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  1. #1
    locuzt's Avatar
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    Convince me that Islam is the truth

    Try to convince me that the principles of Islam are true.

  2. #2
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by locuzt View Post
    Try to convince me that the principles of Islam are true.
    Read the Quran with the aim to understand it: http://quran.com/

    Any questions you have about who the verse is directed to, the historical context behind the verse, the meaning behind verse, then search for it in the Islamic Library: http://www.al-islam.org/

    If you have any genuine questions(not loaded questions) feel free to ask me and I'll try my best to answer.
    Last edited by robinvanpersie; 10-28-2014 at 06:26 AM.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  3. #3
    Empire's Avatar
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    Here's a pretty easy question for you:

    Why should we believe what the quran says is true?


  4. #4
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Here's a pretty easy question for you:

    Why should we believe what the quran says is true?
    Simple answer. The answer is the Quran, read it from beginning to end and you will believe no man could have written it.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  5. #5
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Simple answer. The answer is the Quran, read it from beginning to end and you will believe no man could have written it.
    Question: "Why should we believe the Quran is true?"

    Answer: The Quran.


    (are you fucking retarded?)
    -----------------------------------

    Regarding the "no man could have written it".

    The Quran was written by men. Prove otherwise.


  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Empire For This Useful Post:

    Clique (01-03-2015)

  7. #6
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Question: "Why should we believe the Quran is true?"

    Answer: The Quran.

    Regarding the "no man could have written it".

    The Quran was written by men. Prove otherwise.
    I have read the Quran and I am telling you the message could have not been written by men. You haven't read the Quran and you are saying it was written by men. If you are not willing to at least read the holy book of Muslims then why ask why should I believe that Islam is the truth in the first place?
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  8. #7
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    I have read the Quran and I am telling you the message could have not been written by men. You haven't read the Quran and you are saying it was written by men. If you are not willing to at least read the holy book of Muslims then why ask why should I believe that Islam is the truth in the first place?
    I have read the quran, so your straw-man argument doesn't work. If you are going to sit here and say "well if you read it you'd know" and that's your entire argument, then you might as well leave.

    The fact that I do not take the book for truth, does not mean I have not read it. Learn to come up with better reasons for your belief please.

    Your fallacies today are: Personal Incredulity and straw-man.
    https:/rlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity
    https:/rlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman


  9. #8
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    I have read the quran, so your straw-man argument doesn't work. If you are going to sit here and say "well if you read it you'd know" and that's your entire argument, then you might as well leave.

    The fact that I do not take the book for truth, does not mean I have not read it. Learn to come up with better reasons for your belief please.

    Your fallacies today are: Personal Incredulity and straw-man.
    https:/rlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity
    https:/rlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
    You haven't read the Quran. If you want to know why Islam is the truth then read the Quran, if you don't then don't ask why you should believe it is the truth. Simple.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  10. #9
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    You haven't read the Quran. If you want to know why Islam is the truth then read the Quran, if you don't then don't ask why you should believe it is the truth. Simple.
    Ok since you are going nowhere with this, i'll use a hypothetical:

    Lets say I read the quran and don't believe it's true. Now what?
    ------------
    Last edited by Empire; 10-29-2014 at 06:07 PM.


  11. #10
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    Ok since you are going nowhere with this, i'll use a hypothetical:

    Lets say I read the quran and don't believe it's true. Now what?
    ------------
    Thanks for admitting you haven't read it. You have to read it with the aim to understand it. If you read it properly without skimming through and you understand it, you will believe in it. That is why thousands of people in the west are converting to Islam. Belief in God is a personal thing that no one can prove it to you, you have to prove it to yourself. That is the whole point of faith, if God revealed himself to man then there is no testing of peoples faith in Him, which is what Muslims believe is the purpose of this life.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  12. #11
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Thanks for admitting you haven't read it. You have to read it with the aim to understand it. If you read it properly without skimming through and you understand it, you will believe in it. That is why thousands of people in the west are converting to Islam. Belief in God is a personal thing that no one can prove it to you, you have to prove it to yourself. That is the whole point of faith, if God revealed himself to man then there is no testing of peoples faith in Him, which is what Muslims believe is the purpose of this life.
    I have read it, I just know that you will stop a conversation dead with false accusations if someone says they have read the quran and are not a muslim.
    (It's just so inconcievable that a non-muslim could read the quran, I know)

    So your answer is faith?

    While I applaud your honesty, I don't think faith is a sufficient reason to believe anything. Please explain why it is.


  13. #12
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post

    I have read it, I just know that you will stop a conversation dead with false accusations if someone says they have read the quran and are not a muslim.
    (It's just so inconcievable that a non-muslim could read the quran, I know)

    So your answer is faith?

    While I applaud your honesty, I don't think faith is a sufficient reason to believe anything. Please explain why it is.
    Come on you know and I know you haven't read the Quran. Be honest it is a long book.

    When Imam ‘Ali was asked about Faith in Religion, he replied that the structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad.

    Endurance is composed of four attributes: eagerness, fear, piety and anticipation (of death). So whoever is eager for Paradise will ignore temptations; whoever fears the fire of Hell will abstain from sins; whoever practises piety will easily bear the difficulties of life and whoever anticipates death will hasten towards good deeds.

    Conviction has also four aspects to guard oneself against infatuations of sin; to search for explanation of truth through knowledge; to gain lessons from instructive things and to follow the precedent of the past people, Because whoever wants to guard himself against vices and sins will have to search for the true causes of infatuation and the true ways of combating them out and to find those true ways one has to search them with the help of knowledge, whoever gets fully acquainted with various branches of knowledge will take lessons from life and whoever tries to take lessons from life is actually engaged in the study of the causes of rise and fall of previous civilizations.

    Justice also has four aspects depth of understanding, profoundeness of knowledge, fairness of judgement and dearness of mind; because whoever tries his best to under- stand a problem will have to study it, whoever has the practice of studying the subject he is to deal with, will develop a clear mind and will always come to correct decisions, whoever tries to achieve all this will have to develop ample patience and forbearance and whoever has done this has done justice to the cause of religion and has led a life of good repute and fame.

    Jihad is divided into four branches: to persuade people to be obedient to Allah; to prohibit them from sin and vice; to struggle (in the cause of Allah) sincerely and firmly on all occasions and to detest the vicious. Whoever persuades people to obey the orders of Allah provides strength to the believers; whoever dissuades them from vices and sins humiliates the unbelievers; whoever struggles on all occasions discharges all his obligations and whoever detests the vicious only for the sake of Allah, then Allah will take revenge on his enemies and will be pleased with Him on the Day of Judgement.
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  14. #13
    Empire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinvanpersie View Post
    Come on you know and I know you haven't read the Quran. Be honest it is a long book.
    You honestly think I haven't? Every muslim's first excuse is "you haven't read the book". So I read it. It's not that long actually, I usually read 1k+ page books anyway.

    Anyways, still haven't explained to me why faith is a good reason to believe anything, let alone the quran.
    -You might also want to read what you posted, that's not what faith is.


  15. #14
    robinvanpersie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post


    You honestly think I haven't? Every muslim's first excuse is "you haven't read the book". So I read it. It's not that long actually, I usually read 1k+ page books anyway.

    Anyways, still haven't explained to me why faith is a good reason to believe anything, let alone the quran.
    -You might also want to read what you posted, that's not what faith is.
    It is obvious you haven't from the amount of times I have had to correct you on things. I did explain it, read the quote. Also every person has faith in something, don't you have faith in that there is no afterlife? ?
    Science is learning about the creation, Islam is learning about the creator.

    Alif, Lam, Meem. - 2:1 Quran
    This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah(God) - 2:2 Quran
    Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, - 2:3 Quran
    And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. - 2:4 Quran
    Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. - 2:5 Quran
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. - 2:6 Quran

  16. #15
    CaptainBlastXD's Avatar
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    The effort you put into finding more about the Quran and Islam proves you have read the book.
    Last edited by CaptainBlastXD; 10-31-2014 at 10:33 AM.

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