Professional needed, why does overclocking CPU to certain ghz cause OS to fail, and..

[Dab]

Okay two questions.

Why does overclocking my AMD FX 8320 beyond 4.22 ghz cause the OS to not start (win10).

Why does Park Control when enabling Frequency scaling DC while AC is turned off crash my OS when minimizing my game and doing something else with it running?

Also, parkcontrol says it's only running 4.20ghz out of 4.22ghz, I'm guessing at most it reaches is 4.20 for meme status or some stupid shit. So what the fucks up with my cpu? Why can't I overclock it to 5.0ghz like other people claim to do.


and when is the new Zen cpus coming out... I'm really tired of shit performance due to incompetent programming and unoptimized / non-multi threaded games.

[Drama]

Temps? are you able to track what they're at?

[Dab]

Temps? are you able to track what they're at?

Yeah they are extremely low compared to my other builds. I have an aqua cooler, my CPU never reaches 50c or above. It's always in the 30-40 range under workload, idling its 15-20c which is insane in my experience.

I've done a lot of research online but never could figure this out. I've tried increasing my voltage but that never worked. Other people on the internet have claimed the same issue I have, 4.22 being the max stable overclock until the CPU causes windows not to load. While others have claimed to overclock safely to 5.0ghz

Also, I've stress tested 4.20 and 4.22 and they have the exact same results, I believe my cpu is literally max locked at 4.20 ghz for whatever reason. I've went all through my bios, absolutely nothing I can figure out to fix this issue. Task manager, everything tells me it's max is 4.20. There is no performance difference from 4.20 and 4.22 that I've noticed either.

I'm not sure if it's my motherboard (gigabyte, can't remember the exact model) or if it's just shit hardware, which it is but it shouldn't be locked at 4.20

[Walkyr]

It's all Silicon Lottery. It depends on how far you can push it. Some you can overclock to 5GHz, some you can't overclock at all. You probably just got a bad CPU that can run Windows Stable at a fairly low overclock but not more.

[Dab]

It's all Silicon Lottery. It depends on how far you can push it. Some you can overclock to 5GHz, some you can't overclock at all. You probably just got a bad CPU that can run Windows Stable at a fairly low overclock but not more.

This is what my AMD partners said, they've basically told me 100 times that despite hardware being "identical" it can have a drastic difference in how much you can overclock it... I still have 0 idea how or why this is, and I'd really like to know. Is it the card being used before or something? Has the things inside started to change shape because of friction? Wtf is the problem here?


I originally thought about a year ago, the GHZ clock speed and amount of cores was all that matter. Hens why I ended up with this FX 8320 for a year. After realizing it was absolute and utter trash compared to my 6600k which even at base clock was performing 30fps more in heavy end emulation (nearly 100% dependent on core performance of cpu).


I guess I'm really just stuck with this terrible performance for unoptimized games. I don't want to waste money on an intel cpu when the new Zen architecture is suppose to be vastly superior. Hopefully it comes out before December.

[Walkyr]

Wtf Is The Problem Here?

As said before. All Silicon Lottery. Each and EVERY CPU has the identical looks and the "identical" parts, but they all perform differently because each and every CPU is so dense and compact made that even a machine can mess up at parts and for instance give no overclocking capability. But if you're lucky and the machine has done it perfectly (And I mean PERFECT), then you're capable of Overclocking up to 5GHz.

[Dab]

As said before. All Silicon Lottery. Each and EVERY CPU has the identical looks and the "identical" parts, but they all perform differently because each and every CPU is so dense and compact made that even a machine can mess up at parts and for instance give no overclocking capability. But if you're lucky and the machine has done it perfectly (And I mean PERFECT), then you're capable of Overclocking up to 5GHz.

So whats the exact problem here, believe me I've googled this tons of times, even asked on AMD forums but didn't get an adequate response.

Was I right in my assumption that the spinning parts even slightly heating up, or getting too much friction causes malfunctions in the hardware that somehow prevent it from overclocking? Is it an electricity problem, is it an input or output problem? Got any idea?

[Walkyr]

Probably just a bad CPU you got. I really can't tell you other then it's pure lottery on what CPU you're getting. Probably a more "generic" structure of a CPU where the CPU probably isn't capable of handling that amount of GHz.

If you're looking for a exact problem....well really the only way to tell you is that you got a Potato CPU. It's worse with the overvolting and putting out more then generic amount of Baseclock.

[Dab]

Probably just a bad CPU you got. I really can't tell you other then it's pure lottery on what CPU you're getting. Probably a more "generic" structure of a CPU where the CPU probably isn't capable of handling that amount of GHz.

If you're looking for a exact problem....well really the only way to tell you is that you got a Potato CPU. It's worse with the overvolting and putting out more then generic amount of Baseclock.

Well it's definitely got me interested. I might eventually take my entire desktop to the AMD place and test it against another same model cpu.

I'd really like to know, how in the fuck or why the fuck cpus got to be like this. Can't they just build competent hardware? I really hope that new zen is going to be worth the wait.

[Walkyr]

I'd Really Like To Know, How In The Fuck Or Why The Fuck Cpus Got To Be Like This. Can't They Just Build Competent Hardware? I Really Hope That New Zen Is Going To Be Worth The Wait.

Intel's the same. You get 6700K that can overclock to 4.7GHz and you get 6700K that can overclock to 4.1GHz. It's all luck based on how good your CPU is. It's all dependent on how the quality of the materials used on that specific processor is used. If everything is properly high quality, then you can expect a good CPU. If there are already some slightly aged products and the machine maybe doesn't perfect it as the other machines do, then expect a worse CPU.

[Dab]

Intel's the same. You get 6700K that can overclock to 4.7GHz and you get 6700K that can overclock to 4.1GHz. It's all luck based on how good your CPU is. It's all dependent on how the quality of the materials used on that specific processor is used. If everything is properly high quality, then you can expect a good CPU. If there are already some slightly aged products and the machine maybe doesn't perfect it as the other machines do, then expect a worse CPU.

Okay this helps a lot. So it's the manufactures fault. Now, another question: Who makes the hardware? Is it the producers like XFX, Saphire, etc...? I guess for cpus it's different, are they all made by AMD, different AMD places?

This seems like a problem of incompetence, I'm thinking about taking this to court.

[Walkyr]

This Seems Like A Problem Of Incompetence, I'm Thinking About Taking This To Court.

No chance for you to win. Everybody is accepting this problem of Silicon Lottery. Companies never give guarantee that you can overclock the CPU by a lot. It just so happens that the people can overclock their certain CPU to a specific level. Yours cant.

I Guess For Cpus It's Different, Are They All Made By AMD, Different AMD Places?

Designed by AMD, manufactured by TSMC.

[Dab]

No chance for you to win. Everybody is accepting this problem of Silicon Lottery. Companies never give guarantee that you can overclock the CPU by a lot. It just so happens that the people can overclock their certain CPU to a specific level. Yours cant.



Designed by AMD, manufactured by TSMC.

But that's not right, it may sound childish but If I had a billion dollars I could fucking fight this and get legislation passed on these businesses saying all of their products have to be capable of doing X Y Z.... What you're telling me is fucking bullshit lol... if AMD Design somethings, TSMC better fucking manufacture it ALL the same way, and the best way. This isn't the food industry, this is technology.

If I give you a TV that only has RG and no B colors, then that wont get put on the shelf. If I give you a TV that has RGB colors like every other TV, then that gets put on the shelf.

this term you coined as the "silicon lottery" needs to be addressed asap. I'm going to write a bunch of emails to california senators, mayors, whoever I can find. I'm mad.

[Aborted]

But that's not right, it may sound childish but If I had a billion dollars I could fucking fight this and get legislation passed on these businesses saying all of their products have to be capable of doing X Y Z.... What you're telling me is fucking bullshit lol... if AMD Design somethings, TSMC better fucking manufacture it ALL the same way, and the best way. This isn't the food industry, this is technology.

Overclocking is beyond factory set standards, so there's really nothing you can do. Nowhere do they advertise or directly state that overclocking to any specified quantity is guaranteed on purchase or warranty.

If I give you a TV that only has RG and no B colors, then that wont get put on the shelf. If I give you a TV that has RGB colors like every other TV, then that gets put on the shelf.

Yes, but you are still getting all of your RGB, you're just not getting a magical 4th color that may or may not appear when tweaking certain settings with TVs that got lucky during production. If they explicitly advertise a 4th pixel color, and then don't provide it, then that's a different story all together. Overclocking is not guaranteed (even AMD 'Boost' has fine print behind it), and was really originally a product of consumers trying themselves to squeeze performance, and is inherently inconsistent.

Not even that, but the whole 'silicon lottery' thing is way overplayed; in my experience, overheating and inconsistent voltages have far more effect on whether or not an OC is stable on program and OS side. And when I say overheating, I don't just mean the CPU itself, I'm talking MOSFET's, which can get dangerously hot on boards that aren't designed to OC, and clocking themselves down as a result, or just crashing all together. Same thing with voltages, crappy boards can feed voltages wildly inconsistently, and cause a lot of problems.

If the problem doesn't come from voltage failures or overheating due to overclocking, then it can also come from the overclocking itself. That problem comes from miswrites (more accurately from misreads stemming from miswrites).

Everything your CPU does is on a timer, in fact everything your entire PC does is on a timer. Your RAM has mem timings, and your CPU runs on CPU time. The further you stretch a part's designed speed and performance, you risk throwing off its timing. Every MHz faster means faster calculations, and a faster stopwatch to keep them in time. When a miswrite takes place, it also means there will be a misread when your CPU tries to access the information from RAM. Of course when the corrupted info is read by an OS or Application, it can spell certain doom for the active instance, and flop dead on the ground as it crashes.


Edit: I've thought of a great analogy:

Imagine a company needs a very fast typist, to transpose words into a text file. The typist knows his limits, and at 100WPM he knows he can type accurately 100% of the time. The boss wants more performance though, so he pushes him to 110WPM. The typer knows he will begin making mistakes, but not all that often, maybe one mistake per few thousand words. He can work hours, maybe even days without messing up, but he knows he runs the risk, and eventually will. The boss comes back again and wants even more speed, 120WPM this time. He sends out his transcriptions faster, but at every ramp up in speed he makes more mistakes and at a greater rate. Eventually his boss has him typing at 150WPM, making the transcriptions faster than ever, but he makes far more mistakes now, and it only takes a sentence or two for him to fail.

Every one of those failures is a crash, and the more you overclock, the higher the risk. Having a good board, having good cooling, having quality RAM, and getting lucky with the CPU will all lower the risk, and allow for higher stable overclocks.

[Walkyr]

I'm Going To Write A Bunch Of Emails To California Senators, Mayors, Whoever I Can Find. I'm Mad.

As Aborted already stated (Thanks a lot for all that text), AMD is basically telling that you can overclock it and they guarantee that you CAN squeeze some performance out. But how much, nobody writes. Even Intel doesn't write how much you can squeeze out of a Intel i7 4790. Some get 5GHz out of that sucker, some just get a 0.1GHz Boost. They don't guarantee overclocking because of reasons like this. They always try to stay at a lowest and most stable clock where ALL CPUs can run at. (May it be barely or with a lot of room)