Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 92
  1. #76
    Empire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    male
    Location
    .Alwayz.
    Posts
    19,901
    Reputation
    659
    Thanks
    1,345
    My Mood
    Pensive
    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Come on dude it is entirely those "muslims" fault. I will challenge you. If you post just one verse from the Quran in context where it talks about violence and it does not say stop fighting if the opponent stops fighting, then I will agree with you that Islam is violent. Just one verse.

    Again, you have to link verses earlier in the quran to counter them. Hence contradiction and a pointless argument as Muhammad clearly used those verses to justify his war.

    Looks like you should just agree with me and admit that Islam is violent like you said.
    ===========

    Big surprise another Muslim won't even keep his own promise.


  2. #77
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    male
    Posts
    443
    Reputation
    57
    Thanks
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post



    Again, you have to link verses earlier in the quran to counter them. Hence contradiction and a pointless argument as Muhammad clearly used those verses to justify his war.

    Looks like you should just agree with me and admit that Islam is violent like you said.
    ===========

    Big surprise another Muslim won't even keep his own promise.
    You are being dishonest. The next verses explained the verses you posted, I didn't have to link earlier parts of the Quran. Look at the number of times I said, "the next verse."
    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie
    http://quran.com/2/244
    It says to fight in the cause of Allah and the next verses explains the cause:
    They said, "And why should we not fight in the cause of Allah when we have been driven out from our homes and from our children?" – 2:246
    Surat Al-Baqarah [2:216] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    It says to fight those who try to force you to leave Islam, the next verse explains that:
    And they will continue to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they are able. – 2:217
    Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:56] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:151] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Those verses state that God will punish those He deems worthy, it does not say anything about fighting anyone.
    Surat An-Nisa' [4:76] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    It says fight the allies of Satan not innocent people; those who cause chaos and mischief in the world.
    Surat An-Nisa' [4:89] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    This verse says to fight those who want to change your belief. The next verse says:
    Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them. 4:90
    Surat An-Nisa' [4:95-96] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    This verse says that God loves those who fight for God’s cause not those who are cowards. Again, God’s cause is to fight those: who oppress you, force you to believe something, and who drive you away from your home.
    Surat Al-Ma'idah [5:33] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    It says to fight those who wage war on you, start of the verse:
    Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed. - 5:33
    Surat Al-'Anfal [8:12] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    That verse says God will punish those who disbelieve. It does not say anything about fighting.
    Surat Al-'Anfal [8:15] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    This verse says to not run away from battle by being a coward. From the previous verses it is clear you only fight someone else who wages war on you or oppresses you.
    Surat Al-'Anfal [8:39] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Again it says to only fight if they fight you, the previous verse:
    Say to those who have disbelieved [that] if they cease, what has previously occurred will be forgiven for them. But if they return [to hostility] - then the precedent of the former [rebellious] peoples has already taken place. -8:39
    Surat Al-'Anfal [8:57] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Again it is talking about when the opponent has waged war on you. A couple of verses later:
    And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing. – 8:60
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:5] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Again it is talking about when the polytheists are fighting you then you should fight to defend. The next verse:
    And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. – 9:6
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:14] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Again it says to fight those who fight you first, the previous verse:
    Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers. -9:13
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:29] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Again it means to fight those who fight or oppress you as mentioned a few verses earlier that I posted, 9:14. Also here is the interpretation from a scholar:
    These Ayat (Quranic verses) stress the necessity of fighting against the People of the Scripture, but under what conditions? We previously established the fact that the Islamic State is not permitted to attack non-Muslims who are not hostile to Islam, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to convert Muslims by force from their religion, or expel them from their lands, or wage war against them, or prepare for attacks against them. If any of these offenses occurs, however, Muslims are permitted to defend themselves and protect their religion. Muslims are not permitted to attack non-Muslims who signed peace pacts with them, or non-Muslims who live under the protection of the Islamic State. (Abualrub, Holy Wars, Crusades, Jihad)
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:38-39] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:41] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:73] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:88] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:111] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:123] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
    Again all of these verses are from the same chapter and they teach to fight in the cause of Allah, which I hope by now is obvious. It is not to convert everyone to Islam, but to not be a coward and to fight those who oppress you, force you to believe something, wage war on you, and drive you from your home.
    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie
    Come on dude it is entirely those "muslims" fault. I will challenge you. If you post just one verse from the Quran in context where it talks about violence and it does not say stop fighting if the opponent stops fighting, then I will agree with you that Islam is violent. Just one verse.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  3. #78
    Empire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    male
    Location
    .Alwayz.
    Posts
    19,901
    Reputation
    659
    Thanks
    1,345
    My Mood
    Pensive
    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    You are being dishonest. The next verses explained the verses you posted, I didn't have to link earlier parts of the Quran. Look at the number of times I said, "the next verse."
    Again, the next verse did not say that and a "number of times" is not all of them(nor even half)

    Regardless if you want to play it off, they still condone violence without halting.


    :/

    I never expected you to "admit defeat", but it's kind of sad how little of a fight you put up.

    I mean basically all you did was say "nah uh"

    take for example:
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:5] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

    -Your response:
    "Again it is talking about when the polytheists are fighting you then you should fight to defend. The next verse:
    And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. – 9:6
    http://quran.com/9/6"


    However 9:6 does not say "fight a defensive war" neither does 9:4.


    In fact the summary of the Quran 9:4-6 goes like this:
    "Don't kill people you have a treaty with until the treaty ends"
    "Then kill the poltheist every chance you get, but if they repent accept them"
    "If they surrender, give them protection"(i.e. you just conquered them)
    Surat At-Tawbah [9:4-6] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????


    Honestly I can do this for just about all of them but it's a waste of my time.

    We all know you are just gonna pussy out and claim my points are invalid "because i'm not a muslim" like you've been doing.


  4. #79
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    male
    Posts
    443
    Reputation
    57
    Thanks
    29
    I already explained that to Nev666 on the previous page.
    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    No it does not, and this is the reason why you should read the verse in context of the chapter, previous verse:
    And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?" – 4:75



    [2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion:
    [18:29] Proclaim: "This is the truth from your Lord," then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve.
    [16:125] You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.




    Never read a verse without it's context:

    Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. -9:4

    And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. -9:5

    And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. -9:6

    How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. -9:7

    How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient. -9:8

    They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing. -9:9

    They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors. -9:10



    Posting verses from the Quran out of context proves no point. You see the verses out of context and because that is what you want Islam to be, you accept the verses. Without questioning or critically thinking about the sources where you are getting these verses out of context from, and what their agenda is.
    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Everyone group have their good and their bad. They had a treaty to ensure peace but some of the polytheists broke it later on when they started oppressing Muslims again. The verse is saying to go kill only those polytheists because they killed and oppressed innocent Muslims, after they promised they wouldn't. That was when the verse was revealed to prophet Muhammad pbuh:

    How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient. -9:8

    They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors. -9:10

    It doesn't mean all polytheists and the reason it says to fight them isn't because they are polytheists.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  5. #80
    Empire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    male
    Location
    .Alwayz.
    Posts
    19,901
    Reputation
    659
    Thanks
    1,345
    My Mood
    Pensive
    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    I already explained that to Nev666 on the previous page.
    Well again, you seem to brush it off as "if i put out any answer it's correct" when you really just dug yourself a deeper hole.

    "How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient. -9:8
    They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors. -9:10"


    -Oh look, justification for disregarding the treaty.(Which you posted, lol).

    Again, I believe you were supposed to admit defeat.

    Surat Al-Furqan [25:72] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

    Be careful not to make false oaths......


  6. #81
    Priam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Gender
    male
    Location
    Andromeda's galaxy
    Posts
    2,363
    Reputation
    231
    Thanks
    450
    My Mood
    Relaxed
    So why all terrorists who bomb theirselves accept that they are muslims ?

  7. #82
    Jew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Gender
    male
    Location
    <dd style="overflow: hidden;">here</dd>
    Posts
    3,866
    Reputation
    289
    Thanks
    2,140
    My Mood
    Amazed
    Quote Originally Posted by maria.garefis View Post
    So why all terrorists who bomb theirselves accept that they are muslims ?
    first of all "all" is a pretty powerfull word,and saying that every terrorist is a muslim = every muslim is a terrorist is stupid

    all squares are rectangles,but all rectangles arent squares

  8. #83
    Priam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Gender
    male
    Location
    Andromeda's galaxy
    Posts
    2,363
    Reputation
    231
    Thanks
    450
    My Mood
    Relaxed
    Quote Originally Posted by Ex0rPl4net View Post
    first of all "all" is a pretty powerfull word,and saying that every terrorist is a muslim = every muslim is a terrorist is stupid

    all squares are rectangles,but all rectangles arent squares
    So why most of terrorists who bomb theirselves accept that they are muslims ? Answer this than.

  9. #84
    Empire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    male
    Location
    .Alwayz.
    Posts
    19,901
    Reputation
    659
    Thanks
    1,345
    My Mood
    Pensive
    Quote Originally Posted by maria.garefis View Post


    So why most of terrorists who bomb theirselves accept that they are muslims ? Answer this than.
    Terrorist can be muslims, what's the big deal?

    The debate should be on Islam and what you can use it for. Not the beliefs of a terrorist.


  10. #85
    Priam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Gender
    male
    Location
    Andromeda's galaxy
    Posts
    2,363
    Reputation
    231
    Thanks
    450
    My Mood
    Relaxed
    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Terrorist can be muslims, what's the big deal?

    The debate should be on Islam and what you can use it for. Not the beliefs of a terrorist.
    Was just sayin. If Muslim is the perfect religion, why some of them turn into terrorists ?

  11. #86
    Empire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    male
    Location
    .Alwayz.
    Posts
    19,901
    Reputation
    659
    Thanks
    1,345
    My Mood
    Pensive
    Quote Originally Posted by maria.garefis View Post


    Was just sayin. If Muslim is the perfect religion, why some of them turn into terrorists ?
    I don't any muslim could make the case for Islam being perfect or even within reasonable standards of "good for mankind"


  12. #87
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    male
    Posts
    443
    Reputation
    57
    Thanks
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Well again, you seem to brush it off as "if i put out any answer it's correct" when you really just dug yourself a deeper hole.

    "How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient. -9:8
    They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors. -9:10"


    -Oh look, justification for disregarding the treaty.(Which you posted, lol).

    Again, I believe you were supposed to admit defeat.

    Surat Al-Furqan [25:72] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

    Be careful not to make false oaths......
    You have no clue about the historical context of that chapter and if you paid attention like Nev666 you would understand. The Muslims and polytheists had a treaty. The polytheists broke it. Those verses were then revealed to Prophet Muhammad pbuh telling him to complete the treaty until it finishes and then fight those who broke the treaty. Those who do not want peace and continue to fight and oppress Muslims.

    Quote Originally Posted by maria.garefis View Post
    So why all terrorists who bomb theirselves accept that they are muslims ?
    They are brainwashed and think they are following Islam. Read about the Wahabi ideology funded by Zionists that is used to brainwash Muslims into extremism.
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 07-15-2014 at 04:20 AM.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  13. #88
    Empire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    male
    Location
    .Alwayz.
    Posts
    19,901
    Reputation
    659
    Thanks
    1,345
    My Mood
    Pensive
    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    You have no clue about the historical context of that chapter and if you paid attention like Nev666 you would understand. The Muslims and polytheists had a treaty. The polytheists broke it. Those verses were then revealed to Prophet Muhammad pbuh telling him to complete the treaty until it finishes and then fight those who broke the treaty. Those who do not want peace and continue to fight and oppress Muslims.
    How petty is your argument that you have to ignore the verses you post?

    "They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient. "

    The best part about this is that in the end it was Muhammad who would break a treaty, effectively starting a war.



    Last edited by Empire; 07-15-2014 at 09:19 PM.


  14. #89
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    male
    Posts
    443
    Reputation
    57
    Thanks
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    [COLOR="Black"]

    How petty is your argument that you have to ignore the verses you post?

    "They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient. "

    The best part about this is that in the end it was Muhammad who would break a treaty, effectively starting a war.
    That line you are quoting is talking about what happened. The polytheists said they would agree to treaty to ensure peace but then they broke it. It is a historical fact, any scholar of Islam whether they are Muslim or not knows this. You are ignoring what scholars of Islam are saying and are believing what a website without an author who hasn't studied Islam is saying.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  15. #90
    Empire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    male
    Location
    .Alwayz.
    Posts
    19,901
    Reputation
    659
    Thanks
    1,345
    My Mood
    Pensive
    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    That line you are quoting is talking about what happened. The polytheists said they would agree to treaty to ensure peace but then they broke it. It is a historical fact, any scholar of Islam whether they are Muslim or not knows this. You are ignoring what scholars of Islam are saying and are believing what a website without an author who hasn't studied Islam is saying.
    What the hell are you on about? A website without an author? Huh?

    No, I'm talking about the good old caravan raids. Hence a treaty, not the treaty.

    Reading comprehension, gotta have it.


Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. IM DOING SOMETHING WRONG!
    By dane98 in forum Combat Arms Help
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-28-2011, 10:28 AM
  2. what's wrong?
    By ovenran in forum CrossFire Hack Coding / Programming / Source Code
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-08-2010, 05:35 PM
  3. Wtf is wrong with it.
    By ~Just IN~ in forum Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 GSC Modding Help/Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-06-2010, 10:57 AM
  4. Wrong Time Is Wrong
    By Corndog in forum General
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-02-2010, 05:14 AM
  5. Wtf is Wrong?
    By Roar, in forum Flaming & Rage
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-30-2009, 06:27 PM