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    The Quran: not valid.

    Ok here is my thread on the Quran and I'll put a simple argument out here and we can go from there.

    Topic: Why should we believe the quran?



    My argument simplified: The quran is no more valid than any other text for any claim. Objective proof of any supernatural event should be greater than text.

    My argument explained:
    1. Text is not self-evident proof.
    Example: Bob punched jim.
    Explanation: We do not actually know if bob punched jim from that. We don't know if bob or jim actually existed. Now we can say that it's possible that bob did punch jim, we can say it's possible that both jim and bob both existed. But is that actually true? No. Jim and bob don't exist, and my text does not prove that they do.
    Example #2: Jim used his lazer eyes to slice a piece of cheeze then destroyed a distant galaxy to with his cough.
    Explanation: Supernatural claim without any proof other than this text.


    2. The Quran was not originally text, but the story of Muhammed.
    Explanation: This would mean that muhammed himself would be "writing"(speaking) much of the quran. In this, he could make up whatever he wanted and in many of the supernatural events he(or his close friends/family) are the only one present. Leaving us to take Muhammed and his (likely to lie with him) at their word. That is simply not an acceptable basis of truth. We as a society do not believe stories with these level of standards, yet we would need to make an exception for Muhammad. This is called special pleading.


    3. Anectdotal evidence is not sufficient for supernatural claims.(Especially dealing with events, beings, and claims)
    Explanation: Anectdotal evidenceof an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
    We do not make this exception for anything else(especially supernatural claims), I see no reason to use this for Islam.
    >This again applies to #2, "eye witness" testimony is not enough for supernatural claims.



    Counter arguments that always get used(but are really easy to defeat).

    1. "there is none like it" "you can't recreate it".
    -Well yeah, you can. Thousands of people memorize the quran and can rewrite it word for word.
    >Is there another book just like it? No.
    >Does that prove anything? No.

    >There aren't any books just like harry potter, the bible, the hindu holy book, etc. etc., either.
    Simple counter: There are countless other books that have the same ability of being "unique". This does not make them true.

    2. "You just have to want to believe in it".
    >No. This does not prove the Quran true or not at all.

    3. The bible isn't the true story.
    > Don't care. The bible being false does not make the Quran true.

    4. "you just have to have faith".
    >Well if that were true, then you could "just have faith" for any religion. Faith is not a sufficient case for truth.




    Allllrighty, got both my threads done.
    Last edited by Empire; 11-08-2014 at 10:49 PM.


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