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  1. #1
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    Islam isn't connected to other religions.

    So Islam claims to be connected to the bible(both old and new testament).

    3 Requirements are required.
    1. Bloodline, the connection to the jewish people or as the bible believes(until Jesus) god's "chosen ones". Jesus was linked to david and abraham, there fore christianity has this connection.
    [X] No bloodline connection from Islam.

    2. Same doctrine.
    [X] Nope. Islam neither follows the system Jesus set up nor the traditional Jewish system. Almost none of the laws are the same, there is no need for sacrifices or Jesus's "forgiveness".

    3. Same god.
    [x] Islam's god shares none of the same tendencies or actions that the jewish or christian god exhibits. He does not use hellfire, nor does he preach forgiveness/peace/tolerance.


    So if anyone ever tells you "Islam is part of X" tell them to shove it up their ass.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------


    Just some pre-emptive responses:

    No, the bible was not "corrupted" or whatever.

    Even if it was, claiming to be part of a corrupted source would make you corrupted by default.


  2. #2
    Ferris Bueller's Avatar
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    Are you trolling?
    If you are, then I'm taking the bait.


    First of all, I have no idea who placed these "requirements".

    If it was you, then I'm sorry but this thread is just invalid.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Second, I would just like to check this link right here: Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So educate yourself with that link. Also, read about Abraham here: Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    1. Bloodline Connection: Prophet muhammad is in fact related to Abraham.
    Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    According to Muslim tradition, Muhammad himself was a Hanif and one of the descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham.
    Ishmael - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Also look under the "Descendants" tab, It says how muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael, thus a descendant of Abraham as well.
    Kedar, (in Arabic قيدر pronounced Qaidar) father of the Qedarites, a northern Arab tribe that controlled the area between the Persian Gulf and the Sinai Peninsula. According to tradition, he is the ancestor of the Quraysh tribe, and thus of the Islamic prophet, Muhammad.
    That's as much info as i'm going to write but there's much more to it. You can look it up.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    2. Same doctrine. Once again you are mistaken.
    Islam shares as many principles with christianity and judiasm as judiasm has with christianity and so on.
    For example, Jewish people can't eat pig nor drink alcohol. Muslims can't either. This is just a quick example off the top of my head and it is really minor.(I realize that)
    For a somewhat clearer view, here's a small comparison.(nothing too detailed) Comparison Chart: Islam, Judaism and Christianity - ReligionFacts

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    3. While it isn't the same god, all 3 gods are very similar. Some differences are Christians believe god had a son. Muslims and Jews(i think) don't believe that.
    the muslim god does talk about hellfire ALOT and he does use it, it goes by the name of Jahannam.
    Here's a little link on that: Jahannam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sorry my reply isn't perfect(lots of links not much evidence) but i hope you get the idea. I'm kind of doing stuff right now

    Also, am I the only muslim who can debate on mpgh?

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

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  4. #3
    Empire's Avatar
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    Basic requirements, you can say it was by me but its almost entirely obvious considering christianity's relationship to Judaism. Otherwise any religion could claim to be part of another religion without any real connection.

    1. According to the belief, there is no bloodline or genealogy root within muhammed provided by Islam.

    2. Why would you be stupid enough to believe the Ishmael story? His descendants are not linked directly to muhammed at all. It's like me claiming to be the descendant of George Washington without a shred of proof because he had a son. Just because people say he is and provide no proof, does not mean he is.

    3. Doctrine:
    You do know that Muslims practice almost none of the customs Jews/Christians do right? I mean basically everything is different from Christians, the Jews have entirely different customs and the similarities are basically just that, they don't eat pork. That's it!
    ps: Jews can drink alcohol.
    -I'm just wondering here, are you completely retarded? or do you actually think Jewish/Christian customs are the same as Muslim ones?!

    4. The muslim god is about as similar as the Hindu god or Buddha, they aren't. They show none of the same behavior.......at all.
    --------------------

    Now seeing as you probably don't know shit about any of the three religions, i think I might have overkilled the response.


  5. #4
    Paradox_x's Avatar
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    empire every time i see a islam thread lmao your the one spamming random wrong shit xD

    i dont even wana engage here sir but you might want to actually talk to people next time sir.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox_x View Post
    empire every time i see a islam thread lmao your the one spamming random wrong shit xD

    i dont even wana engage here sir but you might want to actually talk to people next time sir.
    Please, feel free to actually post relating to the thread instead of spamming.


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    Ferris Bueller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Basic requirements, you can say it was by me but its almost entirely obvious considering christianity's relationship to Judaism. Otherwise any religion could claim to be part of another religion without any real connection.

    1. According to the belief, there is no bloodline or genealogy root within muhammed provided by Islam.

    2. Why would you be stupid enough to believe the Ishmael story? His descendants are not linked directly to muhammed at all. It's like me claiming to be the descendant of George Washington without a shred of proof because he had a son. Just because people say he is and provide no proof, does not mean he is.

    3. Doctrine:
    You do know that Muslims practice almost none of the customs Jews/Christians do right? I mean basically everything is different from Christians, the Jews have entirely different customs and the similarities are basically just that, they don't eat pork. That's it!
    ps: Jews can drink alcohol.
    -I'm just wondering here, are you completely retarded? or do you actually think Jewish/Christian customs are the same as Muslim ones?!

    4. The muslim god is about as similar as the Hindu god or Buddha, they aren't. They show none of the same behavior.......at all.
    --------------------

    Now seeing as you probably don't know shit about any of the three religions, i think I might have overkilled the response.
    Seeing as how you think I'm a complete ignorant retard, would you please tell me how judiasm and christianity are similar?

    Also when you say "I don't know why you would believe the Ishameel story", might I remind you that religion is completely faith based?

    It's not about solid proof.

    So like I said, please explain to me how judiasm and christianity are similar, sir.

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Johnson View Post


    Seeing as how you think I'm a complete ignorant retard, would you please tell me how judiasm and christianity are similar?

    Also when you say "I don't know why you would believe the Ishameel story", might I remind you that religion is completely faith based?

    It's not about solid proof.

    So like I said, please explain to me how judiasm and christianity are similar, sir.
    Ok first off, i'll reply to how judaism and christianity are similar, but i'm going address the stupidity of "completely faith based":

    1.You see, even within the religious community and doctrine, there is a sort of underlining consistency within a religion, especially dealing with "prophecy" and such. Religions don't just "link" to each other. It's always the NEW religion that has to link itself to the old, in the case of Islam the link just isn't there. Even if you wanted to say "well i believe it is" there is no reason to take it seriously. The people who claim he is from Ishmael have absolutely no proof whatsoever, especially given that muhammad isn't a "jew" to begin with.


    2. Judaism and christianity are linked by the "prophecy" of one of the prophets, Jesus was supposedly meant to fufill such prophecy. Jesus was also linked through the bloodline of david/abraham as stated in one of the first books. Muhammad and Islam have no bloodline nor connection to the Jewish prophecy.
    -Now, of course you could claim the god changed and is completely different, all the more power to yah there, but the subject is Islam no Christianity or Judaism.
    -------------

    As for the "it's not about solid proof".

    Well then isn't my point more valid considering the inconsistencies given? You don't even need "solid proof" to spot the lack of a connection between Islam and Christianity.


    It would be similar if I related Islam to Scientology, they both are a "religion" so why not?
    Last edited by Empire; 01-08-2014 at 06:19 PM.


  9. #8
    Ferris Bueller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Ok first off, i'll reply to how judaism and christianity are similar, but i'm going address the stupidity of "completely faith based":

    1.You see, even within the religious community and doctrine, there is a sort of underlining consistency within a religion, especially dealing with "prophecy" and such. You see, religions don't just "link" to each other. It's always the NEW religion that has to link itself to the old, in the case of Islam the link just isn't there. Even if you wanted to say "well i believe it is" there is no reason to take it seriously. The people who claim he is from Ishmael have absolutely no proof whatsoever, especially given that muhammad isn't a "jew" to begin with.


    2. Judaism and christianity are linked by the "prophecy" of one of the prophets, Jesus was supposedly meant to fufill such prophecy. Jesus was also linked through the bloodline of david/abraham as stated in one of the first books. Muhammad and Islam have no bloodline nor connection to the Jewish prophecy.
    -Now, of course you could claim the god changed and is completely different, all the more power to yah there, but the subject is Islam no Christianity or Judaism.
    -------------

    As for the "it's not about solid proof".

    Well then isn't my point more valid considering the inconsistencies given? You don't even need "solid proof" to spot the lack of a connection between Islam and Christianity.


    It would be similar if I related Islam to Scientology, they both are a "religion" so why not?
    One thing you are right about is the lack of prophecy/ mention of Islam in other Abrahimic religion books.

    Now, I have to admit, I have thought about this topic before and like every other followers of religion I just ignored the obvious lack of info. See if I think about this crap too much, which somewhere I know is true, I would turn athiest. I will confess that LOTS of things in religion are wrong/bogus/contradictory.

    But, like I said, part of muslim faith is that islam is 100% connected to judiasm and christianity.

    Maybe there's ALOT of lack of information, but it's what they believe in, you know?

    But I mean it's better to think that there is a connection somewhere than not. I mean it's something to unite people, you know?

    Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.


    But back on track, there are ALOT of similarities between the 3 abrahamic religions and all the priests/sheikhs/rabis that have recognized this aren't complete retards. I like to think they know what they're talking about.(Even though most of the time they don't).

    The significance jerusalem to all 3 religions, the presence of a holy book, the one god mindset(which isn't present within most christians), the fact that they all started in the middle east, etc... I mean these aren't just coincidences...

    Also, obviously the practices are different but we're talking about the thought. I don't know how to describe it. Just the idea you know? Like the idea of a god out there, the idea of the afterlife, hell, all that crap. You know similarities like stories about prophets, and the sins.

    Religions change over time, stuff that was present in judiasm isn't present in christianity and so on.

    I'M TRYING ALRIGHT EMPIRE!

    kind of hard to defend religion when deep down you feel like it's bs xD
    Last edited by Martin Johnson; 01-08-2014 at 06:20 PM.

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

  10. #9
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    Well problem is that "faith" could be linking Islam to hinduism or buddhism and there wouldn't be a difference in it.

    They are just coincidences...... outside of Jerusalem, none of those are even relative.
    One god? That's....a lot of religions.
    Started in the middle east. That's a pretty big area.....especially not to start in a jewish city the relavence is pretty low.
    Trying to relate these and say they are a "connection" is again, not logical.

    The thought between Christianity, Islam, and Judaism is significantly different. Each has a different way to go to heaven, each one has different laws they must abide by, and each one has different prophets with different motives.
    ------------------------

    Just saying, the link between Islam and the other "abrahamic" religions isn't really there.


  11. #10
    Ferris Bueller's Avatar
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    So yeah, like I said, deep down I agree with you, but my religious side is the one I choose to hang on to.

    Because I already see the flaws with religion and could turn athiest any minute.

    I really just choose to stay religious, for now at least.

    Now, watch some of the other muslims that hang out around this section come in and say "OH BUT ISLAM WAS PREDICTED IN THE OTHER HOLY BOOKS BUT THEY WERE CORRUPTED AND THEY REMOVED THE PART ABOUT ISLAM"

    At least it's what your average muslim's response would be.

    You know, the one's that don't know anything about religion other than what their sheik/priest/rabbi tells them. It's pretty bad.

    "“Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you—even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition. Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world. So none of this is happening. Such things could not occur. Never a word of it is literally true.” .”
    I was Martin Johnson

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    robinvanpersie's Avatar
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    Prophet Muhammad pbuh is a descendant of Abraham. The OP then says there is no bloodline or genealogy root proving this but accepts prophet Jesus pbuh being a descendant of prophet David pbuh and prophet Abraham pbuh, without bloodline or genealogy root. We don't need bloodline to prove they are connected, prophets of Judaism and Christianity are also prophets of Islam.

    Of course they have the same doctrine. They all believe: in one God, no sex before marriage, homosexuality is a sin, forgiveness, patience, control your anger, just to name a few.

    Islam does preach tolerance and forgiveness. Hundreds of verses saying God is forgiving, just from the Quran: Verses of the Qur?an about forgiveness

    The title of Abrahamic religions alone proves they are all linked.
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 01-14-2014 at 01:38 PM.

  13. #12
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    This thread is either a complete joke or OP is a retard.

    Prophet Muhammad pbuh is a descendant of Abraham. The OP then says there is no bloodline or genealogy root proving this but accepts prophet Jesus pbuh being a descendant of prophet David pbuh and prophet Abraham pbuh, without bloodline or genealogy root. We don't need bloodline to prove they are connected, prophets of Judaism and Christianity are also prophets of Islam.

    Of course they have the same doctrine. They all believe: in one God, no sex before marriage, homosexuality is a sin, forgiveness, patience, control your anger, just to name a few.

    Islam does preach tolerance and forgiveness. Hundreds of verses saying God is forgiving, just from the Quran: Verses of the Qur?an about forgiveness

    The title of Abrahamic religions alone proves they are all linked.
    Well according to the bible.....most of humanity is a "descendant of Abraham" so your point isn't really....there.
    -Though I don't believe in christianity, they state in the very start the bloodline that links Jesus to David and Abraham. Muhammad doesn't do this at all, he states no direct relation to the David or Abraham.

    Those are similarities, sort of. "patience, control your anger, homosexuality is a sin" aren't part of the doctrine of all three, especially if you've read the books.

    :/ Islam does not preach tolerance. Personal forgiveness sure, but tolerance to people who are not muslims is not a part of Islam.
    ===========

    The title of Abrahamic religions proves they are linked? Islam claims. It does not provide sufficient link to the other religions nor does it involve the jewish people.


  14. #13
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Well according to the bible.....most of humanity is a "descendant of Abraham" so your point isn't really....there.
    -Though I don't believe in christianity, they state in the very start the bloodline that links Jesus to David and Abraham. Muhammad doesn't do this at all, he states no direct relation to the David or Abraham.

    Those are similarities, sort of. "patience, control your anger, homosexuality is a sin" aren't part of the doctrine of all three, especially if you've read the books.

    :/ Islam does not preach tolerance. Personal forgiveness sure, but tolerance to people who are not muslims is not a part of Islam.
    ===========

    The title of Abrahamic religions proves they are linked? Islam claims. It does not provide sufficient link to the other religions nor does it involve the jewish people.
    In that website there are hundreds of verses from the Quran saying God is forgiving. In fact Jews and Christians are considered believers by Muslims and are referred to as people of the book in the Quran. But Muslims are not accepted in Judaism and Christians. Islam does preach tolerance:

    And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." -18:29 Quran

    You are not grasping what I am saying. It is common sense that those religions are linked together. Go study the commonalities between them and it will become evident.
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 01-14-2014 at 02:00 PM.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  15. #14
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    In that website there are hundreds of verses from the Quran saying God is forgiving. In fact Jews and Christians are considered believers by Muslims and are referred to as people of the book in the Quran. But Muslims are not accepted in Judaism and Christians. Islam does preach tolerance:

    And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." -18:29 Quran

    You are not grasping what I am saying. It is common sense that those religions are linked together. Go study the commonalities between them and it will become evident.
    Ok lets try this. You post a verse of forgiveness, I'll post verses showing intolerance

    Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
    -Quran 9:29.

    http://quran.com/9/7-9
    Surat Al-Baqarah [2:65] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    http://quran.com/5/59
    http://quran.com/33/60-62


    Keep in mind: Peace is negated by violence.
    ------------------------------
    Huh, this is something I run into a lot here.

    Muslims have this incredible lacking of basic comprehension skills(hope not all muslims are like this).

    Example:
    "It's common sense"
    "I believe"
    "Because I believe"
    "Just because"

    Do not prove your point. If you can't provide an argument, you don't have one.
    ------------------------------

    Arguing with myself here:

    Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:67] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

    This is actually what muslims believe of Abraham. That the other religions were wrong and that only Islam knows the true history of Abrahams legacy.
    -But then never actually explains any of it, just claims the people from the bible were muslim and nothing more.(no wonder the jews laughed at him).


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