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  1. #1
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    Quran: primary source?

    So this really bothers me ALOT

    All muslims keep saying that the quran is a primary source and written by the prophet himself, but honestly, here is what I want you to know:

    Muhammed didn't write down the book, it were his disciples and the disciples OF those disciples who decided to do that.
    They did not even have official permission by the prophet to put it down in a book-form, but they thought people would benefit from it, so they did.
    This means the quran is a secondary source, not a primary source.

    Now I'm writing this all very generally, but I can provide you with proof if you're really interested.
    Why the fuck do people keep on bashing on the bible saying that their book is not originally written by a prophet or so, whilst the same thing counts for the quran?
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  2. #2
    Doc's Avatar
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    Religion isn't based on rationality, you can't expect religious people to be rational.

  3. #3
    سبحان الله وبحمدة سبحان الله العظيم
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    First of all the Quran is gods word and it was sent down to Prophet Muhammad by an Angel called Gabriel.
    The Quran was written by the Prophet they say? Nobody would ever say that, not Muslims atleast, because everyone know that Muhammad couldn't write nor read and true that the Quran was collected after the death of Muhammad, why? Simply because they couldn't know when its going to be completed!
    and when ever a verse came down on the Prophet he used to repeat it many times to his followers who can write them down and keep them somewhere safe, and after the death of Muhammad, a guy called Abo Baker was the Khalifa at that time a close friend of him called Omar ( which turned to be a Khalifa after Abo Baker) suggested to collect the Quran so that it doesn't get lost, at the first time he refused because he didn't want to do something Muhammad didn't do himself, but eventually he collected all of these verses that was written and made them into one book. they didn't just collect the verses that they used to copy from the Prophet but also double checked them from people who memorized those verses and the whole Quran.

    Quran is the primary Source of Islam, and Sunna is the second Source, Sunna is the act that Muhammad used to do and what he ordered us to do.
    And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpot View Post
    First of all the Quran is gods word and it was sent down to Prophet Muhammad by an Angel called Gabriel.
    And my exam paper was sent down to Severus Snape by a demon called Lucifer.
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    1. The quran was written down and compiled together after muhammad's death. Anyone who says its the "word of god" or "beautiful poetry" or whatever has the people writing it down to thank, not Muhammad.
    2. The constant hatred for the bible is pretty silly. Islam considers itself an Abrahamic religion(the continuation of Judaism/Christianity through Abraham), yet if it denies the other two as a being legit, then it basically isn't an Abrahamic religion. Its like saying you are third, but there isn't a first or second.
    3. The odds that the quran was altered before being compiled are pretty heavy given the Islamic civil wars soon after Muhammad's death.

    Muhammad being illiterate would be unlikely given his trade, but irrelevant as it would have nothing to do with how the Quran was made. He basically just said" got told me this", and people accepted it without any proof whatsoever.


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    what are you saying ? the word of god come from the mouth of muhammad saws that a fact.

    and all of the people here are stupid ignorant,you are the most ignorant nation on the world,so please dont speak about islam is something who need knowledge.

    When Abu Bakr, the first Caliph of Islam, fought the false prophets (including mousseilimah) who raised their tribes against the new religion, there were particularly bloody battles where a staggering number of those who knew the Koran by heart found the martyrdom. This prompted the pious Omar Abu Bakr to ask to group the various manuscripts of the Qur'an in order to ensure the sustainability of this book. Abu Bakr refused at first to do what the Prophet himself had not, after careful consideration, recognized the merits of the Board of Omar.

    Zayd ibn Thabet is who was responsible for this work of first importance. The choice of Zayd was explained by the fact that it was the most assiduous secretary of the Prophet and he knew more Qur'an by heart. It was also the most versed in its interpretation. Finally, just before his death, the Prophet gave him one last time while reciting the Qur'an.

    He was helped by three other connoisseurs of the Qur'an and began to raise them with all the songs written this book. He accepted that what had been written of the life of the Prophet and demanded that in the testimony of two honest believers unless the text was even mentioned in an identical manner in at least two different layers.

    Caliph Othman made ​​a copy for each provincial capital (Syria, Mecca, Yemen, Al Bahrain, Al Basrah and Kufa). He kept one in Medina and another home called "Al Imam" and now serve as a unique prototype allowed for all those who intend to repeat the Koran.



    Some of the Othman Koran exist until today for example Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, and Bukhara in Turkestan

    the difference between quran and other religious book is that quran is a book who have been memorized by million and million of people since his revelation,if tomorow all the quran book disapear it's easy for us to make one with the same word,the same point everything the same as the original because it's an oral book who've been memorized since his revelation

    allahuma salli 'ala muhammad wa 'ala ali muhammad ho my lord send your peace on muhammad and on his familly,he is certainly the best fo the entire creation khayri khalqui kulihimi

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  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wankstaa View Post
    what are you saying ? the word of god come from the mouth of muhammad saws that a fact.
    If it is a fact, you must be able to prove it.


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    i have to proof nothing you american ignorant ! thousands and thousands of people learned the quran from the mouth of muhammad ! there is thousand and thousand arab source about that so please move on ! this is basical thing to know.

    there is thousands and thousands of hadith qurdsi and also quran speak about !

    i have nothing to proof you,the arabic,muslim sources are full of book about that .

  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wankstaa View Post
    i have to proof nothing you american ignorant ! thousands and thousands of people learned the quran from the mouth of muhammad ! there is thousand and thousand arab source about that so please move on ! this is basical thing to know.

    there is thousands and thousands of hadith qurdsi and also quran speak about !

    i have nothing to proof you,the arabic,muslim sources are full of book about that .
    The flying spaghetti monster is real! It's from my mouth so it must be true! Ignorant fool.

  14. #10
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wankstaa View Post
    i have to proof

    i have nothing to proof you


    Then........ shut up?

    Post proof or don't post. That simple kid.


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    Don't any of you guys knows that Qur'an is the guidance of life?The Qur'an is NOT written,its revelation is lowered by the God,Allah SWT. through Angel Gabriel (Jibril in Arabic).And prophet Muhammad can't read or write,it's the gift that Allah SWT. has given so people believe that Quran is NOT written by Muhammad.
    And don't you guys know what Islam means?It means "safe".When the Judgement comes,only people that is an Islam will be safe and when they die,they will go to the heaven,but the people that is NOT an Islam will go to the hell when they die.

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  17. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaman251 View Post
    Don't any of you guys knows that Qur'an is the guidance of life?The Qur'an is NOT written,its revelation is lowered by the God,Allah SWT. through Angel Gabriel (Jibril in Arabic).And prophet Muhammad can't read or write,it's the gift that Allah SWT. has given so people believe that Quran is NOT written by Muhammad.
    And don't you guys know what Islam means?It means "safe".When the Judgement comes,only people that is an Islam will be safe and when they die,they will go to the heaven,but the people that is NOT an Islam will go to the hell when they die.
    Um......are you even muslim?

    The quran was spoken, then written down after Muhammad's death. Every muslim knows this.
    Islam means "submission". Every muslim knows this

    "Judgement day" isn't even a focus in Islam, it's only some random prophecy that people put in there to scare people. Every muslim knows this.


  18. #13
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Um......are you even muslim?

    The quran was spoken, then written down after Muhammad's death. Every muslim knows this.
    Islam means "submission". Every muslim knows this

    "Judgement day" isn't even a focus in Islam, it's only some random prophecy that people put in there to scare people. Every muslim knows this.
    He means that Muhammad didn't write the words by himself and think what to write ... but he read it and the typed it in materials ... HOW CAN A GUY THAT DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ / WRITE .. READ THE QUR'AN WHICH WE CANNOT EVEN READ EASILY?
    If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
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  19. #14
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [D]opeDog View Post

    He means that Muhammad didn't write the words by himself and think what to write ... but he read it and the typed it in materials ... HOW CAN A GUY THAT DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ / WRITE .. READ THE QUR'AN WHICH WE CANNOT EVEN READ EASILY?
    The quran was spoken then written down by other people, not Muhammad himself.

    Muhammad never "read" the quran, he spoke it. Illiteracy has almost nothing to do with muhammad.
    Last edited by Empire; 01-03-2014 at 01:52 PM.


  20. #15
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    You are wrong what aspect of Islam do you find irrational?

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