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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    how is that propaganda? 140k killed in Hiroshima Nuclear bomb and another 80k killed in Nagasaki, in addition to the 1,1 Million in Vietnam.
    Not to mention the war on Iraq, Afghanistan and drones in Yemen! and not to forget the genocide of the Native Americans which you killed before stealing their land.

    Name me one story that Muhammad killed an innocent man or a civilian and I will reply to you.
    :/ Sorry, how is an entire nation in modern day relevant?
    -I could go on and explain to you what war means, but we know you won't listen.


    Well muhammed ordered the deaths of the caravan leaders, and he was the leader of military campaigns which of course had deaths, pretty much the exact same thing you are claiming the US did muhammed did to a lesser degree. (well, the population was a lot less too). You could say muhammad only attacked "on the defensive" but you'd be wrong as muhammad clearly raided caravans which started the whole conflict.


    Oh, are we going the "he was just ordering people to kill other people, he never did any of the killing" route? I always forget this stuff.



    Just to prove a point: Claiming the US is evil in relation to Muhammad does not make him look better.
    Last edited by Empire; 10-14-2013 at 01:46 PM.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Well that doesn't change the fact that you used "illegal" weapons on human beings and living souls.
    disapproving is just like saying sorry we didn't find any chemical weapons after fucking a country and stealing their oil.
    thousands of senseless murders? o,O what does that supposed to mean?
    z
    How in the hell is the general public responsible for the government's actions 75 years ago?
    When the earth is changed into a humid dungeon,
    In which Hope like a bat
    Goes beating the walls with her timid wings
    And knocking her head against the rotten ceiling;
    When the rain stretching out its endless train
    Imitates the bars of a vast prison
    And a silent horde of loathsome spiders
    Comes to spin their webs in the depths of our brains,
    All at once the bells leap with rage
    And hurl a frightful roar at heaven,
    Even as wandering spirits with no country
    Burst into a stubborn, whimpering cry.
    — And without drums or music, long hearses
    Pass by slowly in my soul; Hope, vanquished,
    Weeps, and atrocious, despotic Anguish
    On my bowed skull plants her black flag.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aborted View Post

    How in the hell is the general public responsible for the government's actions 75 years ago?
    I wouldn't bother, he's trying to prove that because X did something, its ok for Y to do something.


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    :/ Sorry, how is an entire nation in modern day relevant?
    -I could go on and explain to you what war means, but we know you won't listen.


    Well muhammed ordered the deaths of the caravan leaders, and he was the leader of military campaigns which of course had deaths, pretty much the exact same thing you are claiming the US did muhammed did to a lesser degree. (well, the population was a lot less too). You could say muhammad only attacked "on the defensive" but you'd be wrong as muhammad clearly raided caravans which started the whole conflict.


    Oh, are we going the "he was just ordering people to kill other people, he never did any of the killing" route? I always forget this stuff.


    Just to prove a point: Claiming the US is evil in relation to Muhammad does not make him look better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aborted View Post
    How in the hell is the general public responsible for the government's actions 75 years ago?
    Isn't democracy the rule of people? and why didn't the people stand up against their government when they did something terrible as a genocide?
    Being into a war against a country justify the usage of nuclear weapons and killing civilians?
    I still want to know what caravans you are talking about, can you be more specific and maybe give names ?
    and Muhammad never started a war on someone, obviously you don't know how Islam started in the first place.
    Muhammad told the closest people to him about Islam and after few months he announced it publicly, but the leaders of his tribe refused that and tortured anyone who believe in him and prevented all of the sales men to sell anything to his followers, then he got kicked out of his tribe, built an army to fight back to return to his home.
    And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    Isn't democracy the rule of people? and why didn't the people stand up against their government when they did something terrible as a genocide?
    Being into a war against a country justify the usage of nuclear weapons and killing civilians?
    I still want to know what caravans you are talking about, can you be more specific and maybe give names ?
    and Muhammad never started a war on someone, obviously you don't know how Islam started in the first place.
    Muhammad told the closest people to him about Islam and after few months he announced it publicly, but the leaders of his tribe refused that and tortured anyone who believe in him and prevented all of the sales men to sell anything to his followers, then he got kicked out of his tribe, built an army to fight back to return to his home.
    :/ I'm sorry, what relevance does the use of Nuclear weapons have with the topic? Want to make a topic with that go ahead, but its not the topic here.

    You want me to give names of caravans? In what way would I do that?
    ----------

    You just described Muhammed starting a war. LOL

    "then he got kicked out of his tribe, built an army to fight back to return to his home."


    So he was exiled, and started a war to return.

    This is just too easy now. You should stop.


  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    :/ I'm sorry, what relevance does the use of Nuclear weapons have with the topic? Want to make a topic with that go ahead, but its not the topic here.

    You want me to give names of caravans? In what way would I do that?
    ----------

    You just described Muhammed starting a war. LOL

    "then he got kicked out of his tribe, built an army to fight back to return to his home."


    So he was exiled, and started a war to return.

    This is just too easy now. You should stop.
    War is a good thing when its against bad people, Wars nowadays are never good because there are casualties always in the civilians and innocent people, on the other hand, wars at the time of sword mostly took place in an opened field where two armies meet up and fight each other with no civilians around or harming any child/woman/ or an old man.

    You call it a waging a war against peaceful tribe? read what i posted again, they tortured and cut food and clothes from then followers of Muhammad and killed many of them, what do you expect him to do? tell his followers stay here and die?
    and If Muhammad was a "war lover" why did he stop expanding once he took over and spread his religion all over the Arabian Island?
    Last edited by RedSpot; 10-15-2013 at 10:05 AM.
    And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    War is a good thing when its against bad people, Wars nowadays are never good because there are casualties always in the civilians and innocent people, on the other hand, wars at the time of sword mostly took place in an opened field where two armies meet up and fight each other with no civilians around or harming any child/woman/ or an old man.

    You call it a waging a war against peaceful tribe? read what i posted again, they tortured and cut food and clothes from then followers of Muhammad and killed many of them, what do you expect him to do? tell his followers stay here and die?
    and If Muhammad was a "war lover" why did he stop expanding once he took over and spread his religion all over the Arabian Island?
    War is never a good thing. Don't be naive redspot.

    You think they fought out in the middle of nowhere at the time of the sword? Why would you possibly believe that? The majority of battles were fought against the city. Why? Because the city had walls, fortification, and would give them a bigger advantages verses the people attacking it if built right.
    --------

    How is Muhammad's tribe "peaceful"? They raided caravans to get supplies and killed the caravan owners. They went to war, during that time they looted a completely unrelated Jewish city just because muhammad needed booty to convince people to fight for him.
    ---------------------

    "If Muhammad was a "war lover" why did he stop expanding once he took over and spread his religion all over the Arabian Island?"

    Uh...... Muhammad stopped because he died. Before he died, he gave orders to spread his religion across the earth. Seeing as how he just spread his religion through conquest, that is basically what happened for the entirety of Islam after he died..


  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    You think they fought out in the middle of nowhere at the time of the sword? Why would you possibly believe that? The majority of battles were fought against the city. Why? Because the city had walls, fortification, and would give them a bigger advantages verses the people attacking it if built right.
    I can name you all of the battles that Muhammad fought it and Most of them if not all took place in a field face to face against an army.
    And as far as I remember the Jews were the only ones to hide behind their city walls and never went out to fight as they usually do in this era too.

    I was talking about his old tribes, the ones who kicked him out...
    There were only 3 times Muhammad fought the Jews and all of these battles took place just because they betrayed Muhammad after he made peace and agreements with them;
    -After the Battle of Badr and the defeat of the non Muslims, the Jews said that Muhammad won because he was fighting untrained men and if he decide to fight the Jews they will certainly win, and that was a clear statement that the Jews ( one tribe of the jews called Banu Qaynuqa) are enemies to Muhammad. Few months later Muhammad surrounded their city for 15 days without them fighting back at all until Muhammad agreed to let them escape to Levant.
    - 2 years after the last event above ^^ ; A Jewish tribe called Banu Nadir tried to kill Muhammad by sending someone over his house roof to throw a big rock to his head. so Muhammad surrounded their city and again the Jews hide inside and never fought; and once again Muhammad agree to let them escape to Levant after they destroyed their own houses by their own hands so the Muslims can have nothing; "It is He who expelled the ones who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture from their homes at the first gathering. You did not think they would leave, and they thought that their fortresses would protect them from Allah ; but [the decree of] Allah came upon them from where they had not expected, and He cast terror into their hearts [so] they destroyed their houses by their [own] hands and the hands of the believers. So take warning, O people of vision." 59:2
    -A year later; and after the Battle of the Trench, a tribe of the Jews called Banu Qurayza made an agreement with a 3rd party to attack the muslims from behind after the battle of the trench but the Muslims forced them to retreat to their city walls and surrounded them for 25 night then kicked them out of the Arabian Island.

    The Persians and the Romans were the greatest kingdoms at the time that Islam fully spread in the Arabian Island so they tried to demolish Islam, however, that didn't work out very well for the Persians and the Romans so the Muslims expanded their borders to resist them.
    And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    :/ Calm down with the propaganda redspot.

    Its not "my history", its the history of Muhammed. Unless you are claiming Muhammed was just made up, I don't see how you are arguing this with any hope of winning.



    This is whats called a "childrens story".

    If you are saying that someone told you a story 3 years ago and that is your "proof" then you should really just stop posting. You are only making yourself look even more stupid than you already have.

    :/ How you take word of mouth over research is just amazing. I can't imagine all the things you probably believe because someone told you so.
    The caravan raids were actions commenced by the foul attacks on the muslims by the Quraish from what I recall. They were the ones who kept attacking and holding back the muslim population from evoluating, and to stop them from doing so, they decided to raid their caravans and use them themselves. Its pretty logical imo
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post


    The caravan raids were actions commenced by the foul attacks on the muslims by the Quraish from what I recall. They were the ones who kept attacking and holding back the muslim population from evoluating, and to stop them from doing so, they decided to raid their caravans and use them themselves. Its pretty logical imo
    Uh....you got that backwards. The Quraish were the ones who owned the caravans.

    Muhammad was already in Medina at the time, he was from the caravan business so he knew where to raid, and he just used his fake "persecution" as an excuse.

    People died because he ordered it. Pretty logical imo.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    I can name you all of the battles that Muhammad fought it and Most of them if not all took place in a field face to face against an army.
    And as far as I remember the Jews were the only ones to hide behind their city walls and never went out to fight as they usually do in this era too.

    I was talking about his old tribes, the ones who kicked him out...
    There were only 3 times Muhammad fought the Jews and all of these battles took place just because they betrayed Muhammad after he made peace and agreements with them;
    -After the Battle of Badr and the defeat of the non Muslims, the Jews said that Muhammad won because he was fighting untrained men and if he decide to fight the Jews they will certainly win, and that was a clear statement that the Jews ( one tribe of the jews called Banu Qaynuqa) are enemies to Muhammad. Few months later Muhammad surrounded their city for 15 days without them fighting back at all until Muhammad agreed to let them escape to Levant.
    - 2 years after the last event above ^^ ; A Jewish tribe called Banu Nadir tried to kill Muhammad by sending someone over his house roof to throw a big rock to his head. so Muhammad surrounded their city and again the Jews hide inside and never fought; and once again Muhammad agree to let them escape to Levant after they destroyed their own houses by their own hands so the Muslims can have nothing; "It is He who expelled the ones who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture from their homes at the first gathering. You did not think they would leave, and they thought that their fortresses would protect them from Allah ; but [the decree of] Allah came upon them from where they had not expected, and He cast terror into their hearts [so] they destroyed their houses by their [own] hands and the hands of the believers. So take warning, O people of vision." 59:2
    -A year later; and after the Battle of the Trench, a tribe of the Jews called Banu Qurayza made an agreement with a 3rd party to attack the muslims from behind after the battle of the trench but the Muslims forced them to retreat to their city walls and surrounded them for 25 night then kicked them out of the Arabian Island.

    The Persians and the Romans were the greatest kingdoms at the time that Islam fully spread in the Arabian Island so they tried to demolish Islam, however, that didn't work out very well for the Persians and the Romans so the Muslims expanded their borders to resist them.
    The jews were the only ones? Pfft, dude, look up any "siege of" or military history, you cannot be this stupid.

    Lol, you actually believe these stories? Please, link me your sources. I'd love to take a look.

    I'd love to see something more than this:

    Last edited by Empire; 10-15-2013 at 02:02 PM.


  12. #42
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    I've read the quaran, It seems like it's establishing the acknowledgement of what people would do "exactly as they do" as they interpret the texts. The idea of having a god that simply is, and not is a finite set object. It opposes Jesus is white and blue eye religions(Christianity, etc...). All religions are obviously old, it's hard to understand older meaning behind words. There is those who actually understand the quaran and comprehend all of this and more and are aware of how ignorant their fellow man are. They are dieing as well as the ignorant. Ignorance is from lack of change, if one refuses to change for emotional or physical purposes how can they ever become smarter? 2+2 makes me mad, so I refuse the logic of it.

    Islam is a peaceful religion, just as all religions. But it is vulnerable to interpretation just as everything else is in our languages.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    The jews were the only ones? Pfft, dude, look up any "siege of" or military history, you cannot be this stupid.

    Lol, you actually believe these stories? Please, link me your sources. I'd love to take a look.

    I'd love to see something more than this:

    Give me one battle that the Jews fought with swords? you will NEVER find one because they are bunch of cowards from the beginning of times to the end of it.
    its either they hide somewhere safe or sneak up behind you and stab you then run away.
    Take Gaza for example, The last war they had with Gaza they said there will be no troops on the ground because they will get killed, but instead they just used artillery and airstrikes.

    and I already watched that video, "Muhammad is the source of the Extremism" Maybe the Jihadist type of people are the true Muslims for real, and the others that got anything related with non believers is one of them and not a Muslim.

    The sources of the battles I gave is in Arabic, but I am sure you took yours from an English one, so can you post the sources of the caravans thingy and killing Jews ?
    And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Uh....you got that backwards. The Quraish were the ones who owned the caravans.

    Muhammad was already in Medina at the time, he was from the caravan business so he knew where to raid, and he just used his fake "persecution" as an excuse.

    People died because he ordered it. Pretty logical imo.
    Yes, the Quraish owned the caravans, but the Quraish were also the ones who attacked the prophet first and kept trying. It really was their own fault. You can only push a man so many times until he starts attacking back.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post

    Yes, the Quraish owned the caravans, but the Quraish were also the ones who attacked the prophet first and kept trying. It really was their own fault. You can only push a man so many times until he starts attacking back.
    Pfft, are you a fucking moron?

    You think the caravan riders were to blame for the "attack on the prophet" or that they should lose their life for it? The Quraysh were an entire tribe and you blame the actions of a few as a reason to raid/kill unrelated people?
    -------

    Also, the Quraysh didn't even attack muhammad in the first place lol. Muhammad insulted their gods and denounced them and they took offense, just like every other muslims here gets upset all the time when we prove Muhammad was really just an asshole.

    The Quraysh put an embargo on muhammad, mainly because again....he's an asshole. He kept denouncing everyone's god's at the time, and well....lets be realistic, if you did that in the middle east today you'd be shot within the hour no questions. Going to the streets and saying "your god is wrong mine is right" is basically what made everyone hate him.(outside of the stuff he did AFTER he got exiled *cough* caravan raids *cough* dumping bodies in a well *cough*

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/antagonizing.htm
    Last edited by Empire; 10-15-2013 at 05:16 PM.


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