Israel Is Suck
If we read this in context: "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9).
1"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.
2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
4"And you know the way where I am going."
5.Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?"
6.Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."
8.Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
9.Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
This statement is correct, every prophet in his time was the way, the truth and the life. No man came unto God but through the teaching of the prophet of that time. It means that if you follow me, you are following God. So in the next statement Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, ".... He who has seen Me has seen the Father". Which means that if you follow my commandments, you are following the commandments of God. If you look at the context you'll see what he meant. Verse 2 says in my Father's house are many dwelling places, Jesus pbuh didn't say in MY house there are many dwelling places. According to the context he's speaking about God. In the context Jesus says I am the way and the truth, so if you follow my teachings, you are following the teachings of God.
Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)
In context:
23.it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.
24.The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25.Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
26."But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27."My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28.and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30"I and the Father are one."
If you read these verses in context we come to know that in purpose Jesus pbuh and God are 1. Supose I am a dentist, and my father is a dentist and I say: I and my father are one. Does it mean me and my father are 1? No, it means we have the same profession so in purpose we are one. So if you say no they are one in person, that's fine, let's read further.
Ghospel of John 17:21"that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me."
He's speaking to the disciples and says that they are one with him. So if you say one in person you'd have to believe in 14 gods. So it means they all were one in purpose.
I think that's enough about the verses out of context. Now for the different forms in the Trinity. Water, Ice and Steam and all are H20. The forms keep on changing but it remains to be H20. Just like Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. So I agree on the part where only the form changes. Now, does the component change? Does H20 (Trinity) change? Father(God) and The Holy Ghost are made of Spirit, and human beings are made of flesh and bones. So there are not the same. Human beings require to eat, God does not require to eat to survive, so they are not the same.
And in Ghospel of Luke 24:39"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." After that Jesus pbuh also asked for food and ate, and God doesn't require to eat. Besides Trinity is never mentioned in the Bible. The word doesn't excist in the Bible.
John 5:30"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
I thought God can do All, but Jesus pbuh says: I can of mine own self do nothing. Not mine own will, but the Will of the Father, anybody who has submitted his will to God, in Arabic you call him as a Muslim. Jesus pbuh was a Muslim, he submitted his will to God.
Last edited by jwtog; 11-22-2010 at 09:58 AM.
No..Jesus was not a Muslim.
You can believe whatever you like dude..
I don't really care. I've already debated the trinity thing so many times.
Honestly you guys all present the same arguments..
and it doesn't matter how many times they get refuted,
it always seems to come back.
Every Islam vs. Western World thread gets turned into this:
Islam kids: "Nuh uh Bible is altered, Jesus just a prophet"
Christian kids: " k..bro here is some scripture that predates your own by centuries"
Atheists: w/e.
Look at the name of the thread..not even sure how this even got to A Christian/ Islam discussion, but it happens constantly.
Jesus pbuh submitted his will to God correct? Then he was a Muslim, because a Muslim is a person who has submitted his will to God, Agree?
Because I don't understand why people think trinity when reading the bible, I don't get that idea when reading?
And I never said the Bible has been altered. Jesus pbuh is not JUST a prophet, he was one of the MIGHTIEST prophets.
One more question to you before we go on topic.
Why should something that is difficult to understand, which most people claim to be too big for humans to understand lead to salvation? Almighty God is not the author of confusion is he? Salvation should be a clear concept, clear things to follow. So why should something this difficult to understand lead to salvation?
1 Changing water into wine
2 Healing of the royal official's son
3 Healing of the Capernaum demoniac
4 Healing of Peter's mother-in-law
5 Catching a large number of fish
6 Healing a leper
7 Healing a centurion's servant
8 Healing a paralytic
9 Healing a withered hand
10 Raising a widow's son
11 Calming the stormy sea
12 Healing the Gerasene demoniac
13 Healing a woman with internal bleeding
14 Raising Jairus' daughter
15 Healing two blind men
16 Healing a mute demoniac
17 Healing a 38 year invalid
18 Feeding 5000 men and their families
19 Walking on water
20 Healing a demoniac girl
21 Healing a deaf man with a speech impediment
22 Feeding the 4000 men and their families
23 Healing a blind man
24 Healing a man born blind
25 Healing a demoniac boy
26 Catching a fish with a coin in its mouth
27 Healing a blind and mute demoniac
28 Healing a woman with an 18 year infirmity
29 Healing a man with dropsy
30 Healing 10 lepers
31 Raising of Lazarus
32 Healing Bartimaeus of blindness
33 Restoring a severed ear
34 Catching a great number of fish
Find me a prophet that has done all these things,
and we can call this debate over.