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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post


    because no one wants a faget god. faget.
    U ACTEN LYK U GOT A CHOICE M8

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post


    U ACTEN LYK U GOT A CHOICE M8
    Praise be to Shayne-u-San.
    When the earth is changed into a humid dungeon,
    In which Hope like a bat
    Goes beating the walls with her timid wings
    And knocking her head against the rotten ceiling;
    When the rain stretching out its endless train
    Imitates the bars of a vast prison
    And a silent horde of loathsome spiders
    Comes to spin their webs in the depths of our brains,
    All at once the bells leap with rage
    And hurl a frightful roar at heaven,
    Even as wandering spirits with no country
    Burst into a stubborn, whimpering cry.
    — And without drums or music, long hearses
    Pass by slowly in my soul; Hope, vanquished,
    Weeps, and atrocious, despotic Anguish
    On my bowed skull plants her black flag.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Aborted For This Useful Post:

    Doc (04-28-2014)

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by checkme323 View Post
    well allah is god in arabic, god put us here so he has the right to take someones life?
    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    We believe Allah swt created everyone's life therefore Allah swt has the right to decide when to end someones life. T\
    So you think that creation gives the right to destruction?

    That's an odd concept. I'm not sure I agree with it. I can't apply it to anything else.


  5. #124
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    well its kinda just gods choice he did create the universe did he, im not arguing btw just saying



    wtf did u just say to me you moot cunt say 2 me face you piece of shit and not over the internet ok

  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by checkme323 View Post
    well its kinda just gods choice he did create the universe did he, im not arguing btw just saying
    Try applying that concept to anything else.


  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Try applying that concept to anything else.
    He can't. They believe god created everything else.

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post


    He can't. They believe god created everything else.
    Misunderstanding, we can create as humans. We do not have the explicit right to destroy because of creation.

    We cannot kill children because we are parents, we cannot destroy a car at any time just because we manufactured it.

    It's implying that creation gives the right to destruction.

    Unless you absolutely don't believe in free will, the belief that god has the right to end a life without justification is null.


  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post




    So you think that creation gives the right to destruction?

    That's an odd concept. I'm not sure I agree with it. I can't apply it to anything else.
    Only if what has been created is able to do something that deserves to be destroyed. People unlike objects: steal, rape, kill, insult, scam etc. We believe everything happens because of God's will because it is God's will to give us free will.
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 06-02-2014 at 01:47 PM.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post


    He can't. They believe god created everything else.
    Technically yes because we believe everything in the universe was created by God. However we can use God's creation to create things ourselves with the will of God.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Only if what has been created is able to do something that deserves to be destroyed. People unlike objects: steal, rape, kill, insult, scam etc. We believe everything happens because of God's will because it is God's will to give us free will.
    So you believe innocent people, children, infants, fetuses, etc. Are all ok for destruction? Does that not make god immoral?

    God gives us free will, proceeds to say "if you don't obey me you will be tortured forever", takes away free will.

    Sorry, the logic doesn't add up.


    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Technically yes because we believe everything in the universe was created by God. However we can use God's creation to create things ourselves with the will of God.
    Belief =/= proof.


  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    So you believe innocent people, children, infants, fetuses, etc. Are all ok for destruction? Does that not make god immoral?

    I said people who rape, kill etc. Not sure where you got that idea from? God in the Quran does not say the innocent will be destroyed in hell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    God gives us free will, proceeds to say "if you don't obey me you will be tortured forever", takes away free will.
    Not really because you can still choose to believe in whatever God says, just like you and I are doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Belief =/= proof.
    Belief is not backed up by scientific proof but a different kind of proof. Do you believe you had a great great great great great great great great great great grandad? You cannot observe him or do any experiments to prove his existence but you believe he existed because it is logical. This is the kind of proof for belief, which is something many atheists don't understand because of atheist propaganda mixing science with belief by the likes of Dawkins. Also it is up to each person to find their own proof, not to rely on others as Dawkins makes it out to be.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    I said people who rape, kill etc. Not sure where you got that idea from? God in the Quran does not say the innocent will be destroyed in hell. Not really because you can still choose to believe in whatever God says, just like you and I are doing.


    Belief is not backed up by scientific proof but a different kind of proof. Do you believe you had a great great great great great great great great great great grandad? You cannot observe him or do any experiments to prove his existence but you believe he existed because it is logical. This is the kind of proof for belief, which is something many atheists don't understand because of atheist propaganda mixing science with belief by the likes of Dawkins. Also it is up to each person to find their own proof, not to rely on others as Dawkins makes it out to be.
    Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." Don't believe in Allah? You're fucked regardless of your circumstances.

    Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" If we don't believe in Allah you should kill us and he'll send us to eternal damnation... not really getting a choice here.

    Please just re-read that last paragraph and if you don't feel sudden shame then killing yourself would probably make the world a better place.

  14. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rance-sama View Post
    Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." Don't believe in Allah? You're fucked regardless of your circumstances.
    It is those who fully know and have the knowledge but continue to disbelieve and cause others to disbelieve and lead them astray. For example those who use money to make desperate people do anything for help. etc. It doesn't mean all disbelievers, those who have no real knowledge of Islam and are ignorant of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rance-sama View Post
    Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" If we don't believe in Allah you should kill us and he'll send us to eternal damnation... not really getting a choice here.
    A couple of verses later: If you [disbelievers] seek the victory - the defeat has come to you. And if you desist [from hostilities], it is best for you; but if you return [to war], We will return, and never will you be availed by your [large] company at all, even if it should increase; and [that is] because Allah is with the believers. -8:19

    It was the disbelievers during the time the verse was revealed that were killing, oppressing, and persecuting Muslims. The Muslims were an overwhelming minority. Again it allows only fighting when someone else wages war on you.

    I am proud to be a Muslim. All you are literally doing by posting these verses out of context is saying, hey look at me I haven't read the Quran and I know nothing about Islam. These "arguments" are old news and there are hundreds of books and exegesis's explaining all of the verses of the Quran. The only people who these verses come a shock to are the ones who have never read the Quran and read these verses out of context.
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 06-07-2014 at 04:06 PM.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  15. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post

    Not really because you can still choose to believe in whatever God says, just like you and I are doing.


    Belief is not backed up by scientific proof but a different kind of proof..
    Except you can't. Information about your religion is not and has not been available to all of mankind. Therefore God sends people to hell for a situation outside of their control.

    Belief is not backed up by any proof, belief is: "an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists". It is the acceptance by a person that something is true, it does not prove anything. The logic of the Quran and of Islam is just as faulty as Christianity's, so in a sense your belief of said events or in the Quran being "true" is really just your opinion, not a fact.

    There is nothing scientific or logical that proves the religion of Islam to be true.


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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    posting these verses out of context is saying, hey look at me I haven't read the Quran and I know nothing about Islam. These "arguments" are old news and there are hundreds of books and exegesis's explaining all of the verses of the Quran. The only people who these verses come a shock to are the ones who have never read the Quran and read these verses out of context.
    You don't know it yourself as apparent from what you posted. The Mecca were defending themselves and that verse was used to encourage them to fight them with the odds stacked against them. http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religiou...hp#005.059.314

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