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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Again it is the same verse just translated differently. There is probably not an exact English word for that word in Arabic.
    transgress - go beyond the limits of (what is morally, socially, or legally acceptable).
    aggress - to commit the first act of hostility or offense; attack first.

    Also I didn't translate it. The person who created the website did it, I posted the link.

    You said Greek not Greek Gods. Again similar reason: I don't believe in those man-made concepts of God because no one has seen God so therefore any images of God are man made.
    Again it's not the same verse(nor the correct one). The reason you are using this is for apologetics, which in itself is pretty dishonest.


    You don't believe in other religions because they are man-made concepts? Please, explain to me how the concept of Allah is not man-made.


    If no one has ever seen god, then why believe he exist?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    Again it's not the same verse(nor the correct one). The reason you are using this is for apologetics, which in itself is pretty dishonest.

    You don't believe in other religions because they are man-made concepts? Please, explain to me how the concept of Allah is not man-made.

    If no one has ever seen god, then why believe he exist?
    Read the Quran and find out why. Most basic teaching of Islam: The purpose of this life is to test your belief in God. It can't be tested if God reveals Himself to everyone. I am surprised someone who is claiming to have read the Quran didn't know that.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Read the Quran and find out why. Most basic teaching of Islam: The purpose of this life is to test your belief in God. It can't be tested if God reveals Himself to everyone. I am surprised someone who is claiming to have read the Quran didn't know that.
    So you think that is a good system? Believing in something without justification for the sake of a unverified reward?

    Seriously, I'm still not getting why you don't believe in another religion. Your standard of evidence and belief are at the absolute bottom, you might as well believe any religion or supernatural claim ever.


  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    So you think that is a good system? Believing in something without justification for the sake of a unverified reward?

    Seriously, I'm still not getting why you don't believe in another religion. Your standard of evidence and belief are at the absolute bottom, you might as well believe any religion or supernatural claim ever.
    I have my justifications and I don't do it for the reward I do it simply because I truly believe in God.

    What is there to not get? I told you, the most basic reason(there are obviously many more), I don't believe the religions you mentioned is because: I don't believe in those man-made concepts of God because no one has seen God so therefore any images of God are man made.

    You have no counter argument to this reason.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    I have my justifications and I don't do it for the reward I do it simply because I truly believe in God.

    What is there to not get? I told you, the most basic reason(there are obviously many more), I don't believe the religions you mentioned is because: I don't believe in those man-made concepts of God because no one has seen God so therefore any images of God are man made.

    You have no counter argument to this reason.
    But you haven't shown your justification to be anywhere near viable.

    Again, you haven't shown that "allah" or your god, is not a man-made concept, so I'm just wondering where you draw the line.

    Because to atheist, your god is just one of thousands. The fact that you cannot show him to be any different than Odin, makes me question why you don't believe in a better god.
    Last edited by Empire; 10-31-2014 at 06:38 PM.


  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    But you haven't shown your justification to be anywhere near viable.

    Again, you haven't shown that "allah" or your god, is not a man-made concept, so I'm just wondering where you draw the line.

    Because to atheist, your god is just one of thousands. The fact that you cannot show him to be any different than Odin, makes me question why you don't believe in a better god.
    A reason why you are atheist is because you don't understand the concept of God from an Islamic perspective. There is only one God who no one has seen, every object, person, image of something, labelled as "God," is not a God, but a man made concept. The fact that 1.6 billion people believe in Allah swt and no one believes in Odin doesn't prove no different to you? Again the same and most basic reason why I don't believe in the man made concept of Odin, just like the other religions you mentioned: I don't believe in those man-made concepts of God because no one has seen God so therefore any images of God are man made.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    A reason why you are atheist is because you don't understand the concept of God from an Islamic perspective.
    No, I'm atheist because no one has been able to convince me of a god, much more so a theistic god.


    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    There is only one God who no one has seen, every object, person, image of something, labelled as "God," is not a God, but a man made concept.
    Ok cool, thanks for admitting that Allah is a man-made concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    The fact that 1.6 billion people believe in Allah swt and no one believes in Odin doesn't prove no different to you?.
    Why do you bother arguing from popularity? Before Islam the Romans had a higher %. Now the Hindu's have an even % with the muslims. You are arguing which is true by popularity or "bandwagon"
    https:/rlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon
    (idiot)

    https:/rlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon


    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    I don't believe in those man-made concepts of God because no one has seen God so therefore any images of God are man made.
    If no one has seen god, how do you know he exist. That's the point, you are claiming existence for a being in which you outright admit no one has experienced.


  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    No, I'm atheist because no one has been able to convince me of a god, much more so a theistic god.


    There is only one God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Ok cool, thanks for admitting that Allah is a man-made concept.
    I didn't because Allah swt is not a person, object, or an image of something.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Why do you bother arguing from popularity? Before Islam the Romans had a higher %. Now the Hindu's have an even % with the muslims. You are arguing which is true by popularity or "bandwagon"
    https:/rlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon
    (idiot)

    https:/rlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon
    Answer the question. Billions of people believe in God, but none believe in Unicorns etc. Does that not show the difference to you, why to you keep comparing things to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    If no one has seen god, how do you know he exist. That's the point, you are claiming existence for a being in which you outright admit no one has experienced.
    The Quran is my evidence. Also Allah swt isn't a being, and these messengers (peace be upon them all) have spread his message:

    Adam
    Idris (Enoch)
    Nuh (Noah)
    Hud
    Saleh
    Ibrahim (Abraham)
    Isma'il (Ishmael)
    Ishaq (Isaac)
    Lut (Lot)
    Ya'qub (Jacob)
    Yousef (Joseph)
    Shu'aib
    Ayyub (Job)
    Musa (Moses)
    Harun (Aaron)
    Dhu'l-kifl (Ezekiel)
    Dawud (David)
    Sulaiman (Solomon)
    Ilias (Elias)
    Al-Yasa (Elisha)
    Yunus (Jonah)
    Zakariyya (Zechariah)
    Yahya (John)
    'Isa (Jesus)
    Muhammad
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    There is only one God.
    Prove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    I didn't because Allah swt is not a person, object, or an image of something.
    I'm pretty sure you don't understand those concepts because your allah is definitely all 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Answer the question. Billions of people believe in God, but none believe in Unicorns etc. Does that not show the difference to you, why to you keep comparing things to God?
    Popularity does not equal truth. This is a fallacy.
    >please explain why X(arbitrary) amount of people believing in anything would make it true.

    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    The Quran is my evidence.
    Ok why is the quran true? You are running in circles here.

    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Also Allah swt isn't a being
    According to Islam, Allah is a being. I don't even understand why you are arguing with this, all muslims accept this concept and it's not even controversial in the slightest.
    >please explain why Allah is not a being.

    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    these messengers (peace be upon them all) have spread his message:

    Adam
    Idris (Enoch)
    Nuh (Noah)
    Hud
    Saleh
    Ibrahim (Abraham)
    Isma'il (Ishmael)
    Ishaq (Isaac)
    Lut (Lot)
    Ya'qub (Jacob)
    Yousef (Joseph)
    Shu'aib
    Ayyub (Job)
    Musa (Moses)
    Harun (Aaron)
    Dhu'l-kifl (Ezekiel)
    Dawud (David)
    Sulaiman (Solomon)
    Ilias (Elias)
    Al-Yasa (Elisha)
    Yunus (Jonah)
    Zakariyya (Zechariah)
    Yahya (John)
    'Isa (Jesus)
    All of those people were Jews or Christians who had nothing to do with Islam in their lifetime. In fact, it wasn't until after they were dead for over 500 years that Muhammed commented that they were spreading Islam.

    That would be like me commenting 500 years after you were dead that you were really a Buddhist this entire time.


  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    Prove it.


    I'm pretty sure you don't understand those concepts because your allah is definitely all 3.



    Popularity does not equal truth. This is a fallacy.
    >please explain why X(arbitrary) amount of people believing in anything would make it true.



    Ok why is the quran true? You are running in circles here.



    According to Islam, Allah is a being. I don't even understand why you are arguing with this, all muslims accept this concept and it's not even controversial in the slightest.
    >please explain why Allah is not a being.



    All of those people were Jews or Christians who had nothing to do with Islam in their lifetime. In fact, it wasn't until after they were dead for over 500 years that Muhammed commented that they were spreading Islam.

    That would be like me commenting 500 years after you were dead that you were really a Buddhist this entire time.
    They were all Muslim, by definition. They all spread the same message, to believe in only the one true God. Muslims actually have 4 holy books, tawrut(Torah), injel(gospel), Zabur( given to prophet Dawud pbuh) and the Quran. The only one that hasn't been altered is the Quran.

    Jesus never even mentioned the religion Christianity or the word Christian, those words were invented later, when his message was distorted. The word Muslim and Islam were new words for the same message since the time of Adam pbuh.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    They were all Muslim, by definition. They all spread the same message, to believe in only the one true God. Muslims actually have 4 holy books, tawrut(Torah), injel(gospel), Zabur( given to prophet Dawud pbuh) and the Quran. The only one that hasn't been altered is the Quran.

    Jesus never even mentioned the religion Christianity or the word Christian, those words were invented later, when his message was distorted. The word Muslim and Islam were new words for the same message since the time of Adam pbuh.
    Well no, they weren't. They were all Jews/Christians. They didn't spread the same message at all. Christianity has an entirely different message than Judaism, both of those were entirely different than Islam.

    In fact, you can't prove any of those people were muslims. All you can do is claim they are to retroactively define them as such.

    --------------------------------------
    Jesus never mentioned Christianity?His name was Jesus Christ. Christianity is literally the followers of Jesus.


    Yeah, you are fucking retarded. I mean wow. Never thought I'd hear the argument "Jesus never mentioned christianity".
    ---------------

    You really don't understand history at all do you.


    Person X has a story from 2 years ago.

    Person Y has a comment on the same story, but 500 years later. Person Y also has no evidence for any new comments on this story, outside of "divine revelation".


    I just had a "divine revelation", it said that Muhammed was actually a scientologist all along!


  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    Well no, they weren't. They were all Jews/Christians. They didn't spread the same message at all. Christianity has an entirely different message than Judaism, both of those were entirely different than Islam.

    In fact, you can't prove any of those people were muslims. All you can do is claim they are to retroactively define them as such.

    --------------------------------------
    Jesus never mentioned Christianity?His name was Jesus Christ. Christianity is literally the followers of Jesus.


    Yeah, you are fucking retarded. I mean wow. Never thought I'd hear the argument "Jesus never mentioned christianity".
    ---------------

    You really don't understand history at all do you.


    Person X has a story from 2 years ago.

    Person Y has a comment on the same story, but 500 years later. Person Y also has no evidence for any new comments on this story, outside of "divine revelation".


    I just had a "divine revelation", it said that Muhammed was actually a scientologist all along!
    I meant the original message of the Torah and Injeel before they were changed by man.

    People didn't have surnames back then, his "surname" was not Christ.

    The word Christianity came about in 1300. Prophet Jesus pbuh never mentioned Christianity:
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...wed_in_frame=0

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    I meant the original message of the Torah and Injeel before they were changed by man.

    People didn't have surnames back then, his "surname" was not Christ.

    The word Christianity came about in 1300. Prophet Jesus pbuh never mentioned Christianity:
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...wed_in_frame=0
    You must be the stupidest muslim I've ever met.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...wed_in_frame=0

    The torah was "changed by man"....jeez, I mean is everything a conspiracy theory with you?

    The torah was written by man, so was the quran, and so was the bible. You really are just using baseless assumptions here.


  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    You must be the stupidest muslim I've ever met.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...wed_in_frame=0

    The torah was "changed by man"....jeez, I mean is everything a conspiracy theory with you?

    The torah was written by man, so was the quran, and so was the bible. You really are just using baseless assumptions here.
    I am talking the message of the books. Jews and Christians will admit that the original message of the first Torah and Gospel does not exist anymore.

    With all due respect, you thought Prophet Jesus had Christ as a surname and claimed that he was Christian, even though he never even mentioned the word Christianity. The word Christianity was invented in 1300 with his message distorted.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    I am talking the message of the books. Jews and Christians will admit that the original message of the first Torah and Gospel does not exist anymore.

    With all due respect, you thought Prophet Jesus had Christ as a surname and claimed that he was Christian, even though he never even mentioned the word Christianity. The word Christianity was invented in 1300 with his message distorted.
    :/
    1. Prove the original message was distorted.
    2. Christ was the title given to him, as in "jesus christ/christ jesus" or "the messiah". The christians were people who followed Jesus. It's really not a hard concept.

    2. The word "christianity" is just the english term from what christians already were called and this is a semantical argument which has no value.


    Again, you haven't provided any proof for your conspiracy. You effectively kill any argument you've had because you can't even defend it.


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