Muslims on MPGH

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

Failed Learn the meaning in arabic and not English translation.

There are christians who believe allah is god. but are christian.

There are Jews who believe allah is god. But are Jewish.

Religion is faith. you can worship Satan but still be a christian! Learn your facts bro, not to pick on you but ..yeah..

P.s glad to see someone is doing research even if it is a fail :P

Lol it's not fail at all.
It's all accurate translation from Arabic

So the Yusufali
The Pickthal
and Shakir translations are all wrong right?
Even though I looked at multiple sources besides one?
Stop making stuff up, then pretending you know your stuff.
There is only one way to Heaven and it is through Christ.
If you believe different you're mislead.

Qu'ran=ripped doctrine from older beliefs.

[Mouzie]

Lol it's not fail at all.
It's all accurate translation from Arabic

So the Yusufali
The Pickthal
and Shakir translations are all wrong right?
Even though I looked at multiple sources besides one?
Stop making stuff up, then pretending you know your stuff.
There is only one way to Heaven and it is through Christ.
If you believe different you're mislead.

Qu'ran=ripped doctrine from older beliefs.

So explain to me how Jews are mislead and Judaism is the oldest Abraham religion?

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

So explain to me how Jews are mislead and Judaism is the oldest Abraham religion?

Because Orthodox Jews don't believe that the Messiah that their own scripture foretold of was Jesus. Those Jews that did choose to accept Christ are the exception.

Edit:
I can understand why orthodox Jews refused Christ though..
afterall, Christ didn't fufill any of the prophecies in the Torah.
I'll have to talk to my pastor about a few things,
because there is quite a bit I'm not sure of to be honest.
There is certainly a close link between the 2 belief systems,
but I can completely understand why an Orthodox Jew wouldn't follow the NT.
Anyway..I can still relate to Judaism far more then Islam.

[Casavir]

Correct me if I'm wrong,but Judaism's Messiah is a guy who will take the sons of Israel to a greater kingdom,becoming the greatest king of all.Correct?

Christians(real christians) believe that the Messiah was Jesus,as he's the greatest king,the king of heaven.Not the guy that will make the sons of Israel emperors.

In theory,in christianity there is less blood :P

as for islam.
COME ON GUYS!
it was more like a health project by a merchant (irony)
If Arabs drank wine,at 45 C,they would die from the high temperature due to a heart failure.
also,pork is unhealthy.In a way,unclean.
Maybe islam is a medical system so the Arabic tribes would actually survive.
And Muhammed tried to unite the tribes,that's all.and make them healthy.

I'm joking.

[Visiblegaming]

Muslims, believe the torah, and bible are from Allah, but it is said, got made the torah and bible editable. thus humans edited it through out the past.

E.g:
Old testament = Priests do NOT get paid.
New testament = Priests DO get paid.

This seems like priests are greedy and edited it for there own wealth?

But the torah, even jews can admit has been curropted.

The Quran since, has NEVER been corrupted. Don't qoute me "ENGLISH" translations of the quran because people translate it different, bring me 2 different ARABIC verses which are the same, but written different.

[Mouzie]

Muslims, believe the torah, and bible are from Allah, but it is said, got made the torah and bible editable. thus humans edited it through out the past.

E.g:
Old testament = Priests do NOT get paid.
New testament = Priests DO get paid.

This seems like priests are greedy and edited it for there own wealth?

But the torah, even jews can admit has been curropted.

The Quran since, has NEVER been corrupted. Don't qoute me "ENGLISH" translations of the quran because people translate it different, bring me 2 different ARABIC verses which are the same, but written different.

The Torah can't be edited, regardless, the Torah remained unchanged since it first started. The Torah is the sacred part of the Jewish faith and it is a large scroll as it first was printed out.. not a book: The Torah is the first five stories that you see in the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The Torah is the first Abraham religion written out, so saying that the Jews are 'mislead' is just silly as the Jews are the one who gave Islam and Christianity a chance to form.

[Czar]

WHY
IS
THIS
THREAD
STILL
ALIVE

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

The Torah can't be edited, regardless, the Torah remained unchanged since it first started. The Torah is the sacred part of the Jewish faith and it is a large scroll as it first was printed out.. not a book: The Torah is the first five stories that you see in the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The Torah is the first Abraham religion written out, so saying that the Jews are 'mislead' is just silly as the Jews are the one who gave Islam and Christianity a chance to form.

Well, Islam pretty much slanders Judaismn.
Christianity does not,
Christ went to teach in Synogauges, and in many he was praised,
and in some he was condemned.
Though it's true Christ did not fufill the prophecies while on earth,
he did promise to fufill them in the second coming.
and those that believe would be amongst the 144,000 on Mt Zion.

What can't be debated about every one of our beliefs,
is that there are some very confusing passages in every book.
There are also many doctrines that can be left open for interpretation.
Not every Pastor, Rabbi, or Cleric teaches the same exact way about every piece of Doctrine in these scriptures.
So as believers in God, we need the power of discernment.

[Mouzie]

Well, Islam pretty much slanders Judaismn.
Christianity does not,
Christ went to teach in Synogauges, and in many he was praised,
and in some he was condemned.
Though it's true Christ did not fufill the prophecies while on earth,
he did promise to fufill them in the second coming.
and those that believe would be amongst the 144,000 on Mt Zion.

What can't be debated about every one of our beliefs,
is that there are some very confusing passages in every book.
There are also many doctrines that can be left open for interpretation.
Not every Pastor, Rabbi, or Cleric teaches the same exact way about every piece of Doctrine in these scriptures.
So as believers in God, we need the power of discernment.

Islam speak of the Jewish people with high regard, the Koran does talk about the Torah is 'edited' because it does not have Muhammad in it.

Judaism didn't believes that Christ is the Messiah as he didn't do as what the Jews predicted, but they did believes that the Messiah is coming, and so the Jews will accept it, Christ or not.

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

Islam speak of the Jewish people with high regard, the Koran does talk about the Torah is 'edited' because it does not have Muhammad in it.

Judaism didn't believes that Christ is the Messiah as he didn't do as what the Jews predicted, but they did believes that the Messiah is coming, and so the Jews will accept it, Christ or not.

No..the Qur'an actually has very hypocritical statements involving Jews and Christians. There are some passages that speak alright of them, and then some saying that their worship is wrong.

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

Also..Muslims do not believe Jews are the chosen people of God.
Where Christians do believe Jews are the chosen people. (Not the Pharisees.)

[Mouzie]

No..the Qur'an actually has very hypocritical statements involving Jews and Christians. There are some passages that speak alright of them, and then some saying that their worship is wrong.

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

Also..Muslims do not believe Jews are the chosen people of God.
Where Christians do believe Jews are the chosen people. (Not the Pharisees.)

Here is where I have to say.. you're wrong:

One common verse that Christians like to quote from the Quran is verse 5:51 which reads:

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
Christians like to quote this verse then go on to argue that Muslims are not allowed to be friends with Christians and Jews.
The point of this article is to simply show that Muslims are allowed to be friends with Christians and Jews, and that the verse is actually wrongly translated into friends.
I will first quote a fatwa by a group of scholars concerning this very issue:

"In the verse you quoted, the word "Awliya" is used. It is a plural and its singular is "wali". The correct translation of the word ""wali"" is not "friend" but it is someone who is very close and intimate. It is also used to mean "guardian, protector, patron, lord and master"." -An Islamic friend.

The correct translation of the verse in Surat Al-Ma’idah is: [O you who believe! Do not take Jews and Christians as your patrons. They are patrons of their own people. He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.] (Al-Ma'dah 5: 51)

It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other.

[Visiblegaming]

Here is where I have to say.. you're wrong:

One common verse that Christians like to quote from the Quran is verse 5:51 which reads:

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
Christians like to quote this verse then go on to argue that Muslims are not allowed to be friends with Christians and Jews.
The point of this article is to simply show that Muslims are allowed to be friends with Christians and Jews, and that the verse is actually wrongly translated into friends.
I will first quote a fatwa by a group of scholars concerning this very issue:

"In the verse you quoted, the word "Awliya" is used. It is a plural and its singular is "wali". The correct translation of the word ""wali"" is not "friend" but it is someone who is very close and intimate. It is also used to mean "guardian, protector, patron, lord and master"." -An Islamic friend.

The correct translation of the verse in Surat Al-Ma’idah is: [O you who believe! Do not take Jews and Christians as your patrons. They are patrons of their own people. He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.] (Al-Ma'dah 5: 51)

It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other.

I'm impressed.

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

Here is where I have to say.. you're wrong:

One common verse that Christians like to quote from the Quran is verse 5:51 which reads:

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
Christians like to quote this verse then go on to argue that Muslims are not allowed to be friends with Christians and Jews.
The point of this article is to simply show that Muslims are allowed to be friends with Christians and Jews, and that the verse is actually wrongly translated into friends.
I will first quote a fatwa by a group of scholars concerning this very issue:

"In the verse you quoted, the word "Awliya" is used. It is a plural and its singular is "wali". The correct translation of the word ""wali"" is not "friend" but it is someone who is very close and intimate. It is also used to mean "guardian, protector, patron, lord and master"." -An Islamic friend.

The correct translation of the verse in Surat Al-Ma’idah is: [O you who believe! Do not take Jews and Christians as your patrons. They are patrons of their own people. He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.] (Al-Ma'dah 5: 51)

It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other.

First off..you act like I only quoted one passage.
I already posted a very hypocritical passage in another thread,
concerning this same issue.
If Jews and Muslims are such great friends,
Then explain to me the severity of conflict going on between them back in their homelands, and don't say it's simply political, because that is a crock of shit. Secondly, Muslims only believe what suits their own belief when it comes to the Torah, where Christians openly accept the Torah as God's word. If you are A Jew, then you believe the Jews are rightfully the chosen, special people of God. Christians share this belief as well..or at least those Christians that diligently study doctrine, and are not brainwashed by a jaded Catholic church age. Islam teaches that Muslims are God's chosen. So..explain to me why you're defending this belief system that is openly against our beliefs.

[Mouzie]

First off..you act like I only quoted one passage.
I already posted a very hypocritical passage in another thread,
concerning this same issue.
If Jews and Muslims are such great friends,
Then explain to me the severity of conflict going on between them back in their homelands, and don't say it's simply political, because that is a crock of shit. Secondly, Muslims only believe what suits their own belief when it comes to the Torah, where Christians openly accept the Torah as God's word. If you are A Jew, then you believe the Jews are rightfully the chosen, special people of God. Christians share this belief as well..or at least those Christians that diligently study doctrine, and are not brainwashed by a jaded Catholic church age. Islam teaches that Muslims are God's chosen. So..explain to me why you're defending this belief system that is openly against our beliefs.

I have a Muslim friend, Islam isn't bad, it just like our faith. You shouldn't bash the Islamic faith because of its view. The Islamic people are actually pleasant and nice to be around.

Rather than look at your faith and mine, you should look into theirs, now I am going to say something you might do.. go to a person who does Islam.. like.. preach Islam and ask him questions. The best way to get answers is from the person who teaches the words to the people.

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

I have a Muslim friend, Islam isn't bad, it just like our faith. You shouldn't bash the Islamic faith because of its view. The Islamic people are actually pleasant and nice to be around.

Rather than look at your faith and mine, you should look into theirs, now I am going to say something you might do.. go to a person who does Islam.. like.. preach Islam and ask him questions. The best way to get answers is from the person who teaches the words to the people.

I understand what you're saying,
I guess when it all comes down to it..
all 3 beliefs and their holy books are open for interpretation.
The thing I really don't agree with are some of Islam's teachers and clerics.
I actually know quite a few Muslims through the place I work.
Tbh, I don't really care about what they do.
It's when they slander my own beliefs that gets annoying.
There is one dude I know that is very religious, he is Muslim,
and we can talk about our beliefs openly, and have friendly enough debates.
Now this trollface Visible, attacks the Christian beliefs, attacks Israel, attacks America..
I mean after a while of trying to explain stuff and not have it sink..
one tends to become slightly more aggressive with their approach.
That is my own personal fault.

I would also like to say this, and this isn't an attack it's just truth.
Muslims believe that The Torah, and the bible have been altered by man too much.
This is basically implying that,
God allowed Jews and Gentiles to be mislead by mortals who decided to meddle with his teachings.
By having this belief, they are also implying that the Koran is God's pure and unaltered teachings,
while the other two books, the Torah and the Bible are no longer in this state because of man.

So basically...as I was trying to say before..
Muslims pretty much believe Judaism and Christianity are Bs.
If perhaps Muslims didn't have this certain mind set, then maybe I wouldn't be
so weary of them.

I'm going to end with this.
Being a believer in God is so difficult.
Ever since studying the word again,
and having points about our beliefs brought up..
it's so hard to discern what is right what is wrong,
what is true and what is not.
There is a level of confusion in each book..
Let's look at this way..scholars still study these writings,
and all they really have are theories.
I do believe that all 3 beliefs are under one God
I just don't understand the division if we are all brothers.