh look another thing you made up. You don't even know the difference between Muslim and Islam, and yet you are here talking about Islam. lol @ majority of Islam. You are an intelligent guy but you are starting to sound stupid just like the propaganda about Islam you believe, just like this woman:
    Yeesh, you are just filled with ignorance. I'm not going to bother responding to you when your replies when you can't even offer a defense besides "you just made that up".

    Here's the last bit:

    Do you know all terrorist personally?
    Great, Morocco did something. That proves what again? Oh are we still on the " one act proves everything?" debate? We already went through this several times.....

    The difference between Islam and Muslims is that one is the religion and other is the follower of said religion.

    However if both accept violence as a possibility for an end, then it is not a religion of peace.(the topic).


    But lets be honest, the moment Muhammad raided the caravans Islam lost the competition as the religion of peace. The fact that he assembled an army and waged war is just icing to that cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post



    They're not, lol.
    They are for one war criminals, for two psychopaths and three, sinners against Allah.
    For that, people get jailed and some even get executed. I think thats fair enough..
    Maybe you'll understand when you are older, but the world is not as you wish it to be.


    Just because you wish the terrorist to be psychopaths(which they are not), war criminals, and sinners/non-muslims, does not mean they are.

    It's a common religious-minded problem of ignorance. Wishing another person to be XYZ so that your stereotype can be fulfilled.
    Last edited by Empire; 06-25-2014 at 02:22 PM.


  12. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    Yeesh, you are just filled with ignorance. I'm not going to bother responding to you when your replies when you can't even offer a defense besides "you just made that up".

    Here's the last bit:

    Do you know all terrorist personally?
    Great, Morocco did something. That proves what again? Oh are we still on the " one act proves everything?" debate? We already went through this several times.....

    The difference between Islam and Muslims is that one is the religion and other is the follower of said religion.

    However if both accept violence as a possibility for an end, then it is not a religion of peace.(the topic).


    But lets be honest, the moment Muhammad raided the caravans Islam lost the competition as the religion of peace. The fact that he assembled an army and waged war is just icing to that cake.



    Maybe you'll understand when you are older, but the world is not as you wish it to be.


    Just because you wish the terrorist to be psychopaths(which they are not), war criminals, and sinners/non-muslims, does not mean they are.

    It's a common religious-minded problem of ignorance. Wishing another person to be XYZ so that your stereotype can be fulfilled.
    Understand that I once walked in your shoes for quite some time.. Think about it more clearly: rules are made, rules are to be followed in order to maintain a certain title, and thus, for breaking the rules, they're no longer a part of it.


    If you're telling me that they're doing it purely because of the religion then I think you're missing a big part here.

    When they commit such actions, they're oftenly filled with rage and the seek of vengeance, thus explaining the extreme violence and hard abuse/torture.

    If they were there purely for clean purposes, they wouldn't be filled with that rage and vengeance. You'd have to get personal to understand.
    They have the need to hurt the others, to make them feel the pain they/their familiars felt, you know? Its not based on religion. Do you really think they're beheading people and hurting them beyond human boundaries for a god? No, they're doing it just to fill their needs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post


    Understand that I once walked in your shoes for quite some time.. Think about it more clearly: rules are made, rules are to be followed in order to maintain a certain title, and thus, for breaking the rules, they're no longer a part of it.


    If you're telling me that they're doing it purely because of the religion then I think you're missing a big part here.

    When they commit such actions, they're oftenly filled with rage and the seek of vengeance, thus explaining the extreme violence and hard abuse/torture.

    If they were there purely for clean purposes, they wouldn't be filled with that rage and vengeance. You'd have to get personal to understand.
    They have the need to hurt the others, to make them feel the pain they/their familiars felt, you know? Its not based on religion. Do you really think they're beheading people and hurting them beyond human boundaries for a god? No, they're doing it just to fill their needs.
    I'm not telling you they do it because of the religion. I'm telling you that they are using the religion to justify it. We can also see how Islam through history has been continually used to justify acts of violence, the fact that people are doing it now, does not utterly shock me.

    Your stereotype of terrorist is based off of misinformation but its also pretty sad that you don't realize the things they are doing now have been done for hundreds if not thousands of years in the middle east. Beheading people and murdering them for minor crimes is not something Islam prevented through its creation.
    ----------------------

    I'm curious, you think the Crusades were done by Christians, the Islamic Empire was made by Muslims, but you draw the line at modern terrorism?


    It seems to me your viewpoint is based off of willful ignorance, more than anything else.


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  15. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    I'm not telling you they do it because of the religion. I'm telling you that they are using the religion to justify it. We can also see how Islam through history has been continually used to justify acts of violence, the fact that people are doing it now, does not utterly shock me.

    Your stereotype of terrorist is based off of misinformation but its also pretty sad that you don't realize the things they are doing now have been done for hundreds if not thousands of years in the middle east. Beheading people and murdering them for minor crimes is not something Islam prevented through its creation.
    ----------------------

    I'm curious, you think the Crusades were done by Christians, the Islamic Empire was made by Muslims, but you draw the line at modern terrorism?


    It seems to me your viewpoint is based off of willful ignorance, more than anything else.
    I honestly don't understand where you got that 'justified by islam' fact.
    Do you really think I could go out there, abuse all non-muslims all I want, behead them all I want, and then come back and get no punishment?
    Who thought like that was Anders Breivik, and I think we can all agree that he is a lunatic. So why should the muslims who did exactly the same thing not face the same lunatic state, but be accepted as perfectly humane muslims?
    Their actions are not justified by islam. They might think so, but its not like that.
    No punishment from the religion nor the country?




    The islam was actually one of the reasons muslims held themselves in. Like really, war crimes happen, that is a fact. You can't just shove it all to islams side because the whole group goes screaming out allahu akbar.

    It might sound as something ignorant to say, but its the truth. You should try to look at it from our perspective.
    We all have those annoying retards who fuck it all up for everyone, we despise them, they aren't following the rules, and the other side despises them.
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    Well just because many of the people who happened to be terrorists are also Muslims. TBH that's failed mathematical reasoning. Many Muslims in the world are actually peaceful and art against the terrorism of radical Islamists. It's just that you people listen to Bush's bullshit too much.

    The funny thing is, this can be applied to Christianity. The Christians killed anyone who wasn't a Christian or wasn't of the same Christian belief during many time periods, and killed far more people than terrorists. Christians killed thousands of Native Americans in the process of forcing them to follow their religion. Christians have started WARS in the past. So explain to ME how Christianity is a peaceful religion. I could just think that Christians are unpeaceful and violent. But that's not true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    When they commit such actions, they're oftenly filled with rage and the seek of vengeance, thus explaining the extreme violence and hard abuse/torture.
    Also I would like to add that nearly 3,000 people around the world died during 9/11 (according to BBC). And 9/11 was planned and created by mainly Saudi Arabian people. But what did we decide to do? We decided to attack nations that weren't even involved in the attacks. Funny, huh? We are so obsessed with 9/11 and avenging the deaths of people then, when we aren't even attacking nations INVOLVED in it. The most curious part is, Bush has investments in Saudi Arabia. If the U.S. entered Saudi Arabia, the Arab nation would be affected, and Bush's investments would be worthless. But if the U.S. entered Iraq and Afghanistan, the second Bush could avenge the loss his father faced in Iraq as president AND destroy any companies that rival Bush's investments.

    And we killed FAR more innocent civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries just to "avenge 9/11."

    "The ongoing conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan have taken a tremendous toll on the people of those countries. At the very least, 174,000 civilians have been determined to have died violent deaths as a result of the war as of April 2014. The actual number of deaths, direct and indirect, as a result of the wars are many times higher than this figure."

    http://costsofwar.org/article/civili...ed-and-wounded
    Last edited by Batman; 06-25-2014 at 09:44 PM.
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